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Topic: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon (Read 10673 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #30 –
I don't think we're taking the foot off, we are getting run over every week. It's a fitness issue.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #31 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
I don't think we're taking the foot off, we are getting run over every week. It's a fitness issue.
I don't think we run out of gas so much - it's just that we have very little speed in the first place, and once teams get a running game going against us, we have almost no counter-punch.

I get so mad watching our forwards guarding grass and letting opposition defenders have unpressured disposal and room to run.  Our forward half pressure is almost non-existent, and we invite running teams to have a crack at us.  

Get up in their grills and challenge them to kick better when someone's actually turning the screw on them, instead of pointing fingers and pretending you can cover 3 guys that you are 20 metres away from.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Micky0 – on
Quote from: Lods – on

The next couple of games should be wins.
If they are, and they're good wins it may be the confidence boost we need.
It may be three or four weeks before the real tests come.

North have some good tough players with Clarko coaching them, it will not surprise me to lose to them
Agree, everyone thinks Nth is a walkover but I think it's going to be difficult. They have a decent ruckman and unlike Essendon less of an injury list and I'd expect a physical game.
Port will be even harder on their home deck, and our interstate form is horrible.
Hopefully they get some injuries to their star mids and we can sneak a win but I'm not confident.



Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #33 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Hird blames Cerra's poor technique for getting polaxed.
media spin trying to prevent a suspension. 

The reality is Durham had no eyes for the ball and ironed out cerra and I found myself thinking our guys would never do that, and then wondered if that's why we get run over the way we do when the pressure goes up.

I agree that our players aren't fit enough.  They look gassed well and truly by the end of the game.

I think we are seeing the product of repeated injuries over time vs a competition who seem to have a core of players who dont suffer lengthy setbacks with injury like ours seem to.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Hird blames Cerra's poor technique for getting polaxed.
media spin trying to prevent a suspension. 

The reality is Durham had no eyes for the ball and ironed out cerra and I found myself thinking our guys would never do that, and then wondered if that's why we get run over the way we do when the pressure goes up.

I agree that our players aren't fit enough.  They look gassed well and truly by the end of the game.

I think we are seeing the product of repeated injuries over time vs a competition who seem to have a core of players who dont suffer lengthy setbacks with injury like ours seem to.
Durham lined Cerra up and had plenty of time to adjust his technique to prevent injury. Cerra looked stunned to me and I'm not sure what our medicos were thinking leaving him on the ground initially.
2 weeks for Durham imo.
Voss called it out as a black and white decision and said you can't do that stuff anymore.B. Scott said he never saw it and wouldn't comment...think he knows his man is getting a holiday.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #35 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
I don't think we're taking the foot off, we are getting run over every week. It's a fitness issue.
I don't think we run out of gas so much - it's just that we have very little speed in the first place, and once teams get a running game going against us, we have almost no counter-punch.

I get so mad watching our forwards guarding grass and letting opposition defenders have unpressured disposal and room to run.  Our forward half pressure is almost non-existent, and we invite running teams to have a crack at us. 

Get up in their grills and challenge them to kick better when someone's actually turning the screw on them, instead of pointing fingers and pretending you can cover 3 guys that you are 20 metres away from.
see when I watch us, i see us too quick to leave a man to pressure the ball carrier.  Thing is players tend to leave one spare over the top and take themselves out of the contest doing so, and ive never really understood why you would do this as you extract yourself from the equation too easily.  Sure that's easier to say from the stands, and I'm not sure what they see at ground level to play like this.

In soccer it depends on where the ball is but to coin a basketball term you dont instigate a full court press with one player.  You set the defensive line, and then position in shape and move up to apply pressure together.  The pitch in soccer is about space.  Afl doesn't operate the same as longer kicking can unlock space and there is more room to play through a press by inviting the pressure and a give and go handball.  Still I wonder if that isnt the idea.  You minimise space and one thing you do is let the defense have the ball in their backline.  You defend at about the half way line because that means you can compress the space more efficiently by only having to defend 2/3 of the ground and dont start pressing up until about the edge of the centre square into he opposition half.   Defenders generally use it poorly anyway with safer ball movement unless they're elite. 

