1st quarter down. Hendo is good to go. Moving well. Bootsma has conceded 2 goals (nfi) Wood has dominated the ruck.
Hendo 3 goals at half time. 36 to 39 3 pts down. Graham is a ball magnet. Cachia is tough and strong. Giles has done a couple of useful things. He looks a good size.
Who is rucking against Wood?
Who is rucking against Wood?
Will Sullivan
The Bulldogs lead 7.8.50 to 7.1.43
Not good.
Disposals: Graham 22, Lucas 11, McInnes 9, Thomas 9, Giles 8
Big difference between 1st and 4th.
Goals: Henderson 3, Temay, Johnson, Murray, Lucas
Wood: 23 hitouts to 3/4 time
Info from Twitter.
One goal each so far in the final quarter. Our goal to Thomas.
Sorry i'm confused...is this the seniors game or reserves? I thought it started at 4pm
Sorry i'm confused...is this the seniors game or reserves? I thought it started at 4pm
Nth Blues by a point. No injuries. Ground looks in excellent conditions. (Didn't see Daisy sneak on and kick a goal!! )
Think its the Nthrn Blues game.
Cheers guys
Good to see Hendo doing well and moving freely.
Reckon he's in for a big year!!
is the main game being streamed?
One goal each so far in the final quarter. Our goal to Thomas.
That would be Tyson Thomas wouldnt it?
Krueser not named in squad but is playing.
Krueser not named in squad but is playing.
Just saw him on the video... That's good news.
Krueser not named in squad but is playing.
Just saw him on the video... That's good news.
There's video, have I missed something?
Krueser not named in squad but is playing.
Just saw him on the video... That's good news.
There's video, have I missed something?
Sorry, club twitter account posted a few video clips of the warm up and running out on the ground.
Krueser not named in squad but is playing.
Just saw him on the video... That's good news.
There's video, have I missed something?
Sorry, club twitter account posted a few video clips of the warm up and running out on the ground.
OK, thanks. Special boots on it seems.
Scores ... ??
Anything ... ??
Scores ... ??
Anything ... ??
You can follow the tweets from the game on the carlton website.
"Another to the Dogs through Campbell. Their forwards have caused us a few headaches this quarter. CARL 1.2.8 WB 4.2.26 #NAVYBLUES"
and
"Cordy gets another. Bulldogs mids pumping it inside-50 with ease at the moment. #NAVYBLUES"
Not looking good early.
First quarter touch up 40:8 Bulldog's favour. We are SLOW!!! No one worth mentioning. Plenty of players yet to worry the stats sheet. Has Waite actually had a kick in 2014???
We can win it from here. :D
I know its only a Practice Game, but its a pretty pea hearted effort to play like that on your own turf.
It's a practice game.
Who knows what we are doing off the track. Could be in the middle of the greatest training load of all time for all we know.
Carlton FC @CarltonFC · 33s
First of the quarter to the Blues through Menzel. That was all class. CARL 2.3.15 WB 6.4.40
Two in a row as Garlett leads, marks and goals. Great to see him buzzing around inside 50 again! CARL 3.3.21 WB 6.5.41
It's a practice game.
Who knows what we are doing off the track. Could be in the middle of the greatest training load of all time for all we know.
Agree.
It's a practice game.
Who knows what we are doing off the track. Could be in the middle of the greatest training load of all time for all we know.
Agree.
+1 until Round 1 its all up side :D
Waite takes a hanger and slots his first of the afternoon! The Visy Park crowd liked that one! CARL 4.4.28 WB 6.5.41
Better, better, better. Waite got involved, Menzel was class Bell and Mitch are having a crack, Casboult needs to hold more marks, Watson no impression, Simpson running hard, Tuoy trying to break the lines, Everitt is ok, Scotland is unfortunately now redundant. 48:37 Doggies way
Carlton 5.7.37 Western Bulldogs 7.6.48
Half time
Is McLean playing... Did he get injured?
Started off but took a knock (could have been ankle).
Is McLean playing... Did he get injured?
Good question. There is a rather cryptic tweet about Broke which doesn't actually say anything, so I don't know if he is playing or not.
Started off but took a knock (could have been ankle).
Information! Insh'allah! Now to find out how bad it is!
No McLean on the ground after half time.
Players might need miners lights on their heads for the last quarter.
Curnow is shadowing Cooney.
First goal Waite.
From the early game, Mitch Gleeson (son of Adrian) slotted the winning goal just near the siren.
A comment on TC has Hendo limping and not looking good. An article on afl.com.au, on the other hand, has him a certainty to play next week. I don't mind saying that I'm confused.
A goal to McRae for the Dogs. :( >:(
CARL 6.7.43 WB 9.7.61
Half Time Stats:
CARLTON 1.2 5.7 (37)
WESTERN BULLDOGS 6.4 7.6 (48)
GOALS
Carlton: Menzel 2, Robinson, Waite, Garlett
Western Bulldogs: Giansiracusa 2, Hunter, Cooney, Dickson, Campbell, Cordy
CARL 7.7.49 WB 9.7.61
Goal to Robbo.
AFL Twitter feed has Henderson on the list of injuries saying he has done a groin and will miss two weeks...
A comment on TC has Hendo limping and not looking good. An article on afl.com.au, on the other hand, has him a certainty to play next week. I don't mind saying that I'm confused.
Hendo looked to be moving fine at the end of the match.
Sounds encouraging...!!
Whatever the truth of the matter is, hopefully Hendo can get fit. We need him very badly in our structure. I would hate to start the season with Rowe in key defence.
Holman and Johnson (rookie) from the early game are getting a run.
Playing the kids...!!
They both got subbed off: probably to give them time to recover.
Hope they can get a goal or 2. Not much scoring to report.
Free to Cooney - goal. :(
At least Watson is back in defence.
Back to back goals to Cooney 22pt the difference
Goal to Krueser 18 pts down. 13 minutes gone
Torp goal to Waite, but Gia gets an immediate reply...
US 9.12 (66)
THEM 12.11 (83)
& that's the fulltime score...
CARLTON 1.2 5.7 7.10 9.12 (66)
WESTERN BULLDOGS 6.4 7.6 11.8 12.11 (83)
GOALS
Carlton: Waite 3, Menzel 2, Robinson 2, Garlett, Kreuzer
Western Bulldogs: Cooney 3, Giansiracusa 3, Cordy, Campbell, Dickson, Hunter, Macrae, Stevens
BEST
Carlton: Simpson, Robinson, Curnow, Thomas, Kreuzer, Waite
Western Bulldogs: Higgins, Cooney, Macrae, Goodes, Stevens, Hunter, Giansiracusa
Those who were there may not agree: this from afl.com.au.
Reading their report, we were smashed in the centre clearances again.
And after sitting out the first half Tom Liberatore had 20 disposals in the second half, including an amazing 16 touches in the third term alone when he controlled the clearances.
Not happy, Jan!
We have a week to get things right.
