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Topic: CV and mad panic behaviour (Read 130951 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5640
Update from the anti-vax conspiracy theory guy i kicked off site on Monday...

Called him today, and he showed up, with vaccination card in hand. Said he got it that day and was sore for a couple hours and then good as gold.

If we could all turn 1 anti-vaxxer, we'd have this licked in no time!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5641
It would take more than that in the NT:
Vax rollout 'mugged' in remote parts of NT, Canberra Times.
Quote
Chief Minister Michael Gunner says the rollout has been "mugged" by the campaigners and unvaccinated people could die if the Delta variant makes it to the territory.
"At the end of the day, with all the best information, with all the goodwill, with all the repeated attempts, there are some people, in some communities, who have said 'no' to the jab, and could keep saying 'no'," he told reporters on Wednesday.
"We can't hold people down and stick the needle in their arm. It is their choice, and some are choosing against it."
Data published by the NT government shows vaccine uptake is lagging in 33 of the 51 communities.
The is no data for another 33 where the commonwealth is managing the vaccine rollout, with Mr Gunner saying the NT is "flying blind" in those communities.
Some, like Alpurrurulam in the Barkly region and Ikuntji in Central Australia, have first-dose rates below 15 per cent.
Many others have double-dose rates well below 40 per cent.
Dr Heggie says the situation has become serious as he asked "who is going to take responsibility for the first Aboriginal death (in the NT)".
"I know some of the influencers and they are from the US anti-vax lobby and faith organisations," he said.
"They are using social media, particularly in Aboriginal communities."

Dr Heggie warns that if vaccination rates remain low, the only way to save lives will be further travel restrictions in remote areas.
NT Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker said the virus could reappear in the NT at any time and it was possible unvaccinated Aboriginal Territorians could pay a heavy toll.
"Delta is mobile," he said.
"We are far too vast as a jurisdiction to prevent its entry long term."
Mr Gunner cited Yuendumu, in Central Australia, as an example of a community where the rollout was lagging.
Health workers have visited the community of 700 people six times since the rollout started in the NT, but few residents have had a jab.
Meetings have been held with leaders and elders and vaccine information has been provided in the local language, along with vaccination incentives.
"Despite all of these blitz efforts, despite the fact the vaccine has been sitting in the fridge there for months, just 20 per cent of eligible people in Yuendumu have received their first shot," Mr Gunner said.
"It is just an unfortunate reality that some Territorians, across the whole territory, have been mugged by misinformation."

Overall, 61 per cent of people in remote areas of the territory have had their first vaccine dose, with 46 per cent fully vaccinated.
Across the NT, 78 per cent of people have had their first vaccine dose and 65 per cent are fully vaccinated

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5642
When Delta does get into the communities they will all scramble to get jabbed.
Problem is that NT has actually been too successful in keeping it out, life here has pretty much rolled along unchanged and many will think that they’ll get it (the jab) when they need it, which of course will be too late for some of them…


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5644
How can we tell if vaccine scare-mongering among indigenous and ethnic groups is the result of religious or anti-vax zealots, or a deliberate tactic used by racists and bigots to have a devastating effect on a resident minority?

Are we naïve enough to think some neo-Nazi types might not hide among anti-vax zealots and push to promote those views in say Africa, India or Sth America?

To me this is no different to the rumours that ISIS was trying to weaponize asymptomatic Sars-CoV-2 carriers among Western populations, if you think one is possible the other must also be possible.

If someone is brazen enough to think it's right for some to sit at the back of the bus, or on the roof, do not be surprised to find they care very little about someone falling off! These people do exist, they are not always obvious.

As Hollywood as it sounds, I would not put it past some mining executive, landholder or bureaucrat thinking a dose of COVID might be the best way to deal with an unmoveable obstruction like a resident mob. Of course this is a psychopath or sociopath perspective, but then some careers / jobs attract that type and often reward them!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5645
Social media keeps understating the seriousness of COVID, it loops through a series of spurious claims, it's just a cold, my body my choice, vaccines kill, and then it's rinse and repeat.

A specialist I saw today cut through the crap and told me dying from Sars-CoV-2 related disease is like drowning gradually and continuously for several weeks while a master torturer does just enough to keep you from dying, a viral version of waterboarding! Except in this case the torturer is a health professional doing all they can to help you survive, and being distraught knowing full well that if things go bad at some point nothing they can do is going to help!

Most who end up like this walked or were wheel-chaired into hospital, and never saw family or friends again.

Ultimately many people have a stroke or heart attack from the physical duress, even if they are in a COMA so that the mind doesn't know what the body is suffering, it is still physically stressful!

My specialist is a good man, I can tell from his demeanour he is greatly affected by his work volunteering in a COVID ICU, and his great fear is that he can never be sure of the patients level of 'awareness', what if they know exactly what is happening, can feel it all, can see it all, can hear it all, can smell it all, but are paralysed and cannot communicate their awareness!

And some want to let COVID rip so that the lucky can survive!

What about the poor bastards who don't, is that slight risk of falling unwell from being vaccinated worth risking the potential horror described above?