At afl level you can get cut up from anywhere though.   I get the idea that your specific criticism arrives froma. Man on Man style game rather than more modern nuance.


"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #36 –
Much needed win. Not especially convincing, but the 4 points don’t discriminate. I thought the boys dug deep and were at least determined to fight it out to the death. We lead the entire match.

Some off the cuff thoughts :

- umpiring was appalling. And this is coming from someone who mostly gives them the BOD
- to the Charlie haters, sorry, but I’m not with you. He is a jet, who is probably injured, and undoubtedly out of form. Also not convinced that he and McKay play better when the other is missing.
- Ollie Hollands is emerging as a very good player. Elite gut running. Disposal and decision making on the improve.
- Cripps quiet by his standards. Walsh still scratchy. Cerra and Hewett continuing their good form. 
- Orazio played a minor role. Nothing too terrible, nothing too amazing. Contrary to popular opinion, in my best 22.
- Thought Saad was okay.
- De Koning very good match.
- Jack Silvagni is a star in defence, despite the uncharacteristic OOF.
- Nick Haynes has been an astute pick up by Austin. Does mostly good things, mixed in with the odd wonky moment.
- I want to know what happened to the real Blake Acres. This AI generated current version must surely be an imposter. What happened to the 2023 Blake ? The big, strong one who effortlessly broke tackles, kicked great goals, took goal saving marks right on the goal line etc ? Where has he gone ?
- Motlop good game, maybe his best.
- Zac Williams is out best small forward.
- Good debut by Hudson O’Keefe.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #37 –
We won. That's good, regardless of the opposition.

However... there's how we won... impressive in some respects, but same old, same old in other respects. When the opposition brings heat or something different, we still take too long to adjust and assert. Or, perhaps more importantly, fail to bring our best, with persistence, consistently - above the shoulders. Especially after half time.

Glad to see us apply better system going forward, now to apply that for four quarters, with authority and confidence. Also glad to see us throw the aggott around more, making the ground bigger... and, again, now to apply that for four quarters, with authority and confidence.

Rapt to see HOK do well. He's a ripper. Pleasing to see Mots step up, and to see him around the goals... where he should be. Pleasing to see Cinc take care of Merrett, his defensive excellence has been sorely missed. Interesting that when Walsh and Cripps go off the boil (2nd and 3rd qtrs), so does the whole side!! Williams is a huge upgrade on Durdin (reckon Durdin just might be a potential lockdown small defender on dangerous oppo small forwards... can tackle and get over the grass quickly).

Bottom line? We're still a good ordinary side until we show otherwise - by beating top 8 sides.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #38 –
Agree with those who question our lack of fitness. Last night it was quite obvious we started to run out of gas about halfway through the 2Q. We then became more susceptible to pressure and started making a lot more mistakes. Gutsy win in the end, by the skin of our teeth.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #39 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
see when I watch us, i see us too quick to leave a man to pressure the ball carrier.  Thing is players tend to leave one spare over the top and take themselves out of the contest doing so, and ive never really understood why you would do this as you extract yourself from the equation too easily.  Sure that's easier to say from the stands, and I'm not sure what they see at ground level to play like this.

I understand this observation, but i disagree.

Last night was actually a perfect example of that.
How did we get out to the lead? By doing exactly this.

Keep pressuring the ball carrier to make a forced handball to the +1, do that enough times and eventually they will stuff one up and turn it over.

How many times last night did the commentators say they gave 1 too many handballs. That is why. Pressure, pressure, pressure.

Bombers folded under pressure early.

Some better teams make be better equiped to deal with the pressure and hurt us more, but we'll cross that bridge...

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #40 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
media spin trying to prevent a suspension. 

The reality is Durham had no eyes for the ball and ironed out cerra and I found myself thinking our guys would never do that, and then wondered if that's why we get run over the way we do when the pressure goes up.