I would be very surprised if we started the year like we've played our last two games. If we did however wow. The torch will be well and truly applied to Mick.
CARLTON 1.2 5.7 7.10 9.12 (66)
WESTERN BULLDOGS 6.4 7.6 11.8 12.11 (83)
GOALS
Carlton: Waite 3, Menzel 2, Robinson 2, Garlett, Kreuzer
Western Bulldogs: Cooney 3, Giansiracusa 3, Cordy, Campbell, Dickson, Hunter, Macrae, Stevens
BEST
Carlton: Simpson, Robinson, Curnow, Thomas, Kreuzer, Waite
Western Bulldogs: Higgins, Cooney, Macrae, Goodes, Stevens, Hunter, Giansiracusa
Those who were there may not agree: this from afl.com.au.
Reading their report, we were smashed in the centre clearances again.
And after sitting out the first half Tom Liberatore had 20 disposals in the second half, including an amazing 16 touches in the third term alone when he controlled the clearances.
Not happy, Jan!
We have a week to get things right.
Our clearance work is usually pretty good and I think we were top 4 for clearance differential last year. What has Laidley done to our midfield? :))
We've been smashed in the clearances this preseason.
I would be very surprised if we started the year like we've played our last two games. If we did however wow. The torch will be well and truly applied to Mick.
You'd be hard pressed to to get support on that PI2C, pretty sure it'll be Ratts fault :P
"Carlton will be buoyed by what they saw before the clash with the Dogs, however, with big man Lachie Henderson playing for the Northern Blues against Footscray in the preceding VFL practice match.
Henderson, who had leg surgery in January, looked underdone but competed well in attack and is expected to be available for round one after getting through the contest unscathed."
AFL website
Wouldnt be worrying about losing preseason games but its fairly apparent we dont have the firepower up forward to kick enough goals.....Waite being the only target wont work even if he does stay on the park.
If we had recruited Jessie White for example and had Henderson at CHB our spine would look so much better, not bothering to find some solution to our ongoing forward problems is going to cost us again IMO.
Waiting for some kid to emerge from the end of the season draft wont work either, too many years to wait...the window is closing and we needed a solution for 2014......unless the club can pull off a big recuiting coup and tempt a decent KP forward away from some club next season I dont see how we can expect to make top 4 relying on Waite and perhaps Henderson.
Spot on EB1. Been saying it for years that we need a KPF and all we do is keep getting g midfielders. And even there we haven't been that good.
Anyway it's the preseason and we have hope for 2014 at least until round 1.
EB1. I was hoping Everitt was a solution for an extra forward or and extra defender to clear Henderson up forward, and have them switch during a game to give us match up options. I do agree we need another tall experienced forward who is capable to play as a forward. A decent defender with experience and one more capable mid. Lets just get these types to the club.
J Kennedy
Frawley
Sloan or a Cooney type
Top up with some good youngsters. Develop what we already have and trade out the list cloggers. Pray that Menzel becomes just what he needs to be. Pray that Robinson, Bell, and Cripps become superstars. Pray that Garlett and Yarran step up and become elite contributors each and every game without going missing at times. Pray Watson isn't a waste of space. Pray Kreuzer proves he was picked at pick one for a reason. Then the rest will just fall into place. I know EB1, I am a dreamer. ;D
We may have been waiting to see what happens with Levi and Rowe but I think it would be most unwise to continue with this hope. If one of those guys comes good it should be looked on as a bonus. We've been screaming out for KPPs now for years - time to do something about it for 2015 - start the planning NOW!.
Wouldnt be worrying about losing preseason games but its fairly apparent we dont have the firepower up forward to kick enough goals.....Waite being the only target wont work even if he does stay on the park.
If we had recruited Jessie White for example and had Henderson at CHB our spine would look so much better, not bothering to find some solution to our ongoing forward problems is going to cost us again IMO.
Waiting for some kid to emerge from the end of the season draft wont work either, too many years to wait...the window is closing and we needed a solution for 2014......unless the club can pull off a big recuiting coup and tempt a decent KP forward away from some club next season I dont see how we can expect to make top 4 relying on Waite and perhaps Henderson.
The reason for this appalling situation is because of our incompetent recruitment and list management over the years.
Now that Hughes has gone, his decisions ( as well as Mr Swan's decisions for keeping Hughes and Rodgers over the years) will continue to affect the Club for the next 5 to 10 years.
I remind everyone that Hughes 2nd best key position player recruitment decision over 10 years at Carlton was Bower after John Kennedy.
We will not make the 8 this year.....
The Kennedy vs Judd situation has been well discussed and I understand why the club traded Kennedy, the problem I have is that after that we didnt try and replace him until we had the tall draft where we got Mitchell, McCarthy etc...
Casboult and Rowe were the cheap gambles that have not paid off so far and dont look paying off either, they are not specialist KP forwards more just bit part players who are jack of all trades but masters of none and when it comes to KP forwards you need the real thing not cheap fill ins.
Its like buying a J11 Chery FWD or Great Wall FWD and expecting it to last and perform like a Toyota Landcruiser, either they fall part or just dont go at all...
There hasnt been a Podsiadly available as a low cost experienced player to cheat with like Geelong had and we are one short down the spine.....
Its going to be that one player that makes us midpack rather than top 4-6 IMO.
The Kennedy vs Judd situation has been well discussed and I understand why the club traded Kennedy, the problem I have is that after that we didnt try and replace him until we had the tall draft where we got Mitchell, McCarthy etc...
Casboult and Rowe were the cheap gambles that have not paid off so far and dont look paying off either, they are not specialist KP forwards more just bit part players who are jack of all trades but masters of none and when it comes to KP forwards you need the real thing not cheap fill ins.
Its like buying a J11 Chery FWD or Great Wall FWD and expecting it to last and perform like a Toyota Landcruiser, either they fall part or just dont go at all...
There hasnt been a Podsiadly available as a low cost experienced player to cheat with like Geelong had and we are one short down the spine.....
Its going to be that one player that makes us midpack rather than top 4-6 IMO.
Take Talia instead of Lucas and Henderson can play forward. Bad Bad Bad selection.
The Kennedy vs Judd situation has been well discussed and I understand why the club traded Kennedy, the problem I have is that after that we didnt try and replace him until we had the tall draft where we got Mitchell, McCarthy etc...
Casboult and Rowe were the cheap gambles that have not paid off so far and dont look paying off either, they are not specialist KP forwards more just bit part players who are jack of all trades but masters of none and when it comes to KP forwards you need the real thing not cheap fill ins.
Its like buying a J11 Chery FWD or Great Wall FWD and expecting it to last and perform like a Toyota Landcruiser, either they fall part or just dont go at all...
There hasnt been a Podsiadly available as a low cost experienced player to cheat with like Geelong had and we are one short down the spine.....
Its going to be that one player that makes us midpack rather than top 4-6 IMO.
Take Talia instead of Lucas and Henderson can play forward. Bad Bad Bad selection.
