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Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #30 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Just having a look at the team stats
It looked bad watching but…
We were trounced on the stat sheet as well
The only ones we won were the stoppage clearances (just) and the tackles (that’s because they had the ball)…and the free kicks for...oh and the turnovers, we won that one too.
Lost the ruck contests 45-19- O’ Brien had 40 to DeKoning’s 16

On the individual stats-just don’t look, there is nothing of joy there.

I saw limited parts of the game, what I managed to watch, De Koning was terrible. When he plays like that I am happy for him to take the money and run TBH.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #31 –
Once again they were bigger, stronger and faster than us and had more desire. Once again our planning for Dawson, Walker, Fogarty & Keays was poor.

Whilst Adelaide had a couple of players missing, our list depth is by far the worst in the AFL with far too much invested in too few, who deliver highly inconsistent output and effort - we need to address through trade, most probably starting with TDK. We need to trade our top end talent to address the problem and make calls on ageing players sooner. We also need to address the lack of fast and strong players on our list. A Michael Conlon (of near!) would be great along with some genuinely fast half backs.

So many issues to address!

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #32 –
Crows have a nice collection of taller young kids in Curtin , Worrall and Michal anney down back .They are mobile ,decent at ground level and play with maturity.
Dawson is under rated as a midfielder imo and their three imports from last seasons trade period have improved their depth.
They should play finals with the list they have and at home they are hard work for any team to knock over.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #33 –
Crows in Adelaide and Brisbane at the Gabba are two fixtures you want to avoid.

Its rare as hens teeth you watch our mob lose the contested possession and clearance battle.

Made it worse our bottom five small amigos just didnt get the basics right applying pressure and sticking their tackles.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Well, now to go watch Vossy's blue skies and fairy floss media conference. No doubt there'll be the minimizing of issues chucked in for good measure.

Got that wrong... sort of.
Certainly no blue skies and fairy floss, but when questioned by someone in the media group on faith in the system, Vossy said (paraphrased) that faith was based on the body of work (not one game), therefore our faith is strong as the body of work is very good. Not buying it, Vossy. Time to take off the 'denial' glasses. Let's have a closer look at our 'body of work.'

Yes, our body of work over, let's say the last 15 or so games, defensively, is pretty good with no major blowouts (until yesterday) and limiting opposition sides to modest scores. Not great, but maybe very good. And that's all we've got. Yes, we can lose games by hold the opposition to a modest score - but we lost. Reality. Yes, we can lead at half time in many games, but still lose. Reality. We've played 32 quarters of footy so far this year, won 15 (8 of those wins against the Tiggers, Weagles and Kangabies), lost 17 qtrs (7 winning qtrs against quality opposition).

If you really want feedback on the body of work, look at our last 15 games, (or even just this season broken down above), and then check out the Ws and Ls. Clearly there's an issue or five. Ladder position feedback is very clear and precise - it strips away potential, what you're getting right or doing well and just gives you the facts. And if our 'system' is not holding up in the Magoos as well... holy mackerel.

I get the argument of having a settled back seven, midfield and front half. But what if you've got a few out-of-form or not-up-to-it lads in the group you're trying to 'settle?'

End of the world? Nuh. End of our season? Hell no. Well, not if we're honest with ourselves and understand change is needed. Not drastic or major change, but our 'system;' our defensive style focus aint delivering. We really do need a creative tweak. Because whatever we're locked in on at the moment, it's tired and apparently, too easily countered by those willing and able to hunt and pressure us.

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #35 –
I reckon we've lost a lot of depth and maturity in our play in defence and this area needs addressing very quickly end of season.
We're still a tall/heavier bodied defender shy of balance - I'll grant JSoS was missing.
Young is trier at best, so slow to react to situations that require fast descion not hesitation.
Haynes has been better recently but he is at best a stop gap at what, 33?
Saad is clearly in decline, the blind dump kicks are now the norm and they really hurt us. Time to transition a replacement.
We desperately miss Newy but he's no spring chicken either, and coming off a knee doesn't instill confidence. No guarantees there.
MacGovern is an unreliable "non bankable" player whose mistakes really hurt us.  The kind of mistakes a senior player shouldn't make.  So frequently caught out of position.
Williams can't play in defence because he can't defend and sh1ts himself in the air.  So don't count on in him in defence.
Docherty - sad to say but the game has moved on. Clearly time to groom a replacement.
I don't see much offensive rebound in the above, pace or quality ball movement these days.  Then there's a defender's primary function...defending, or at least being in the right place for the team defensive set up.