The doctor would rather die peacefully than go through what he described above, so he is pro-choice advocate for euthanasia, but he has no choice for you, he has to try and save you once you hit that ICU bed!

All this grimness isn't just purely a result of the disease, it's also piled on health workers by the dissenters, who often end up in the above circumstance having ignored the warnings. The critics who diminish the health workers efforts and belittle their daily experiences, the critics who flip when confronted by reality!
The Force Awakens!

 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5646
Today's Daily Telegraph has a front page story detailing the results of its investigation into the circumstances surrounding the limousine driver contracting Covid, which resulted in the NSW "mockdown" and subsequently the ending of our doughnut days and current lockdown.

The story from Gladys and the NSW Government after their brief investigation has always been that the limousine driver had complied with the regulations, was not to blame, and everybody "look over there."

However, the Daily Telegraph has uncovered the fact that for months prior to the driver contracting Covid the NSW Health Dept had been aware that the limousine company which employed the driver had not been complying with Health regulations but did not know how to get the company to comply.

The two Sky News commentators discussing the article believe that talk-back radio in NSW will be inundated with calls today.  I'm sure the same will happen here when the news breaks.

Until now I have never been able to understand why Gladys decided suddenly to resign as state premier and also to leave parliament.  I now believe she knew that this story could not be kept under wraps and provided further impetus for her to get out while the going was good.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5647
2000 cases oh let's blame Gladys.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5648
Hell no, she’s on her way to sainthood after being a martyr to ICAC, so best avoid that.

Brilliant opinion piece from Michael Gerson in the Washington Post. When you’re reading this, bear in mind he is a neo-conservative and former speechwriter for George Dubya:

Quote
Vaccine resisters sacrificing their jobs are not heroes
“Poor is the nation that has no heroes,” Cicero said. But poorer still is a nation with the kind of heroes celebrated on Fox News.

The nation’s leading purveyor of lethal medical advice during a pandemic (trademark pending) has recently elevated the resisters against coronavirus vaccines — an airline pilot here, a nurse there — as models of citizenship. These abstainers are risking their livelihoods in the cause of … what? Well, that depends on your view of the vaccines themselves.

For generations we’ve had vaccine mandates, particularly for childhood diseases, in every state plus D.C. Few thought to call this tyranny because communities have a duty to maintain public health, and individuals have a duty to reasonably accommodate the common good — even if this means allowing your child to be injected with a substance carrying a minuscule risk of harm.

So there can be no objection rooted in principle to vaccine mandates, unless you want to question them all the way down to measles, mumps and rubella. The problem must be covid-19 in particular.

If the coronavirus vaccines are risky, experimental concoctions with frequent side effects, then government and business mandates are social coercion run amok. We might as well mandate vaping.

But if these vaccines are carefully tested and encourage greater immunity to a deadly disease, with minimal risk of side effects, then the “heroism” of vaccine resisters takes on a different connotation: It means resisters are less courageous and more selfish than your average 6-year-old getting a second MMR dose. Perhaps vaccine mandates should be modified to include lollipops for whingeing malcontents.

So which view is correct? If only there were empirical means, some scientific method, to test the matter. If only there had been three phases of clinical trials, involving tens of thousands of volunteers, demonstrating the drugs to be safe and effective. If only the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration were constantly monitoring safety concerns about the vaccines. If only we could estimate the number of covid deaths that might have been prevented if vaccine uptake were higher.

To break the suspense — we do live in such a world. “From June through September 2021,” concluded a recent Peterson-KFF report, “approximately 90,000 covid-19 deaths among adults likely would have been prevented with vaccination.” So the matter is simple: Who is making vaccination more likely to take place, and who is not?

In this light, it’s hard to blame the small group of workers who have been misled into believing that liberty is the right to infect your neighbors with a deadly pathogen. The main fault lies with the media outlets that spotlight and elevate such people, and with political figures who seek their political dreams by encouraging lethal ignorance.

In the latter category, the Republican governors Ron DeSantis of Florida and Greg Abbott of Texas are the repellent standouts. If the coronavirus could vote, these men would be governors for life. Most recently, Abbott issued an executive order saying “no entity” could impose vaccine mandates in his state. So far, many Texas business entities have treated his order with contempt, preferring to comply with President Biden’s vaccinate-or-test mandate.

In my political youth, conservatives praised state governments as “laboratories of innovation.” Now they’re graveyards of sanity and public spirit. And the actual graveyards provide evidence.

The effectiveness of vaccine mandates is demonstrated by current practice. The United States has generally high rates of coverage for childhood vaccinations. But in states that make it easy to gain an exemption — for religious or sometimes “philosophical” reasons — the rates of coverage decline. And we’ve seen outbreaks of preventable diseases such as measles as a result.

For my part, I’m not even sure what a “religious” exemption means in the case of covid. I understand that a few religious traditions object to receiving medical care entirely. But I don’t think this is the main excuse for evangelicals seeking exemptions from covid vaccinations. What type or tradition of religion asserts the right to avoid minor risks and inconveniences in service to our neighbors? The Church of Perpetual Selfishness? The coven of Ayn Rand? Do Christians really want to be identified as people who permit breast augmentation but frown on vaccination? Getting vaccinated is not only good public health; it is also a small but important act of generosity.

