Carlton Supporters Club

Whether or not these players can reach their previous lofty heights is IMO a secondary consideration. The real issue IMO is whether they can get back to playing consistent good quality football. I'd suggest plenty of good footballers are never even AA in the first place. The fall can be marginal, and can be recoverable. Hopefully the journey is not one way.

To put it another way, I still believe that Harry, Charlie, Walsh, Cripps, Weitering etc still have within them the potential to play much better than they're playing now. I don't believe they've fallen off a cliff.

Totally agree.
Part of the issue is that some of the players you mention (Weitering, Cripps) are forced to carry an extra load because of missing parts of the structure.
It also means they lack the support that would normally allow them to play their natural games.

McKay, Curnow and especially Walsh are injury carrying/ susceptible.
They're a different kettle of fish.
I'd add Jack to that list because he's become an important part of the defensive structure this year and a support for Weitering.
To me their effectiveness and returning to something approaching their best (and that includes their durability and consistency of performance) is very much a wait and see.

Quote from: Lods – on July 06, 2025, 04:45:17 pm

Totally agree.
Part of the issue is that some of the players you mention (Weitering, Cripps) are forced to carry an extra load because of missing parts of the structure.
It also means they lack the support that would normally allow them to play their natural games.

McKay, Curnow and especially Walsh are injury carrying/ susceptible.
They're a different kettle of fish.
I'd add Jack to that list because he's become an important part of the defensive structure this year and a support for Weitering.
To me their effectiveness and returning to something approaching their best (and that includes their durability and consistency of performance) is very much a wait and see.

That all sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Tend to agree.
The list definitely needs an overhaul. With the top end talent, some are getting near the end and tough calla need to be made (eg Doc), some may have injury concerns we don't know about (Crippa, Charlie).
The middle/bottom end needs a clean out. I would be cutting / trading in no particular order - Motlop, Fogarty, Evans, Fantasia, Acres, Williams, Young, Guv and O. Holland's.
I don't believe any of these players are the future. Cut deep now, rip off the band aid.

Quote from: Thryleon – on July 06, 2025, 12:51:29 pm

I cant fathom this never see it ever again. The guys we are talking about are 27 turning 28. 

Most players peak at these ages, and having an injury now isnt an indicator of the future.

Its so defeatist.

It's not defeatist Thry
It's facing reality.
One or two may get back to a semblance of their best.
Others are passed it, and are approaching the end of their careers
And some have suffered significant injuries, not just once , but have had a number of seasons derailed by injury.
Injuries can have a cumulative effect.
When you're young you can recover quickly.
As you age it takes it's toll.
Injuries to a back can lead to compensatory injuries in the hamstrings, calves and feet, due to an imbalance.
Some injuries are degenerative and time (and age) is the enemy.

Now in a group you may get one or two who can make a full recovery and play there best football in their late 20's early 30s.
But if that group is large, the more likely result is that you've seen the best of some of these players.

Of our All-Australian players currently listed I would reckon the majority will never see AA again.
And that was the point.
That they'll all never reach that level again.
We'll have others who will come on...but not all of that group.
But time will tell

List isnt the problem - it's drilling a squad.

Chris Scott has drilled Geelong - no matter who is in or out they are drilled as a squad.
Chris Fagan has drilled Brisbane
Craig McRae has drilled Collingwood
Sam Mitchell has drilled Hawthorn
Adam Kingsley has drilled GWS
Hardwick has drilled GCS,

What do these coaches have in common?

They were not re employed after getting sacked.

Lyon, Brad Scott, Clarkson is banana territory

Longmuir is just an awful coach like Buckley.

Quote from: Lods – on July 06, 2025, 03:30:06 pm

It's not defeatist Thry
It's facing reality.
One or two may get back to a semblance of their best.
Others are passed it, and are approaching the end of their careers
And some have suffered significant injuries, not just once , but have had a number of seasons derailed by injury.
Injuries can have a cumulative effect.
When you're young you can recover quickly.
As you age it takes it's toll.
Injuries to a back can lead to compensatory injuries in the hamstrings, calves and feet, due to an imbalance.
Some injuries are degenerative and time (and age) is the enemy.

Now in a group you may get one or two who can make a full recovery and play there best football in their late 20's early 30s.
But if that group is large, the more likely result is that you've seen the best of some of these players.

Of our All-Australian players currently listed I would reckon the majority will never see AA again.
And that was the point.
That they'll all never reach that level again.
We'll have others who will come on...but not all of that group.
But time will tell

sorry lods I just want to say that injuries and dealing with them are part good management, part rehab, part preparation, part attitude, part patience and mostly a little luck.

1I've never met an injured bloke cut down and not capable of playing at the elite level ever again no matter the column of their injuries, they usually run out of time before they run out of lives.  Weiters has barely had a real problem.  Harry has had more issue with concussion than his body.  Charlie is unique.  He's showing the ability he used to have but his form is poor and second efforts absent.  More conditioning IMHO.  once conditioning goes optimum performance is harder to achieve but it can come back.

Pros come back from injuries in every code.  It might be we need some of these guys spending more time rehabbing and playing rather than doing any real training but only a solid pre season affords that capability.  Something they all seem to have suffered with. 

Zac williams has the worst injury history of the bunch.  Nick haynes isnt much better.  Both have played their best footy in years this season.  I think Zac's durability is still a question and given we are playing for naught now, I think weve taken the opportunity to take him off before something serious happens.