Forget the past, put in place a plan to get Boyd. You've got two years to get it done CFC.
EB1. I was hoping Everitt was a solution for an extra forward or and extra defender to clear Henderson up forward, and have them switch during a game to give us match up options. I do agree we need another tall experienced forward who is capable to play as a forward. A decent defender with experience and one more capable mid. Lets just get these types to the club.
J Kennedy
Frawley
Sloan or a Cooney type
Top up with some good youngsters. Develop what we already have and trade out the list cloggers. Pray that Menzel becomes just what he needs to be. Pray that Robinson, Bell, and Cripps become superstars. Pray that Garlett and Yarran step up and become elite contributors each and every game without going missing at times. Pray Watson isn't a waste of space. Pray Kreuzer proves he was picked at pick one for a reason. Then the rest will just fall into place. I know EB1, I am a dreamer. ;D
Mants...Everitt is a good 3rd tall either down forward or down back.....he could be your Jack Gunston or your Ben Stratton but will always be your supporting actor not your star lead actor...Gunston needed Buddy and Roughy and Stratton needs Lake and Gibbo, we need another lead down forward actor so Everitt can be best supporting actor. He could be a very damaging player given the right structure but the danger is the club will try and cheat with him as a KP.
Freo have tried that with Chris Mayne...very good player, works hard but wont be a gun KP goalkicker and who is better suited to being a 3rd tall forward...it probably cost them the GF not having another decent marking tall down forward and allowed Lake to dominate.
That is why I think we need a key forward, and a key back first or second defender because Jamo won't last forever, and Watson isn't a certainty just yet. We also need another fast ball running mid. The inner types might develop to help support with Bell, Robinson and Cripps, with McLean while he still lasts. Judd is what I consider a bonus but he we only give this season and maybe one more at best.
I think the club at the time of the Judd trade thought that it would be relatively easy to secure another player of the ilk of Josh Kennedy yet as we now can see KPF's are rarer than hens teeth. Judd for Fev would have been ludicrous at the time, but now it would have been a major win as we would have retained JK. As good as Hendo is I'd be surprised if he could emulate the feats of the likes of Franklin, Roughead, Cloke, Brown, Riewoldts, Podsiadly or even Dawkins. I'd love it if he could prove me wrong but I doubt it and we've wasted time on Mitchell who was always to slow and Waite who is undisciplined and injury prone.
It would have been nice to know that the traitor in 19 was looking for a cash cow to ride home on so we could have traded him out a season ago when we could have looked at players like Taylor Walker, Kurt Tippett and John Butcher. Who knows maybe Wingard could have found his way to us.
Remember when Elliott used the slogan "Best in the business"? We are so far from that ATM!!
What a bunch of pussies. We lose a nothing scratch match by less than three goals and the sky is falling....
No Judd, no Carrots, no Gibbs (ditto Walker, Hendo, others) and (from what I gather) only 1 ruck?
It means jack.
It means jack.
So it's a media ban then :o ;)
Did anyone actually watch the game?
Would love a report, rumour has it Cripps and Holman did well.
What a bunch of pussies. We lose a nothing scratch match by less than three goals and the sky is falling....
No Judd, no Carrots, no Gibbs (ditto Walker, Hendo, others) and (from what I gather) only 1 ruck?
It means jack.
Its not about the loss Fly...couldnt care less about the result but its the same old same old down forward....Waite and not much else unless we play Henderson down forward and that leaves a hole down back....
The Kennedy vs Judd situation has been well discussed and I understand why the club traded Kennedy, the problem I have is that after that we didnt try and replace him until we had the tall draft where we got Mitchell, McCarthy etc...
Casboult and Rowe were the cheap gambles that have not paid off so far and dont look paying off either, they are not specialist KP forwards more just bit part players who are jack of all trades but masters of none and when it comes to KP forwards you need the real thing not cheap fill ins.
Its like buying a J11 Chery FWD or Great Wall FWD and expecting it to last and perform like a Toyota Landcruiser, either they fall part or just dont go at all...
There hasnt been a Podsiadly available as a low cost experienced player to cheat with like Geelong had and we are one short down the spine.....
Its going to be that one player that makes us midpack rather than top 4-6 IMO.
Take Talia instead of Lucas and Henderson can play forward. Bad Bad Bad selection.
Forget the past, put in place a plan to get Boyd. You've got two years to get it done CFC.
I d rather Cameron. He's got mongrel, great both sides, speed, can turn on a dime, and kick goals
What a bunch of pussies. We lose a nothing scratch match by less than three goals and the sky is falling....
No Judd, no Carrots, no Gibbs (ditto Walker, Hendo, others) and (from what I gather) only 1 ruck?
It means jack.
Its not about the loss Fly...couldnt care less about the result but its the same old same old down forward....Waite and not much else unless we play Henderson down forward and that leaves a hole down back....
Wouldn't it be nice EB if there was a surprise in the pack that we didn't see coming? Like if Rowe had blitzed it today and snared 10 goals. If Menzel helped himself to 40 possies and 5 goals. It's been too predictable for too long.
We are screwed, blued and tattooed. I doubt we'll finish much higher than 12th. No forwards.
What a bunch of pussies. We lose a nothing scratch match by less than three goals and the sky is falling....
No Judd, no Carrots, no Gibbs (ditto Walker, Hendo, others) and (from what I gather) only 1 ruck?
It means jack.
Its not about the loss Fly...couldnt care less about the result but its the same old same old down forward....Waite and not much else unless we play Henderson down forward and that leaves a hole down back....
Wouldn't it be nice EB if there was a surprise in the pack that we didn't see coming? Like if Rowe had blitzed it today and snared 10 goals. If Menzel helped himself to 40 possies and 5 goals. It's been too predictable for too long.
Would have loved to be see such surprises JK...... However I'd be happier that they eventuate in round 1onwards. Admittedly it's slightly slightly slightly slightly more hope than logic.
What a bunch of pussies. We lose a nothing scratch match by less than three goals and the sky is falling....
No Judd, no Carrots, no Gibbs (ditto Walker, Hendo, others) and (from what I gather) only 1 ruck?
It means jack.
Its not about the loss Fly...couldnt care less about the result but its the same old same old down forward....Waite and not much else unless we play Henderson down forward and that leaves a hole down back....
Wouldn't it be nice EB if there was a surprise in the pack that we didn't see coming? Like if Rowe had blitzed it today and snared 10 goals. If Menzel helped himself to 40 possies and 5 goals. It's been too predictable for too long.
Would have loved to be see such surprises JK...... However I'd be happier that they eventuate in round 1onwards. Admittedly it's slightly slightly slightly slightly more hope than logic.
The only trick in our book DU is Daisy. To a lesser extent though I must include Sammy Docherty and Andrejs Everitt!!
What a bunch of pussies. We lose a nothing scratch match by less than three goals and the sky is falling....
No Judd, no Carrots, no Gibbs (ditto Walker, Hendo, others) and (from what I gather) only 1 ruck?
It means jack.