I agree that our players aren't fit enough.  They look gassed well and truly by the end of the game.

I think we are seeing the product of repeated injuries over time vs a competition who seem to have a core of players who dont suffer lengthy setbacks with injury like ours seem to.
Durham lined Cerra up and had plenty of time to adjust his technique to prevent injury. Cerra looked stunned to me and I'm not sure what our medicos were thinking leaving him on the ground initially.
2 weeks for Durham imo.
Voss called it out as a black and white decision and said you can't do that stuff anymore.B. Scott said he never saw it and wouldn't comment...think he knows his man is getting a holiday.

Hird clearly has some bias in this instance.

That being said, back in Hirds day, he is spot on.

Its a problem with the modern game that people lead with their head. You need to protect yourself at all times.
"Never put your head where your butt will fit" is a Danny Frawley saying that is no longer apt in the modern game.

In the modern game, Cerra didn't do anything wrong. It will be a cut and dry suspension and we are 1 game closer to someone suffering a spinal injury due to the modern game.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #41 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Bottom line? We're still a good ordinary side until we show otherwise - by beating top 8 sides.

That's where I'm really struggling at the moment.
I don't know where we stand.
We lose to a Richmond, but we beat a Geelong
You watch the first quarter last night and we play football that would trouble most sides.
You watch the rest of the game and we struggle to beat a side missing many of their starting 22, but even with then they would probably be average at best.

There's a part of me that wants to know the real Carlton, warts and all, rather than these hot/cold efforts.
Even if that means disappointment for the rest of this season.
At least it will give us an opportuntity to try a few things that may be on hold at the moment because we're not totally out of it.


Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #42 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Agree with those who question our lack of fitness. Last night it was quite obvious we started to run out of gas about halfway through the 2Q. We then became more susceptible to pressure and started making a lot more mistakes. Gutsy win in the end, by the skin of our teeth.

I just think we lose focus, Fluffy One, once the opposition brings heat and/or something different... And that can look like fitness. If our fitness was not up to scratch, we'd have folded in the last qtr but were able to find more intensity especially from our mids.

Losing focus brings the opposition into the game. Such a brittle edge in the modern game... drop 3% and you're in the shizen. Plus I think we're 'bedding down' a much needed extra dimension to our game - better/more composed inside 50 entries, and making the ground bigger.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #43 –
Has jack solved our second key tall defender. abe nice if he was another 5cm taller but what he doesnt have in height he makes up in guts and determination to win or half every contest he is in.

Have a lot of respect for how he goes about it and deserves a decent increase on his contract and to not have to wait till the trade period. Show some loyalty and get it done now.

TDK is going to leave a massive hole. Adds a point of difference in a one paced midfield and not sure we get the points last night if you swapped Pit in for TDK

Charlie needs a royal boot up the ar5e. Has all the natural ability any tall forward has and more yet lops around with half ar5ed chases whenever the marking contest is over. Not worth hes pay packet, over rated and needs to look at how players like Mihocek, Cameron, Hogan go about it. they are team players our guy runs his own race and then laughs when he misses. He would be first for me on the trade trade but they wont do it.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #44 –
Quote from: Lods – on
That's where I'm really struggling at the moment.
I don't know where we stand.
We lose to a Richmond, but we beat a Geelong
You watch the first quarter last night and we play football that would trouble most sides.
You watch the rest of the game and we struggle to beat a side missing many of their starting 22, but even with then they would probably be average at best.

There's a part of me that wants to know the real Carlton, warts and all, rather than these hot/cold efforts.
Even if that means disappointment for the rest of this season.
At least it will give us an opportunity to try a few things that may be on hold at the moment because we're not totally out of it.

I think what you see is the real Carlton. We are a 50% side. In a general sense, two good quarters, then two shaky quarters, half our game is in good order, the other half is a work in progress. If you take the midpoint between 1st and 18th, you get 9th, which IMO is about right, and that finishing position may well be the best we can hope for this season.