Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Elite or just above average? (Read 18892 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
He had the second best tall defender in the GF.....until the defender was beaten and moved off him.
If Zac Dawson playing on Jack Gunston isn't a mis-match I don't know what is, a guy who is clearly best as a stay at home full back playing on a deep running HF who can score from outside 50.

No Gunston scored his goals in the GF deep inside 50m which is where he was positioned.

Quote from: LP
PS: Dawson was moved onto Roughead after Roughead started clunking a few, not off Gunston. IMHO a much better match up than the starting line up.

Nope wrong again. Ross Lyon slammed his phone down and moved Dawson off Gunston directly after Gunston kicked his third. You could see he was clearly annoyed with Dawson being beaten. The move was made for that reason.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
No Gunston scored his goals in the GF deep inside 50m which is where he was positioned.
You are being mischievous in generalizing, not all his goals were scored deep as you well know.

I suppose if you looked at it from a supporters point of view you would be correct in that Gunston kicked two from within 15m. I prefer to look at it from a tactical point of view and watch the few hundred meters of running that come ahead of Gunston turning of Dawson inside out and the free kicks or marks that resulted. Gunston's marks are closer in analogy to Garlett starting at FF and marking in the goal square running back with the flight rather than say Roughead marking on the lead out of the square.

Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Nope wrong again. Ross Lyon slammed his phone down and moved Dawson off Gunston directly after Gunston kicked his third. You could see he was clearly annoyed with Dawson being beaten. The move was made for that reason.

As for speculating about Lyon's phone demeanor. Lyon could have easily have been unhappy about Dawson's team-mates failing to cover Gunston who twice managed to stream back towards goal while Dawson ended up following Hale and/or Roughead out of F50 through the corridor. Of course if you just wanted to crucify Dawson you could ignore him trying to stream back onto Gunston, but I won't draw any such conclusion!  ;)

However as a fan, Dawson cannot be totally forgiven for the weak body on body efforts when he did manage to get back. Although Lyon refused to blame anybody in the post match presser and in fairness to Dawson once out of position you are cooked at AFL level, only Sandilands seems to defy this rule of thumb.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #17 –
The tactic was to take Dawson back to the square and expose him. The angry midget obviously identified him as the weak link.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
The tactic was to take Dawson back to the square and expose him. The angry midget obviously identified him as the weak link.

You mean a mismatch???

True the angry ant coached well. Dawson does not have the agility to keep pace with Gunston in anything other than a straight line, this was part of an issue discussed in the media for the full week prior to the game, that Freo's defensive match up on the Dawks looked pretty meager and slow compared to the Dawks forward line. Yet despite that had Freo kicked straight things might be very different.

Freo had spent the whole season initiating a group defense, and in the GF it failed because the Dawks made good decisions and not the predictable decisions.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
The tactic was to take Dawson back to the square and expose him. The angry midget obviously identified him as the weak link.

You mean a mismatch???

True the angry ant coached well. Dawson does not have the agility to keep pace with Gunston in anything other than a straight line, this was part of an issue discussed in the media for the full week prior to the game, that Freo's defensive match up on the Dawks looked pretty meager and slow compared to the Dawks forward line. Yet despite that had Freo kicked straight things might be very different.

Freo had spent the whole season initiating a group defense, and in the GF it failed because the Dawks made good decisions and not the predictable decisions.

Ill fix your part in bold with the following:

Most AFL Key position defenders do not have the agility to keep pace with Key Position Forwards in anything other than a straight line because they are always having to be reactive.  The only thing that they can do to combat this, is to try and read the ball coming into the 50, rather than keeping up with their opponent.  Only problem there is, that you cant afford for all your defenders to do that, so the result is to try and get the "wrong" defender going up to spoil the ball coming.  The only way they can win if they are reactive, is if they are 1.  Faster and can close in on the forward who has the jump on them, or 2, better at reading the flight of the ball than their opponent.

That does depend on game plan somewhat, but thats what I see happening in football.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #20 –
I partially agree, more so if there were more one on one contests.

Most modern football is about numbers, especially Ross Lyon game plans. Which was exposed as having a fatal flaw when him come up against a side that was not so predictable. The weakness of the individual defender is hidden by numbers, but that only succeeds because most sides are full of dumbarse robots drilled into repetition. The Dawks are smart ball users, led by the likes of Hodge, Mitchell and Sewell.

Dawson does not have the agility of a Gunston type, it was a mismatch born out of necessity. When Gunston got goal side of Dawson on more than one occasion Lyon would have wanted to react, but as a coach his cupboard was bare. That was the general consensus before the first bounce and that is how it played out!

