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Topic: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn (Read 24014 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #45 –
FMD - if we won last week and this week, we’d still be second.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #46 –
Quote from: JonDorotich – on
It’s not just injuries

Our list lacks athleticism/power and pace.
Key defensive stocks shot, 5-10 players completely overpaid and injury prone and we lack ticker.
Voss gameplan was cut to ribbons by a far better coach.
Miles off I’m afraid
All on the trading block to clean this up
All too true, alas. This time last year, our 2nd tier players stood up. This year, very few of them have made the sort of performance we require.
[1] Injuries: we've had more than anyone else but Richmond. It makes a difference.
But what was worse was that we rushed guys back into the team after long breaks who were severely underdone. That is not smart management.
[2] Last year a lot of guys stepped up and saved their careers. This year, most of them have gone backwards. Our small forwards were dynamic and made the play; this year, nada. Boyd, Fogarty, Martin, Motlop, these guys have barely fired a shot in the last 6 weeks. Last year Cuningham looked to have made it: now he is almost certainly out the door.
[3] Marc Pittonet: Early 2022 Pitto was the most effective ruckman in the competition, up until he was injured. Last year he was solid. This year ... He isn't getting the taps to advantage and is not beating guys he would have murdered last year. He rarely had anyone take marks against him in early 20222 and for much of last year. Now?
It has really hurt our midfield setup and exposed our lack of pace.
[4] Our general lack of athleticism: lots of other teams appear to have a lot better levels of athleticism than we do. It was really clear today where our lack of pace was exposed. Our lack of desire ... we don't often see that, but we could be accused of that today. We wouldn't man up.
[5] Our game plan: other seem to have worked out our game plan, which hasn't held up under pressure. That is never been Voss's strength. We really need to get someone in with the ability to make a strategic move midgame and to pick apart other teams'  plans.

In conclusion, we don't deserve to be in the finals this year. We need to start making plans for next year, and trading out players has to be among those plans. We need players with extreme pace. We need players who can hit targets: that was one of the main differences today between us and Hawthorn. We need a 2nd key defender. We need small forwards who get where the ball is, not where it isn't. We need a fitter, faster line-up and we need to be able to adjust our battle plan. And, most importantly, we need a fitness guy who can get us on the park. We haven't had a full list to select from since early 1996: that's 28 years!
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #47 –
Watching at the ground today you can see why our defence gets attacked.

At no point did we ever look like manning up.

Early on it was McGovern playing loose and Kemp/Weitering playing man on man. Problem is, he plays too loose. He lets a player come into his zone and hangs about 20m off them expected to get there for the intercept. Their good kicking meant he was always 2-5m away when they took the uncontested mark.

One time McGovern went off at Kemp because McGovern had to 'cover his man', but his man was there for 30 seconds before he decided to go pick him up.....casually jogged over to him while the ball was kicked over his head and straight to him. Me and my mate were laughing at the lack of urgency from McGovern and then the balls to call out your teammate after you made basically no effort. Kemp had been on a run through the middle before, but shouldn't have been expected to come back that quick. 100% McGoverns fault, but Kemp copped the spray.

Later on, when he was injured and got moved forward, there was almost no loose man there was still loose players roaming forward casually without anyone close to them.

It happened all over the ground. Loose men everywhere. The amount of times we were dawdling behind play made me wonder why we bothered turning up at all. Too many disinterested players.

You can see why everyone loves Acres though, even with a busted shoulder he still was one of the first ones back every time.
Ollie Hollands wasn't too bad either.

We lacked a lot of speed today, we lacked fit bodies, but we lacked heart and hunger more IMO.

Worst performance by this group under voss when arguably it was one of our most important.
To surrender the points is 1 thing. To surrender over 8% points is another.

Vossy ain't going to go easy on the boys after this one.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #48 –
I'm glad you put McG under the spotlight Kruds, the $#@! has been a problem for years.  We certainly didn't get what we thought we were buying when we shelled out for this fraud.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #49 –
We actually did ok in the hitouts and stoppages where it was even in the main, our troubles came when the ball was in open play where we fooled around with it too much, turned it over and ended up chasing tail and getting caught by the harder working Hawks on the overlap and eventually we stopped chasing and then ran out of gas completely when the bench was so depleted.
Didnt see Pittonet as a bad player and I thought he broke even with Meek who has been dominating, both he and the maligned often dropped, often made sub Kennedy can hold their heads up as players who fought it out imo.
re: Voss....normally Id question his tactics and lacks of moves but I thought we were out worked and were happy to play a non physical keepings off game where we couldnt generate enough run to penetrate the Hawks defense but took the easy short kick in an arc around the 50m mark racking up stats but going nowhere apart from when Cripps tried to do too much out of frustration and barge his way through their defense.
Lot of talk about Russell but there needs to be more talk about the list management and composition of the list and lack of depth.
A lot of these injury prone players were injury prone when they were recruited and thats where the mistakes where made....
The midfield needs an overhaul and while you always need contested players we need contested players with pace and who kick goals......

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #50 –
The first person who should front up to the CEO and President tomorrow morning, is the Head of Football. Been a problem for years.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #51 –
It didn't even look like we were trying.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #52 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
The first person who should front up to the CEO and President tomorrow morning, is the Head of Football. Been a problem for years.