Its not about the loss Fly...couldnt care less about the result but its the same old same old down forward....Waite and not much else unless we play Henderson down forward and that leaves a hole down back....
Wouldn't it be nice EB if there was a surprise in the pack that we didn't see coming? Like if Rowe had blitzed it today and snared 10 goals. If Menzel helped himself to 40 possies and 5 goals. It's been too predictable for too long.
Would have loved to be see such surprises JK...... However I'd be happier that they eventuate in round 1onwards. Admittedly it's slightly slightly slightly slightly more hope than logic.
The only trick in our book DU is Daisy. To a lesser extent though I must include Sammy Docherty and Andrejs Everitt!!
Yeah ur probably spot on, although I'm hoping one of the kids from this years crop surprises us
And I hope Kruizer makes me eat my words sideways and backwards and has a ripper season
The Kennedy vs Judd situation has been well discussed and I understand why the club traded Kennedy, the problem I have is that after that we didnt try and replace him until we had the tall draft where we got Mitchell, McCarthy etc...
Casboult and Rowe were the cheap gambles that have not paid off so far and dont look paying off either, they are not specialist KP forwards more just bit part players who are jack of all trades but masters of none and when it comes to KP forwards you need the real thing not cheap fill ins.
Its like buying a J11 Chery FWD or Great Wall FWD and expecting it to last and perform like a Toyota Landcruiser, either they fall part or just dont go at all...
There hasnt been a Podsiadly available as a low cost experienced player to cheat with like Geelong had and we are one short down the spine.....
Its going to be that one player that makes us midpack rather than top 4-6 IMO.
Did Casboult play yesterday?
What a bunch of pussies. We lose a nothing scratch match by less than three goals and the sky is falling....
No Judd, no Carrots, no Gibbs (ditto Walker, Hendo, others) and (from what I gather) only 1 ruck?
It means jack.
I agree, practice matches don't mean anything. I am concerned about our growing injury list though.
Cripps was again at the bottom of packs and burrowed in. He definitely does not look out of his depth at all.
Holman was on for parts of the second half and had little impact. Nick Graham is 12 months ahead of him in exposure to the big time and is moving along very nicely. He dominated in the early game.
Casboult continues to disappoint. Has no running patterns up forward, clunks a big mark once or twice a match to give you hope, then does nothing much after that. Sticks needs to move out of his presidents office and teach Caz how to play CHF.
Rowe showed a bit down back, but you worry when you look there and see he and Watson holding down the fort!! Jammo was quite good but tended to move ( or be drawn ) further up the ground.
Krueser showed glimpses of good form up forward with quick hands, pace at the ball and heavy work. He might be warming to the task.
Thomas and Everitt were relatively quiet, neither did anything that made you sit up and say wow. Murphy was in second gear. Garlett did nothing, Simpson is in good form,Menzel flashed in and out, nothing more.
White was used at both ends of the ground. At one stage he ran backwards into a pack, kept his eye on the ball and didn't flinch. Better than I'd do after what he had!!
Waite gathered momentum as the match progress but insisted on trying to take the hanger from behind.
Buckley and Scotland will make way for Walker and Yarran, Armfield had no influence and Curnow was mainly on Cooney.
Our midfield will fire up when the real stuff starts, but I'm concerned about how we are going to consistently kick winning scores.
We will not make the 8 this year.....
[/quote]
May as well go fishin' for the next 6 months ;)
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on March 07, 2014, 10:58:14 PM
The Kennedy vs Judd situation has been well discussed and I understand why the club traded Kennedy, the problem I have is that after that we didnt try and replace him until we had the tall draft where we got Mitchell, McCarthy etc...
Casboult and Rowe were the cheap gambles that have not paid off so far and dont look paying off either, they are not specialist KP forwards more just bit part players who are jack of all trades but masters of none and when it comes to KP forwards you need the real thing not cheap fill ins.
Its like buying a J11 Chery FWD or Great Wall FWD and expecting it to last and perform like a Toyota Landcruiser, either they fall part or just dont go at all...
There hasnt been a Podsiadly available as a low cost experienced player to cheat with like Geelong had and we are one short down the spine.....
Its going to be that one player that makes us midpack rather than top 4-6 IMO.
I thought the Recruiting of talls, Mitchell/McCarthy was one year too late.
It was obvious we need Key Talls down back and the next year we picked up Mitchell/McCarthy and trusted and trusted with out result.
Our recruitment needs to improve. The presence of MickM helps. Great pick-ups this year: (Everitt, Cripps, Doherty, Thomas).
I figure Temay to be a great type of guy, but if he does not make an impression in 2015 - will he be a wasted pick.
We will be watching to see if mid-size selections Reynolds, Johnson prove to be good judgement!
What a bunch of pussies. We lose a nothing scratch match by less than three goals and the sky is falling....
No Judd, no Carrots, no Gibbs (ditto Walker, Hendo, others) and (from what I gather) only 1 ruck?
It means jack.
I agree, practice matches don't mean anything. I am concerned about our growing injury list though.
Do you think we should still account for Port next week MBB?
What a bunch of pussies. We lose a nothing scratch match by less than three goals and the sky is falling....
No Judd, no Carrots, no Gibbs (ditto Walker, Hendo, others) and (from what I gather) only 1 ruck?
It means jack.
Its not about the loss Fly...couldnt care less about the result but its the same old same old down forward....Waite and not much else unless we play Henderson down forward and that leaves a hole down back....
Wouldn't it be nice EB if there was a surprise in the pack that we didn't see coming? Like if Rowe had blitzed it today and snared 10 goals. If Menzel helped himself to 40 possies and 5 goals. It's been too predictable for too long.
JK...look I would love surprise but the only one I can see is Henderson and Waite playing most games and combining with X factor players like Walker and Menzel to give us some goalkicking power.
Rowe and Casboult look good for 15 minutes a game sometimes but then dissapear...I always have said that if you left Rowe at FF you might get something back as he can take the big mark and kick straight but its all dependent on delivery and him being the central target and making him work hard.
If someone can work out where Casboult is in his development let me know... a very frustrating player is Levi...great one grab mark, crape kick and like Rowe gives you a taste of something good everynow and then but its all too little. I am over them both......maybe Luke Reynolds can be a Crameri and give us some hope.
What EB said.....
I don't get too worked up over pre-season results but what I do like to see in this period is a player who gives us something a little more than they did the previous year.
I can't see a lot.
We will be a better side with the inclusion of a few new players from other clubs but whether that's significant enough to make a huge difference to our end of year position is doubtful.
We need a reasonably injury free season (and the signs are already looking a bit ominous with a number of players having injury interrupted pre-seasons)
..but more than anything we need a couple of players to give us some goal kicking power...and that's not obvious from what we've seen so far.
I'm also in the 'result doesn't matter' court, but... it has been the way we have lost which has been of concern.
You would reasonably expect Caboult to dominate at this time of year and make a case for senior selection. He hasn't given anything other than a teasing moment or two (of something good).
The way other sides (particularly the Dawks, Weasels and Bogansville/Adelaide) have been playing is what I would have hoped to have seen. We just about owned the last quarter yesterday but couldn't convert. No hiding that fact. The Dishlickers were gone and we couldn't put them away.
However, I do factor in who is missing from the side. Which only makes me worry more - that we seem to be still reliant on too few.
I am normally very optimistic at this time of year. But not this year.
We'll know soon enough with a bit more certainty - next w/e's game v. Port will be interesting and I'll be there.
However, I do factor in who is missing from the side. Which only makes me worry more - that we seem to be still reliant on too few.
That's one of the big problems as I see it.
Too many of our 'best' haven't had a proper pre-season.
I certainly dont get too hung up on win/loss during pre-season. A win or two is hady fro sure but we want blokes to be presisng fro selection...hard!
With regard to some blokes mentioned - Casboult and Rowe - I'd add others to that mix with the headline over their head "where do they sit" such as Lucas, McInnes, Bootsma, White. I'm a little unsure where some more senuor bloeks are at such as Kreuzer, Warnock, Yarran, Gibbs. Honestly, we need these blokes firing and to step out of the comfort zone and into the AFL top barcket. There are others too that need to join them. To me blokes such as Watson, Buckley and Ellard have stepped up a bit more and shown me they have a future and that they are pressing hard for a round 1 game against Port.
I think MM has a gently, gently or sorftly, softly approach at the moment. Slight changes on and off field and gradually get those things right and others such as game plan, unity, list management and the like.
@Pratty
To add to what you said about MM, I'm sure he's still evaluating the list in detail and sorting the sheep from the goats. Unless we see some major transformations in some players, especially those you've mentioned, there will be another big clear out for sure.
@Pratty
To add to what you said about MM, I'm sure he's still evaluating the list in detail and sorting the sheep from the goats. Unless we see some major transformations in some players, especially those you've mentioned, there will be another big clear out for sure.
Yep cook, Im not sure its MM's way to just cut the list in a big way in his 1st or 2nd season. he'll make changes but it's over a period of time, a few season even to get to where he wants it. Will need another season of getting the game plan into them and like you said osrting out who's who in the zoo. then more list changes at seasons end b4 maybe he's getting close to what he wants form his playing list. Let's remember....well this is my opinion anyway.....the list was not in great shape when he came and IMHO still has a way to go. good players there for sure and we can do ok this year but unless some play out of their skin then we might be middle of the pack.
@Pratty
To add to what you said about MM, I'm sure he's still evaluating the list in detail and sorting the sheep from the goats. Unless we see some major transformations in some players, especially those you've mentioned, there will be another big clear out for sure.
Yep cook, Im not sure its MM's way to just cut the list in a big way in his 1st or 2nd season. he'll make changes but it's over a period of time, a few season even to get to where he wants it. Will need another season of getting the game plan into them and like you said osrting out who's who in the zoo. then more list changes at seasons end b4 maybe he's getting close to what he wants form his playing list. Let's remember....well this is my opinion anyway.....the list was not in great shape when he came and IMHO still has a way to go. good players there for sure and we can do ok this year but unless some play out of their skin then we might be middle of the pack.
That's just about it in a nutshell Pratty.
@Pratty
To add to what you said about MM, I'm sure he's still evaluating the list in detail and sorting the sheep from the goats. Unless we see some major transformations in some players, especially those you've mentioned, there will be another big clear out for sure.
If he is still evaluating the list Cookie, then we are in real strife. At $800k a year you'd reckon bed worked it out by now.
BTW what have you got against goats >:D
@Pratty
To add to what you said about MM, I'm sure he's still evaluating the list in detail and sorting the sheep from the goats. Unless we see some major transformations in some players, especially those you've mentioned, there will be another big clear out for sure.
If he is still evaluating the list Cookie, then we are in real strife. At $800k a year you'd reckon bed worked it out by now.
BTW what have you got against goats >:D
I love goats Goat, especially in curry! Nah, only "kidding" ;D
No, I think MM is certainly still sorting out the list and a few will be under the microscope this year for sure. As you say though, he's probably got a fair idea but can't make too many changes all at once.
@Pratty
To add to what you said about MM, I'm sure he's still evaluating the list in detail and sorting the sheep from the goats. Unless we see some major transformations in some players, especially those you've mentioned, there will be another big clear out for sure.
If he is still evaluating the list Cookie, then we are in real strife. At $800k a year you'd reckon bed worked it out by now.
I don't think he is still evaluating the list.
I think he has evaluated it, and is now actioning a plan to transition from pretender to contender.
Despite how well it all clicked, we have not really been in the frame for a flag no matter how much people will say we were and the only time we have even given it a bit of a shake was in 2011, and we were still outclassed by the big boys that season.
Even with Fev in the side, you have to eliminate Henderson as a contributer which means at worst a small gain in profficiency with a major negative defensively.
Thats just the harsh reality of the situation. We (the fans) have overated our list, and I think the club has been guilty of taking the glass half full approach where Mick has shown them the harsh reality that we really are not good enough. Its not surprising really. We have drafted poorly, we have recruited about the same, and our developement has been roughly the same. It all equals a result of despite how good we could have been we never truly got near it.
I think there is still some degree of evaluation going on, otherwise why would the likes of Rowe and Casboult, to name but two, be getting so much pre-season game time?
@Thry Showing the harsh reality or he is just protecting his arse. Don't think many of us would have taken Mick at a million dollars a pop if you told us we wouldn't be top 4 in the following two years but let's see what comes.
Even with Fev in the side, you have to eliminate Henderson as a contributer which means at worst a small gain in profficiency with a major negative defensively.
Hendo had his breakout season last year, he had given us nowhere near the output of Fev prior to that and even last year he didn't come close to Fev at his best. Fev was a gamebreaker in the real sense of the word. He could kick you 4-5 goals in a quarter and win the game off his own boot. Hendo is well off that ATM but does promise plenty. Here's hoping.......
@LLT
I reckon we wouldn't have taken him had he told us he needed a year to evaluate the list either. That said, we did have one of our greatest finals victories ever last year so I'm willing to give him a chance for sure.
We beat Freo by 70 points in last year's pre-season comp, see how both teams fared in 2013.
There are some glaring deficiencies in our forward line, but as someone mentioned earlier, with the delivery the way it was even Tony Lockett would have struggled to get a goal.
It's not the end of the world, let the team structure settle as it would in the season proper (especially in the mid) and then make judgement.
Even with Fev in the side, you have to eliminate Henderson as a contributer which means at worst a small gain in profficiency with a major negative defensively.
Hendo had his breakout season last year, he had given us nowhere near the output of Fev prior to that and even last year he didn't come close to Fev at his best. Fev was a gamebreaker in the real sense of the word. He could kick you 4-5 goals in a quarter and win the game off his own boot. Hendo is well off that ATM but does promise plenty. Here's hoping.......
@LLT
I reckon we wouldn't have taken him had he told us he needed a year to evaluate the list either. That said, we did have one of our greatest finals victories ever last year so I'm willing to give him a chance for sure.
Henderson's back half of the ground stuff in the second half of 2011 was top shelf Carrots and the only reason why we did so well is because Jamison was in top form until round 14, where he went down injured against West Coast (only played in one more win for the season against the Bombers in the EF), and Henderson held up the backline key position pretty much on his own after that.
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/M/Michael_Jamison.html
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/L/Lachie_Henderson.html
Without Henderson, we would have struggled to finish the year in the 8 as Jamo was gone from rounds 15-21 and thats when Hendo came to the fore as a really good backman.
Our forwardline pulled everyone's pants down except the serious teams as it was multi faceted and mobile. You add Fevola that year, and we might have gone higher but you have to take Henderson out, and that leaves us with a backline consisting of Brett Thornton and not much else as key defenders. We would have been struggling.
You add Fevola that year
Fev didn't play a game in 2011 (I think, was sacked before the season started?) and played 2010 with Brisbane. Think we count our blessings that we got Lauchie rather than considering what if Fev had played because I dont think he would have.
Even with Fev in the side, you have to eliminate Henderson as a contributer which means at worst a small gain in profficiency with a major negative defensively.
Hendo had his breakout season last year, he had given us nowhere near the output of Fev prior to that and even last year he didn't come close to Fev at his best. Fev was a gamebreaker in the real sense of the word. He could kick you 4-5 goals in a quarter and win the game off his own boot. Hendo is well off that ATM but does promise plenty. Here's hoping.......
@LLT
I reckon we wouldn't have taken him had he told us he needed a year to evaluate the list either. That said, we did have one of our greatest finals victories ever last year so I'm willing to give him a chance for sure.
We just don't know what MM's brief was when he started with us. Even those both in and out of the club with the bluest of glasses surely realised that we had to do a lot of work on our list and that it would take some time. There has been much strident criticism on here about our past recruitment and development and if that was all true then it would surely be reflected in the quality of our list?
We just don't know what MM's brief was when he started with us. Even those both in and out of the club with the bluest of glasses surely realised that we had to do a lot of work on our list and that it would take some time.
Whilst it's possible that the comments coming out of the club were to keep the faithful interested, it is more likely that the club thought they were on track for a flag and just needed a few tweaks to get there. Everything points to that.
Personally, I think it just goes to show just how great a player Chris Judd is/was - the club's fortunes have been pretty much in step with his.
You add Fevola that year
Fev didn't play a game in 2011 (I think, was sacked before the season started?) and played 2010 with Brisbane. Think we count our blessings that we got Lauchie rather than considering what if Fev had played because I dont think he would have.
Which is exactly what I was saying to Carrots, thankyou for echoing my sentiment.
As for why we are paying Malthouse a million, for me the answer is simple.
We needed a strong figure who knew his way a football department and could tell us exactly where it was all going wrong.
Dont think of us recruiting Malthouse for a tilt at a flag. Thats just wishful thinking (which I was guilty of also). The reality is, that we turned to someone who is old hat in terms of instilling the culture required to get to the top end of the ladder and compete there continuously. Largely, whether or not you win the big dance is as much to do with downright fortune, as it is careful and methodical planning, and that is exactly what we are paying 1 million per year for.
Sure, we could have gone the route of the untested coach, or we could have stuck fat with Ratten, but at the end of the day, we went the road that looks to be the one that is transforming our football department. The one thing we can see, is that things are definately different.
According to Einstein's theory, the definition of insanity is to repeat the same process and expect different results. From the appointment of Andrew Mckay it appears as though the club is systematically going through each layer of our football club and seeing where we are deficient and making changes. Some will be for the better, some will not and go the opposite direction. I am comfortable seeing Malthouse in charge, as he knows how to assemble a department of blokes that know\have what it takes, and that is proven by the amount of Collingwood people that are well respected throughout the competition. More than one of his assistants have moved on to senior roles, with varying degrees of success.
Given we didnt seem to know where our problems were (developement, scouting, recruitment, coaching, game plan etc) an experienced operator was required. Given the other options, Im happy to have Malthouse, and the money we are spending on his wages are an afterthought for me. Its not like we can better use those funds elsewhere aside from debt demolition. May as well get someone who can help us review our overall operation and hopefully use his opinion to progress the brand of the Carlton Football Club and get it back to contender again.
@Thry, I don't think that's why Malthouse was brought in.
If he comes in and finds the place is a circus and needs to be cleaned up then that's the point where we need to step back and re-assess. The club still talks about premierships, it won't say "rebuild" let alone the entire place is in dire straits and needs sorting out. Certainly, nobody in management has been held to account for any structural disasters.
I would also be concerned at Mick being given this responsibility, it really isn't his role to sort that sort of stuff out. He has been in clubs which have had wonderful support and near limitless resources. That's not us, his experience doesn't align well with that and all our eggs are in the Malthouse basket.
Sure, make the investment to improve but give the right people the right responsibilities and hold them to account for the outcomes.
@Thry
Tend to share this view myself. MM is a coach/consultant if you like. The club, especially the footy dept, was in a mess after years of being run into the ground for all the reasons we are familiar with. Ratts unfortunately, just didn't have enough experience or force of personality to fix it - enter MM.
Yes, the ultimate goal is obviously to win a premiership as soon as possible. But I think that all at the club, especially the power brokers, realise that there is no quick fix. It will take patience, hard work and expertise.
@Thry, I don't think that's why Malthouse was brought in.
If he comes in and finds the place is a circus and needs to be cleaned up then that's the point where we need to step back and re-assess. The club still talks about premierships, it won't say "rebuild" let alone the entire place is in dire straits and needs sorting out. Certainly, nobody in management has been held to account for any structural disasters.
I would also be concerned at Mick being given this responsibility, it really isn't his role to sort that sort of stuff out. He has been in clubs which have had wonderful support and near limitless resources. That's not us, his experience doesn't align well with that and all our eggs are in the Malthouse basket.
Sure, make the investment to improve but give the right people the right responsibilities and hold them to account for the outcomes.
No club interested in making the most of itself talks about rebuilding. Its all about establishing a winning culture, without the need to bottom out.
The mentality you are alluding to re rebuilding is largely defeatist. We need to believe we are good enough to be at the big dance (and frankly we are not that far off) but we are in need of some overhaul.
FWIW, I would have been more pessimistic about someone guaranteeing you success. That reeks of arrogance. The Hawks have had the benefit of one of the best lists in the AFL since about 2008 and even they took about 5 bites at the cherry to lockaway an eventual 2nd premiership since that time. We have been also rans, and looking at our list, have the tag of promise, and looked like world beaters for a solitary few rounds during that same period.
Anyone guaranteeing you success is probably more salesman than coach. I think you are (rightly so) a little bit miffed, that you have been misled by the statements of our footy club and I was too, until I accepted what I can see in front of me. We are simply not as good as we think we were. There is no harm in that. We just need to embrace it, and work at improving it.
Really? Talking about fev again??
*sigh*
Bring on the first bounce!
@Thry, I don't think that's why Malthouse was brought in.
If he comes in and finds the place is a circus and needs to be cleaned up then that's the point where we need to step back and re-assess. The club still talks about premierships, it won't say "rebuild" let alone the entire place is in dire straits and needs sorting out. Certainly, nobody in management has been held to account for any structural disasters.
I would also be concerned at Mick being given this responsibility, it really isn't his role to sort that sort of stuff out. He has been in clubs which have had wonderful support and near limitless resources. That's not us, his experience doesn't align well with that and all our eggs are in the Malthouse basket.
Sure, make the investment to improve but give the right people the right responsibilities and hold them to account for the outcomes.
No club interested in making the most of itself talks about rebuilding. Its all about establishing a winning culture, without the need to bottom out.
The mentality you are alluding to re rebuilding is largely defeatist. We need to believe we are good enough to be at the big dance (and frankly we are not that far off) but we are in need of some overhaul.
FWIW, I would have been more pessimistic about someone guaranteeing you success. That reeks of arrogance. The Hawks have had the benefit of one of the best lists in the AFL since about 2008 and even they took about 5 bites at the cherry to lockaway an eventual 2nd premiership since that time. We have been also rans, and looking at our list, have the tag of promise, and looked like world beaters for a solitary few rounds during that same period.
Anyone guaranteeing you success is probably more salesman than coach. I think you are (rightly so) a little bit miffed, that you have been misled by the statements of our footy club and I was too, until I accepted what I can see in front of me. We are simply not as good as we think we were. There is no harm in that. We just need to embrace it, and work at improving it.
This is dancing around the issue with respect. I know its early in the season, but I have already stated based on my own analysis we unfortunately will not make the 8 this year.
The position is clear: if Carlton do not make the 8 this year, there will be a huge bust up at years end.
The Club has simply run out of excuses. These excuses include: (1) list is young (2) list has injuries (3) Coach inexperienced (4) Interstate Final (5) Home Final (6) Clubs 2003 penalties etc.... We have had 18 years with no Premiership and the Board's time is well and truly up. If Carlton do not make the 8, any excuses the Club makes will be just words......
Any side that has around 15 first round draft picks running around - with around 11 of them being top 10 (plus a FS with Waite who would have been a 1st rounder) and cannot make the 8 must be seriously under-performing. 'Der, thanks Baggers for stating the bloomin' obvious! Look out Mensa!!!' :o Easily, 9-10 of these 1st round draft picks are introverted. Trouble. Why? Way outa balance. Yep, bangin' that drum again.
We would be the most poorly performing club when you look at the number of 'stars' we have.
Our list starts off looking terrific then to drops off real quick. MM wants 30 to pick from (to carry through an entire season, winning... a challenging for September success). With us, he'd be lucky to have 24. Coupla injuries... knackered.
As some of us have identified previously, this must reflect badly on development.
As some of us have identified previously, this must reflect badly on recruiting the right blokes to support the 'stars.'
I'd be amazed if MM doesn't realise what he's inherited. Our recruiting last year indicated getting a bit more mongrel/size/flexibility into the place. And may take awhile to get a few more.
MM has also stated he wants to leave the place in better shape than when he arrived... gonna need to turnover more boys. Might have to lose some 'nice' boys to get a bit more 'Grunt (plug for NBs sponsor :) )' into the place.
Right, wrong, good, bad... doesn't matter, point is extroverts take to leadership easier than introverts. Doesn't mean they're better, just means they take to it easier.
Leadership, leadership, leadership. More of it needed throughout the club.
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)
Anyone guaranteeing you success is probably more salesman than coach. I think you are (rightly so) a little bit miffed, that you have been misled by the statements of our footy club and I was too, until I accepted what I can see in front of me. We are simply not as good as we think we were. There is no harm in that. We just need to embrace it, and work at improving it.
That's cool Thry but it's not that we aren't as good as we thought. It's that no one is held to account. I asked the board member who came on here about how he planned to implement the blueprint, how they're tracking and how they'd know they are on track to meet their goals and nothing but fluff.
The problem is very clear to me. The board is unable to get those under them to implement their vision. Instead, they throw their will out there and expect it to magically happen because, well just because they're successful and that must mean they're not the issue here. Well, their vision hasn't been implemented and now they''ve brought in Mick and they hope he can fix everything.
If he can't, and his experience is in building great teams, not footy departments, we're screwed and back in the wilderness. We are far too exposed to risk IMO.
Agreed IOT. The thing is though, until they implement the vision, how can they answer your questions?
Sometimes these sorts of plans are very broad and wide sweeping with not much they can say to you without being transparent. At the time you asked (I think it was Raphael Germinder) Ratten was still the senior coach. How do we know that reviewing his performance and making a decision on his coaching future wasnt one of the things required?
At the end of the day, these guys need to act as salesmen first, as they need to ensure that they protect the brand whilst doing what it takes (making the hard calls) to achieve whatever is laid out in the Blue print (which in itself I saw as a bit of a strategic plan, and as far as Im concerned, strategic plans are not worth the paper they are written on).
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)
And a depressive and an alcoholic. He was very good at self medicating! The Poms like their introverts... 'one should conduct one's self with decorum and dignity... one should.' :)
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)
And a depressive and an alcoholic. He was very good at self medicating! The Poms like their introverts... 'one should conduct one's self with decorum and dignity... one should.' :)
Not a bad bloke to have in a crisis though! Although, if you read Allanbrooke's autobiography, Churchill needed a lot of massaging to get the job done.
I'm an introvert but, at work I was at the extrovert end of the scale. Having lots of introverts shouldn't be a problem as long as they can develop their leadership and I think the club is well placed for that. Reading about how Judd has mentored Murphy fills me with confidence as far as leadership goes. Clunking marks and kicking goals is another matter!
Problem with some extroverts I've had dealings with is that they think everything is all about them. This can create problems in a team environment so IMHO it's not all upside with extroverts.
Sounds like a full forward we had on our list a few years back! :P
Problem with some extroverts I've had dealings with is that they think everything is all about them. This can create problems in a team environment so IMHO it's not all upside with extroverts.
Narcissism afflicts both introverts and extroverts, Fluffy Biscuit good buddy... just that the extroverted narcissist is more obvious. :)
Sounds like a full forward we had on our list a few years back! :P
Good example Carrots.
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)
And a depressive and an alcoholic. He was very good at self medicating! The Poms like their introverts... 'one should conduct one's self with decorum and dignity... one should.' :)
Not a bad bloke to have in a crisis though! Although, if you read Allanbrooke's autobiography, Churchill needed a lot of massaging to get the job done.
I'm an introvert but, at work I was at the extrovert end of the scale. Having lots of introverts shouldn't be a problem as long as they can develop their leadership and I think the club is well placed for that. Reading about how Judd has mentored Murphy fills me with confidence as far as leadership goes. Clunking marks and kicking goals is another matter!
It would be typical of us to blame our woes on lack of a certain personality type and again we would miss the point. Hawthorn are apparently a bunch of quiet, introverted types but it doesn't impact them on field.
Time for Carlton to stop looking for excuses and accept we are crape at identifying our weaknesses and in developing players and leaders.
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)
And a depressive and an alcoholic. He was very good at self medicating! The Poms like their introverts... 'one should conduct one's self with decorum and dignity... one should.' :)
Not a bad bloke to have in a crisis though! Although, if you read Allanbrooke's autobiography, Churchill needed a lot of massaging to get the job done.
I'm an introvert but, at work I was at the extrovert end of the scale. Having lots of introverts shouldn't be a problem as long as they can develop their leadership and I think the club is well placed for that. Reading about how Judd has mentored Murphy fills me with confidence as far as leadership goes. Clunking marks and kicking goals is another matter!
It would be typical of us to blame our woes on lack of a certain personality type and again we would miss the point. Hawthorn are apparently a bunch of quiet, introverted types but it doesn't impact them on field.
Time for Carlton to stop looking for excuses and accept we are crape at identifying our weaknesses and in developing players and leaders.
You're taking the p1ss, right? Gibson, Roughhead, Mitchell... they've a lot of 'personalities' at the club. They have a good balance on the leadership team of introverts and extroverts.
No one is '
blaming' introversion. The argument is about lack of balance in personality types and is only 1 factor in our troubles at present. Player development... recruiting... just to name another 2 factors impacting our lack of success.
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)
And a depressive and an alcoholic. He was very good at self medicating! The Poms like their introverts... 'one should conduct one's self with decorum and dignity... one should.' :)
Not a bad bloke to have in a crisis though! Although, if you read Allanbrooke's autobiography, Churchill needed a lot of massaging to get the job done.
I'm an introvert but, at work I was at the extrovert end of the scale. Having lots of introverts shouldn't be a problem as long as they can develop their leadership and I think the club is well placed for that. Reading about how Judd has mentored Murphy fills me with confidence as far as leadership goes. Clunking marks and kicking goals is another matter!
It would be typical of us to blame our woes on lack of a certain personality type and again we would miss the point. Hawthorn are apparently a bunch of quiet, introverted types but it doesn't impact them on field.
Time for Carlton to stop looking for excuses and accept we are crape at identifying our weaknesses and in developing players and leaders.
You're taking the p1ss, right? Gibson, Roughhead, Mitchell... they've a lot of 'personalities' at the club. They have a good balance on the leadership team of introverts and extroverts.
No one is 'blaming' introversion. The argument is about lack of balance in personality types and is only 1 factor in our troubles at present. Player development... recruiting... just to name another 2 factors impacting our lack of success.
I worked with Roughead's aunt and have met him a couple of times; both introverts, high achievers, but introverts.
It was fashionable for a while in staff recruitment to try to achieve a balance between introverts and extroverts but it turned out to be a complete waste of time. Most of the introverts could assume an extrovert personality if their role required it, and the introverts were often better at their jobs than the extroverts (some of whom talked their way into positions that were beyond their ability).
The balance between introverts and extroverts in our club is the least of our problems (if indeed it is a problem); I'd take an introvert who can get the footy and use it well ahead of an extrovert who gets the footy occasionally and makes poor decisions.
It doesn't seem that long ago that the club was criticised for engaging Leading Teams to develop players' self belief, team ethic and leadership; what's the point of that if they can't get the footy? Player development has been one of my hobbyhorses but, on reflection, we've done extremely well developing our rookie selections, and perhaps the short window between drafting and free agency has consigned player development to the history books. While we may bemoan our inability to recruit a key forward, they aren't exactly queuing up to be drafted.
Sometimes I yearn for the good old days when footballers just had to mark the footy, kick it long or stab pass it to a leading forward, dish out a decent hip and shoulder, or ride one from an opponent. ::)
You're taking the p1ss, right? Gibson, Roughhead, Mitchell... they've a lot of 'personalities' at the club. They have a good balance on the leadership team of introverts and extroverts.
Nope, words straight out of the coach's mouth and seems backed up by DJC. Easier to go on seeming than to have a good hard look at what's actually the issue.
Seems like Mclueless has been reading Baggers' posts.
As much as I am tempted to go into an analysis of what actually constitutes someone being an introvert and what consitutes being an extrovert, it would probably only add confusion to the discussion.
Plenty of extroverts can appear introverted if they're somewhat 'serious' by nature. And plenty of introverts can be outspoken and hence appear extroverted. There are degrees in each. Every extrovert has introverted qualities and vice versa. I've never met anyone who 100% either way... they'd be a freak. I'm about 55% extrovert and the rest introvert. And often you don't really know until they're tested... especially those, like moi, who are closer to being borderline. What I suspect MM, Sellars and others are saying when talking of our group being too introverted is actually more about bringing out the extroverted qualities in the group... nothing more complex than that. And a good way to bring out the extroverted qualities in an introvert is to get more natural extroverts into the group! Aint rocket surgery.
As an aside, the introvert v extrovert, as I've mentioned previously, is only one piece of the puzzle (psychologically speaking). If you go into the introvert v extrovert then you've also got to look at intuition v logic, strongly emotive types v strongly intellectual types and so on and so on and so on.
Roughhead might appear introverted but I bet he's slightly stronger in extroversion.
The most obvious example of an introvert in our club's history would be Bruce Doull - shunned attention. But was a perfectionist in many respects and that contributed much to his greatness (so whether he was an introvert or extrovert was irrelevant - if you were being pedantic you could say that footy gave the small extroverted part of Doully to come forward). Fev would be an obvious example of an extrovert - loved attention. His terrific physical talents contributed much to his success (which would have been much greater had he not had an addictive illness... another topic entirely). Complicated things, we humans.
Can't imagine Sellars reading our stuff for his public comments - far too much his own man and probably an extrovert... ;)
So we agree the issue is more about getting more out of what we have (or finding "better" players) than blaming introversion or extroversion as that's just an excuse? Excellent :P
Can't imagine Sellars reading our stuff for his public comments - far too much his own man and probably an extrovert... ;)
Have you heard him talk? Contradicts himself within the space of a sentence, doesn't make too much sense the majority of the time......at least IMO. Top bloke though.
Yep, I'm much happier talking about the qualities and behaviours that we want our blokes to display than to try to put labels on them. Much less complex and fraught - well at least for me anyway. :)
Can't imagine Sellars reading our stuff for his public comments - far too much his own man and probably an extrovert... ;)
Have you heard him talk? Contradicts himself within the space of a sentence, doesn't make too much sense the majority of the time......at least IMO. Top bloke though.
Happy to agree to disagree on this one Turnips Old Chap. I reckon he makes a lot of sense (when he's being serious). I see his insights/observations as beeing very grounded and strong in 'common sense'.