So where's our defence at in say two years? Cowan? Carroll?
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #36 –
We were smashed in the stoppages, midfield and in F50 resulting in our depleted defence being put under massive pressure.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #37 –
I like Voss' approach. We can only go by his public statements. What he says behind closed doors is anyone's guess. If you don't have belief in your players, in your system etc, then you are defeated before you even cross the line. It's a bit like Malthouse with his now infamous comment about not seeing where we can lose a game : it's about mindset. Voss' comments (echoed by various experts in the media) that defensively we are pretty solid, and the tough stuff around the ball is also pretty solid, but that taking the next step is proving elusive. Voss was happy to admit that yesterday was a stinker, but you don't throw out 2 seasons of finals (and one near miss in 2022) after one lousy game. But no doubt, as far as this season is concerned, time is running out.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #38 –
Lose to the sniffers and it's game over season 2025. Reality.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #39 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I like Voss' approach. We can only go by his public statements. What he says behind closed doors is anyone's guess. If you don't have belief in your players, in your system etc, then you are defeated before you even cross the line. It's a bit like Malthouse with his now infamous comment about not seeing where we can lose a game : it's about mindset. Voss' comments (echoed by various experts in the media) that defensively we are pretty solid, and the tough stuff around the ball is also pretty solid, but that taking the next step is proving elusive. Voss was happy to admit that yesterday was a stinker, but you don't throw out 2 seasons of finals (and one near miss in 2022) after one lousy game. But no doubt, as far as this season is concerned, time is running out.

When Voss says the things he says (belief in players/systems  etc) who is he addressing.
Obviously he's answering a journos question and there may be an attempt to stifle any criticism from that area.
That's futile.

His greater target is probably the members and supporters
"Stick with us" kind of stuff
I think the problem is that there comes a point where those members and supporters don't buy that anymore...and there are definite issues, which of course he is reluctant to reveal publicly.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #40 –
We are a medium slowish squad that relies on work ethic and 100% output to remain competitive.

If we can't apply the pressure, and you can't apply pressure if you can't keep up with play, you'll always be in trouble.

98% performance gets you honourable losses in AFL.

There was a moment in the 3rd or 4th quarter that told the tale. I think it was OH or EH that had the footy at CHB and the Foxtel broadcast showed the long view from behind the kicker. You could see a Crow's KPD start sprinting towards where the ball was about to be kicked 5s before any Carlton player reacted, that is how predictable we can be to our opponents, and worse still it highlights how our own team barely reacted!

A big 2 or 3 weeks, a great effort, and the run diminishes 1% or 2% and you look 2m behind at the contest. It impacts our slower players, and it impacts players like TDK who rely on run / mobility as a primary weapon.

We need a Plan B to win games ugly, because the run and gun game is not sustainable for our list.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #41 –
Quote from: Lods – on
When Voss says the things he says (belief in players/systems  etc) who is he addressing.
Obviously he's answering a journos question and there may be an attempt to stifle any criticism from that area.
That's futile.

His greater target is probably the members and supporters
"Stick with us, kind of stuff"
I think the problem is that there comes a point where those members and supporters don't buy that anymore...and there are definite issues, which of course he is reluctant to reveal publicly.

I would hazard a guess and say he has a few stakeholders in mind, and each of those groups will take what they want from his comments : journalists, fans, players, assistant coaches, Board, Admin, maybe even himself.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, results exist at two different time scales : the shorter term, where you ride the bumps and emotional highs and lows with each game, and the longer term, where you accept the reality of the AFL being incredibly tough, the margins are very tight, differences between first and last are not as great as people imagine, and all clubs are working towards the same goal, within cap constraints, draft constraints etc. I've said it before, but the AFL IMO is a complex system, and there's only a few things that a coach, player etc can really control. I will also restate my belief that it's easier (not easy) for top teams to remain top teams than it is for bottom or middle teams to become top teams. For all these reasons I'm ok with our reality, whatever it may bring.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #42 –
I'm not reading much into it until after next week. If we win that then it was a case of being just physically knackered after the Geelong game. That was brutal. If not, then it's obviously something else.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #43 –
Crap list management coupled with poor talent identification = season over !!
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: AFL Rd 8 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #44 –
Quote from: laj – on
I'm not reading much into it until after next week. If we win that then it was a case of being just physically knackered after the Geelong game. That was brutal. If not, then it's obviously something else.
Can't be one week on and one week off..Saints are rubbish, I'd expect to beat them purely on the talent difference.