Abbott and his ilk are seeking a morally desolate world in which people demand their autonomy even if it kills their neighbor. But there is a better world in which institutions have duties to the health and safety of citizens, and citizens have obligations to the health and happiness of one another. That is not only a better place to live — it is a place where more of us would remain alive.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5649
Yes it goes to the heart of the problem, many dissenters actually see themselves as the messiahs, believing they can see something the rest of the poor general public cannot. In effect they are duping themselves with a mirage but also hurting the innocent as collateral in the process!

But that is not Abbott. The psychopaths in media and society also see something, and this may include someone like Abbott who cannot be an idiot, they see an opportunity to manipulate the minority for profit and power, telling the dissenters what they want to hear to enlisting support. Abbott is no different to Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, Rita Panahi, Peta Credlin or Rupert Murdoch, it is just that Abbott 'profits' in a different way via the same mechanism!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5650
Many people not taking the vaccine have a profound mistrust for the motivation to do so and the medical professionals telling us to.

There is a saying, you reap what you sow.

I've been to plenty of GP doctors who provide the service of see you, give certificate then dismiss you and on next visit talk to you like they've never seen you before.

Ive finally found one over the last 10 years that recognised me and discussed my last visit with me and then spotted what I was there to see her about before I told her what was happening and am hanging onto this GP as they are rare.

You might simply be seeing disenfranchised people turn to alt medicine because they aren't getting the care they think they should be from medical professionals.

The thing is both sides are wrong in that equation.  People expect a lot from medical professionals but they can't know everything about everyone.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5651
Many people not taking the vaccine have a profound mistrust for the motivation to do so and the medical professionals telling us to.

There is a saying, you reap what you sow.

I've been to plenty of GP doctors who provide the service of see you, give certificate then dismiss you and on next visit talk to you like they've never seen you before.

Ive finally found one over the last 10 years that recognised me and discussed my last visit with me and then spotted what I was there to see her about before I told her what was happening and am hanging onto this GP as they are rare.

You might simply be seeing disenfranchised people turn to alt medicine because they aren't getting the care they think they should be from medical professionals.

The thing is both sides are wrong in that equation.  People expect a lot from medical professionals but they can't know everything about everyone.

One of my pet peeves. But I get the economics of the health care system. Takes an exceptional GP to not be 're educated' by the sausage meat attitude of many clinic owners... get 'em in, find out what's wrong asap, get 'em out the door, get the loot, then get the next one in. So many docs start with the right attitude, but then the workload becomes horrendous.

Like you, 3 Leos, we've found a GP who doesn't have a stop watch. Down side is you can wait for a while to see him... I always ring beforehand to see how far behind schedule he is... usually about an hour! I've learned to get in early, or straight after lunch! He's a ripper and is now a family friend.

The system needs changing but also we citizens need to become more informed and responsible re our own health/diet/exercise.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5652
An interesting spin on all this liberty and freedom of choice debate is where a business stands versus the individual. It may well be true some individual liberties have been violated and cannot be enforced on the individual, but it's not clear at all that business cannot be forced to be compliant, and I suspect this is where it goes next.

If they make the digital certificate process two-factor, where Part-A comes from the individual and Part-B comes from the business, a bit like PKI, then they can track and trace businesses that fail to comply, simply because some clients will have legitimate Apps and certificates. They may not be able to penalise a fraudulent individual, but they can surely make accepting forgeries very expensive or uncomfortable for the a business. Auditors would quickly see a trend appearing in the trading data for any business that was 'sympathetic' to fraudulent clients.

In effect they can make it so onerous on fraudsters or fraudulent businesses that it potentially becomes impossible to deal!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5653
Hell no, she’s on her way to sainthood after being a martyr to ICAC, so best avoid that.

Brilliant opinion piece from Michael Gerson in the Washington Post. When you’re reading this, bear in mind he is a neo-conservative and former speechwriter for George Dubya:


Brilliant? Facile more likely.

Why is CV19 anything to do with politics?

And herein lies your problem:

Quote
But if these vaccines are carefully tested and encourage greater immunity to a deadly disease, with minimal risk of side effects

That is laughable.

They have not been carefully tested - a blatant lie - studies are still ongoing. I understand some animal studies were skipped and several other tests eg relating to fertility.

They do not encourage greater immunity - even the manufacturer's acknowledge this fact.

And there is not minimal risk of side effects (and no one has any idea about the longer term issues - as we aren't there yet).

Brilliant?

Far from it.




Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5654
And there is not minimal risk of side effects (and no one has any idea about the longer term issues - as we aren't there yet).

Brilliant?

Far from it.
This may or may not be correct.

BUT...
We do know of some long term effects from Covid.

There is 2 doors.
You can 'take your chances' with the most likely safe long term effects before door #1 (get vaxed)
or
Go behind door #2 where you know there is something that can give you long term effects or even kill you....and those around you.

For some unknown reason you are choosing door #2.