The Dawks won't have such a surplus in 2014, it will be interesting to see how the Angry Ant adjusts.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #21 –
Dawson has failed  in Grand Finals .....when the heat was on he couldnt handle it and no matter what spin Ross Lyon puts on it he is a failure.
Clarkson delisted Dawson and recruited Gunston....he is a little prick of man but he knows how to build a list and weed out the duds...

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #22 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Dawson has failed  in Grand Finals .....when the heat was on he couldnt handle it and no matter what spin Ross Lyon puts on it he is a failure.
Clarkson delisted Dawson and recruited Gunston....he is a little prick of man but he knows how to build a list and weed out the duds...

He has found a way to top up every season, even if they don't win a flag. Why ? It is simple. He has managed to watch the side build a solid core group and develop them all into leaders, and champion elite players. Geelong and Sydney have been the same. Hence this is why they play or win flags over the last 10 years. We need to learn to do the same and it means getting the best out of players and moving them on when they are considered drift wood, or dead weight. No more passengers and it all starts from having it between the ears and having the right attitude. Top up with freaks that can bring it on is just a bonus. Even if it is just for a season or two. Get the mix just where the side needs it to be. Competitive at the highest level. Leaves the window open for so many years. Its isn't a radical formula. Its just common sense. ;)
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #23 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Dawson has failed  in Grand Finals .....when the heat was on he couldnt handle it and no matter what spin Ross Lyon puts on it he is a failure.

I thought he was okay in the drawn final...but my memory is hazy.

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #24 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Clarkson delisted Dawson and recruited Gunston....he is a little prick of man but he knows how to build a list and weed out the duds...

Had a lot of luck too.

Roughy and Buddy in the same draft!!!
Brian Lake decides to resurrect his career on song!
Stuart Dew Steps up for a couple of minutes!!
Every player out of contract seems to nominate Hawthorn FFS!!
They even score Dayle Garlett!!
IN WADA WE TRUST

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Juddkreuzer – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Clarkson delisted Dawson and recruited Gunston....he is a little prick of man but he knows how to build a list and weed out the duds...

Had a lot of luck too.

Roughy and Buddy in the same draft!!!
Brian Lake decides to resurrect his career on song!
Stuart Dew Steps up for a couple of minutes!!
Every player out of contract seems to nominate Hawthorn FFS!!
They even score Dayle Garlett!!

TBF, any number of clubs could have had Garlett last year.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Juddkreuzer – on
Had a lot of luck too.

Roughy and Buddy in the same draft!!!
Brian Lake decides to resurrect his career on song!
Stuart Dew Steps up for a couple of minutes!!
Every player out of contract seems to nominate Hawthorn FFS!!
They even score Dayle Garlett!!

Lets not forget a bunch of those Dawks came courtesy of AFL priority picks, there are a lot of AFL revisionists try to claim some sort of Dawks draft / list management genius well after the fact. But they basically got help multiple years running.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #27 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Juddkreuzer – on
Had a lot of luck too.

Roughy and Buddy in the same draft!!!
Brian Lake decides to resurrect his career on song!
Stuart Dew Steps up for a couple of minutes!!
Every player out of contract seems to nominate Hawthorn FFS!!
They even score Dayle Garlett!!

Lets not forget a bunch of those Dawks came courtesy of AFL priority picks, there are a lot of AFL revisionists try to claim some sort of Dawks draft / list management genius well after the fact. But they basically got help multiple years running.

The Franklin, Roughead, Lewis draft was where they cleaned up....three A graders in the one draft is like winning tattslotto..

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #28 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
I thought he was okay in the drawn final...but my memory is hazy.

Actually he did OK in the draw but was among the best in the replay.

Dawson is their version of Rusty, terrific one week and piss weak the next for no apparent reason!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Elite or just above average?

Reply #29 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
The Franklin, Roughead, Lewis draft was where they cleaned up....three A graders in the one draft is like winning tattslotto..

Priority Picks; Hodge, Ellis and Roughead.

2001: Five picks in the first two rounds.
2002: Four picks in first two rounds(Traded three away for Everitt and Hunter)
2003: Four picks first two rounds (Three traded)
2004: Six picks in the first two rounds, three under 10.
2005: Six picks first two rounds.

Not draft genius, almost draft tampering thanks to Kennett crying poor while rolling in Tasmanian and Waverley cash!

Almost unprecedented for an established club with access to F&S picks as well.

How the feck did they qualify for priority picks as well???

The AFL community was stooged by the Angry Ant and "The Leader."

This is why you never hear the Dawks come out too strongly about draft concessions, if they did their heads would explode from the hypocrisy!

Yet I still don't hate them as much as EFC!!!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"