Yep, was lucky to keep his job last year (and/or the year before??)
Time to go now.
Cmon Cook, time to dig out the roledex and find us someone worthy to fill the role.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #53 –
Who is it currently?
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #54 –
We played in a Prelim last year but we had Doc, Cerra, TDK, Martin, Cottrell in good form fit and healthy.

Walshy is out of form he is that line breaking goal kicking mid and is a good one at that.. healthiest and strongest list that have been together for a while win flags enter Geelong and Collingwood.. we are almost there just need better luck or better management to improve the health of players so the team can build cohesion.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #55 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
We actually did ok in the hitouts and stoppages where it was even in the main, our troubles came when the ball was in open play where we fooled around with it too much, turned it over and ended up chasing tail and getting caught by the harder working Hawks on the overlap and eventually we stopped chasing and then ran out of gas completely when the bench was so depleted.
Didnt see Pittonet as a bad player and I thought he broke even with Meek who has been dominating, both he and the maligned often dropped, often made sub Kennedy can hold their heads up as players who fought it out imo.
re: Voss....normally Id question his tactics and lacks of moves but I thought we were out worked and were happy to play a non physical keepings off game where we couldnt generate enough run to penetrate the Hawks defense but took the easy short kick in an arc around the 50m mark racking up stats but going nowhere apart from when Cripps tried to do too much out of frustration and barge his way through their defense.
Lot of talk about Russell but there needs to be more talk about the list management and composition of the list and lack of depth.
A lot of these injury prone players were injury prone when they were recruited and thats where the mistakes where made....
The midfield needs an overhaul and while you always need contested players we need contested players with pace and who kick goals......

As far as depth went we had a bucketful injuries this year and still managed to sit 2nd.  Depth is ok. The problem is this constant barrage of injuries had been happening for years. Not just this year or this game  Russell's been there for 6 of them. It's no coincidence that 4 of the last 5 years we have a shot at the 8 earlier, on a shot at a flag  this year, as you are when you 2nd for so long, then crash in a heap games out. As happens when  with injuries you run out of fitness at the end of a long year. More disappointing given we were a genuine threat 6 weeks ago. Who saw this when we sat 2nd then kicked 8.4 in the first qtr against GWS.

Stings more this year as we had such hope.


Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #56 –
Quote from: laj – on
As far as depth went we had a bucketful injuries this year and still managed to sit 2nd.  Depth is ok. The problem is this constant barrage of injuries had been happening for years. Not just this year or this game  Russell's been there for 6 of them. It's no coincidence that 4 of the last 5 years we have a shot at the 8 earlier, on a shot at a flag  this year, as you are when you 2nd for so long, then crash in a heap games out. As happens when  with injuries you run out of fitness at the end of a long year. More disappointing given we were a genuine threat 6 weeks ago. Who saw this when we sat 2nd then kicked 8.4 in the first qtr against GWS.

Stings more this year as we had such hope.



Injuries for sure but Id question effort today and in some of our other losses,  plus Im not sold on our list as far as depth....zero key position depth apart from a kid(Lemmey) who hasnt shown a lot and Young whose form has tapered like Joe Bidens memory.
Too many winger types imo and then we have the much talked about continual injury prone section of the list who are contantly unavailable and leave you with a huge hole every year and then I read we are going to recruit another injury prone slow undersized 3rd tall defender in Nick Haynes, we can give him Marchbanks number/locker and bed in the medical room because thats where he will spend most of his time....we are slow learners.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #57 –
Quote from: pinot – on
We played in a Prelim last year but we had Doc, Cerra, TDK, Martin, Cottrell in good form fit and healthy.

Walshy is out of form he is that line breaking goal kicking mid and is a good one at that.. healthiest and strongest list that have been together for a while win flags enter Geelong and Collingwood.. we are almost there just need better luck or better management to improve the health of players so the team can build cohesion.

Unfortunately we’re not almost there

We simply can’t rely on the availability of marchbank, docherty, McGovern, Williams, Cunningham, Martin, with serious question marks emerging over Cerra, Boyd, C Durdin and Saad.

It would be delusional to think that you can compete, whilst consistently having at least 6 players drawing a starting 22 wage but spending a majority of their year in the stands - at least 4 have to go, period. Then you’ve got the list cloggers like Fantasia, Young, S Durdin etc on top.

Whilst we’re carrying 6-10 injury prone players and 4-5 list cloggers nowhere near AFL standard we’ll remain in the wilderness.

Obviously the big issue is that most of those injury prone players have no currency so it’s back to the AFL draft lottery or drafting VFL types, which is risky. It seems that we’ll need a combination of delistings and trading 1-2 players with currency to get something back.

It all feels like a long term project which is depressing

Re: AFL Rd 22 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #59 –
I flew out for Europe on the 29th June after we handed out consecutive 10 goal floggings sitting pretty in second, I thought life was good. I returned last night to watch us capitulate out of the 8 today (We have gone LLWLLL).
I can't see us winning the next two, if you had have told me on the 1st of July we would miss the 8 I would have laughed in your face.
I dont know what else to say, I cannot understand or pinpoint what has gone wrong, perhaps last year was indeed as good as it gets for the this group.
There needs to be a clean out of blokes who cannot stay out on the park (we all know who they are) and replace them with anyone with a pulse and who can play more than 1 in a row.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership