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Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #120 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)

And a depressive and an alcoholic. He was very good at self medicating! The Poms like their introverts... 'one should conduct one's self with decorum and dignity...  one should.'  :)
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17
 

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #121 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: DJC – on
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)

And a depressive and an alcoholic. He was very good at self medicating! The Poms like their introverts... 'one should conduct one's self with decorum and dignity...  one should.'  :)

Not a bad bloke to have in a crisis though!  Although, if you read Allanbrooke's autobiography, Churchill needed a lot of massaging to get the job done.

I'm an introvert but, at work I was at the extrovert end of the scale.  Having lots of introverts shouldn't be a problem as long as they can develop their leadership and I think the club is well placed for that.  Reading about how Judd has mentored Murphy fills me with confidence as far as leadership goes.  Clunking marks and kicking goals is another matter!
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #122 –
Problem with some extroverts I've had dealings with is that they think everything is all about them. This can create problems in a team environment so IMHO it's not all upside with extroverts.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #123 –
Sounds like a full forward we had on our list a few years back! :P
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #124 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Problem with some extroverts I've had dealings with is that they think everything is all about them. This can create problems in a team environment so IMHO it's not all upside with extroverts.

Narcissism afflicts both introverts and extroverts, Fluffy Biscuit good buddy... just that the extroverted narcissist is more obvious.  :)
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #126 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: DJC – on
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)

And a depressive and an alcoholic. He was very good at self medicating! The Poms like their introverts... 'one should conduct one's self with decorum and dignity...  one should.'  :)

Not a bad bloke to have in a crisis though!  Although, if you read Allanbrooke's autobiography, Churchill needed a lot of massaging to get the job done.

I'm an introvert but, at work I was at the extrovert end of the scale.  Having lots of introverts shouldn't be a problem as long as they can develop their leadership and I think the club is well placed for that.  Reading about how Judd has mentored Murphy fills me with confidence as far as leadership goes.  Clunking marks and kicking goals is another matter!

It would be typical of us to blame our woes on lack of a certain personality type and again we would miss the point. Hawthorn are apparently a bunch of quiet, introverted types but it doesn't impact them on field.

Time for Carlton to stop looking for excuses and accept we are crape at identifying our weaknesses and in developing players and leaders.

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #127 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: DJC – on
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)

And a depressive and an alcoholic. He was very good at self medicating! The Poms like their introverts... 'one should conduct one's self with decorum and dignity...  one should.'  :)

Not a bad bloke to have in a crisis though!  Although, if you read Allanbrooke's autobiography, Churchill needed a lot of massaging to get the job done.

I'm an introvert but, at work I was at the extrovert end of the scale.  Having lots of introverts shouldn't be a problem as long as they can develop their leadership and I think the club is well placed for that.  Reading about how Judd has mentored Murphy fills me with confidence as far as leadership goes.  Clunking marks and kicking goals is another matter!

It would be typical of us to blame our woes on lack of a certain personality type and again we would miss the point. Hawthorn are apparently a bunch of quiet, introverted types but it doesn't impact them on field.

Time for Carlton to stop looking for excuses and accept we are crape at identifying our weaknesses and in developing players and leaders.

You're taking the p1ss, right? Gibson, Roughhead, Mitchell... they've a lot of 'personalities' at the club. They have a good balance on the leadership team of introverts and extroverts.

No one is 'blaming' introversion. The argument is about lack of balance in personality types and is only 1 factor in our troubles at present. Player development... recruiting... just to name another 2 factors impacting our lack of success.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #128 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: DJC – on
Winston Churchill was an introvert :-)

And a depressive and an alcoholic. He was very good at self medicating! The Poms like their introverts... 'one should conduct one's self with decorum and dignity...  one should.'  :)

Not a bad bloke to have in a crisis though!  Although, if you read Allanbrooke's autobiography, Churchill needed a lot of massaging to get the job done.

I'm an introvert but, at work I was at the extrovert end of the scale.  Having lots of introverts shouldn't be a problem as long as they can develop their leadership and I think the club is well placed for that.  Reading about how Judd has mentored Murphy fills me with confidence as far as leadership goes.  Clunking marks and kicking goals is another matter!

It would be typical of us to blame our woes on lack of a certain personality type and again we would miss the point. Hawthorn are apparently a bunch of quiet, introverted types but it doesn't impact them on field.

Time for Carlton to stop looking for excuses and accept we are crape at identifying our weaknesses and in developing players and leaders.

You're taking the p1ss, right? Gibson, Roughhead, Mitchell... they've a lot of 'personalities' at the club. They have a good balance on the leadership team of introverts and extroverts.

No one is 'blaming' introversion. The argument is about lack of balance in personality types and is only 1 factor in our troubles at present. Player development... recruiting... just to name another 2 factors impacting our lack of success.

I worked with Roughead's aunt and have met him a couple of times; both introverts, high achievers, but introverts.

It was fashionable for a while in staff recruitment to try to achieve a balance between introverts and extroverts but it turned out to be a complete waste of time.  Most of the introverts could assume an extrovert personality if their role required it, and the introverts were often better at their jobs than the extroverts (some of whom talked their way into positions that were beyond their ability).

The balance between introverts and extroverts in our club is the least of our problems (if indeed it is a problem); I'd take an introvert who can get the footy and use it well ahead of an extrovert who gets the footy occasionally and makes poor decisions. 

It doesn't seem that long ago that the club was criticised for engaging Leading Teams to develop players' self belief, team ethic and leadership; what's the point of that if they can't get the footy?  Player development has been one of my hobbyhorses but, on reflection, we've done extremely well developing our rookie selections, and perhaps the short window between drafting and free agency has consigned player development to the history books.  While we may bemoan our inability to recruit a key forward, they aren't exactly queuing up to be drafted.

Sometimes I yearn for the good old days when footballers just had to mark the footy, kick it long or stab pass it to a leading forward, dish out a decent hip and shoulder, or ride one from an opponent.   ::)  
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #129 –
Quote from: Baggers – on


You're taking the p1ss, right? Gibson, Roughhead, Mitchell... they've a lot of 'personalities' at the club. They have a good balance on the leadership team of introverts and extroverts.


Nope, words straight out of the coach's mouth and seems backed up by DJC. Easier to go on seeming than to have a good hard look at what's actually the issue.

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #130 –
Seems like Mclueless has been reading Baggers' posts.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #131 –
As much as I am tempted to go into an analysis of what actually constitutes someone being an introvert and what consitutes being an extrovert, it would probably only add confusion to the discussion.

Plenty of extroverts can appear introverted if they're somewhat 'serious' by nature. And plenty of introverts can be outspoken and hence appear extroverted. There are degrees in each. Every extrovert has introverted qualities and vice versa. I've never met anyone who 100% either way... they'd be a freak. I'm about 55% extrovert and the rest introvert. And often you don't really know until they're tested... especially those, like moi, who are closer to being borderline. What I suspect MM, Sellars and others are saying when talking of our group being too introverted is actually more about bringing out the extroverted qualities in the group... nothing more complex than that. And a good way to bring out the extroverted qualities in an introvert is to get more natural extroverts into the group! Aint rocket surgery.

As an aside, the introvert v extrovert, as I've mentioned previously, is only one piece of the puzzle (psychologically speaking). If you go into the introvert v extrovert then you've also got to look at intuition v logic, strongly emotive types v strongly intellectual types and so on and so on and so on.

Roughhead might appear introverted but I bet he's slightly stronger in extroversion.

The most obvious example of an introvert in our club's history would be Bruce Doull - shunned attention. But was a perfectionist in many respects and that contributed much to his greatness (so whether he was an introvert or extrovert was irrelevant - if you were being pedantic you could say that footy gave the small extroverted part of Doully to come forward). Fev would be an obvious example of an extrovert - loved attention. His terrific physical talents contributed much to his success (which would have been much greater had he not had an addictive illness... another topic entirely). Complicated things, we humans.

Can't imagine Sellars reading our stuff for his public comments - far too much his own man and probably an extrovert... ;)
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #132 –
So we agree the issue is more about getting more out of what we have (or finding "better" players) than blaming introversion or extroversion as that's just an excuse? Excellent  :P

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #133 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Can't imagine Sellars reading our stuff for his public comments - far too much his own man and probably an extrovert... ;)

Have you heard him talk? Contradicts himself within the space of a sentence, doesn't make too much sense the majority of the time......at least IMO. Top bloke though.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Blues V Bulldogs @ Princes Park (Friday Arvo Match)

Reply #134 –
Yep, I'm much happier talking about the qualities and behaviours that we want our blokes to display than to try to put labels on them. Much less complex and fraught - well at least for me anyway.  :)
Reality always wins in the end.