Yes I know there's a minute to go - stuff it.
I think the euphoria of our win last week gave some people around here funny ideas. We were NEVER a chance against the Swans. We were gifted a place in the finals after a very average year. and we played an average and inexperienced team first up. Tonight was the yardstick, and we got an accurate measure of where we're at. I was hoping for another "honourable loss".
In a way, I'm glad this happened, because it gives me greater hope that the blowtorch will be applied to EVERYBODY, players and coaches, because they all stunk it up tonight. Players were crap, and so was Mick's coaching.
Don't let the junk time goals fool you. With their early injuries, Swans were never going to run out the game. They busted their balls to get a winning lead and hoped to play keepings off in the last.
And I hope Jamo's ok.
Scotto looked cooked, I reckon he will retire!
Bad luck blues!
Adios amigos!
Bad luck blues!
Adios amigos!
Bad luck!!!!
You can't win a finals game only playing one and a half quarters of good footy.
39 tackles in 4 quarters. F$uck me.
Not a great way to finish, but at least we didn't give up and get pounded. The last quarter was .... junk time, but at least it looked like we cared.
McVeigh with 41 possessions simply killed us. He always seems to. We need to work out some way of flattening him next time. We also need more talent, more faith and self belief, better coaching and everyone on the same page.
39 tackles in 4 quarters. F$uck me.
That is what killed it for me. We were soft and lazy. Should have lost by much more, even though we had more scoring shots.
The crosses have been constructed and erected - let the crucifixions begin. ;)
Little did those people know that calling us the "Bradbury Blues" could be so apt.
I just wanted to see a game of footy - not ice skating. I know the conditions were the same for both teams but you could see navy blue players slipping over in the periphery of almost every frame.
What a horrible year it's been for the AFL. Two teams in Sydney but STILL no suitable ground. Bl00dy pathetic.
And yeah, let the clean out begin.
Bad luck blues!
Adios amigos!
Bad luck!!!!
Were they supposed to be question marks????? Lol
Any decent sportsman will say bad luck to the the losing team. I'm not an exception!
Thanks Hirdy, you gave Mick a leg up this year.
He's had the chance to see players in finals so any trade he wants to make go for it but no BE excuses next year we must be a top 8 side as a bare minimum.
Swans way too good. Deserved the win. Yaz looked disinterested, casboult had zero impact. Didn't expect the win but disappointed with some of tge efforts
The gulf in class between the sides and the state of the ground made it an embarrassing night for the AFL.
208 quarters in finals and we hand him his first no score in a quarter in all that time. Mind you the Swans did the same in the last. Not an entertaining game at all. Too many passengers for us tonight.
Out of our league.
Hard to see some of these guys putting in the work to be a champion side. Mick has a lot of work to do.
I have said all season and I will continue to say it, we are the worst ball users in the league by some margin and that includes Melbourne, GWS and GC.
The crosses have been constructed and erected - let the crucifixions begin. ;)
bradder or hammer?
Thanks Hirdy, you gave Mick a leg up this year.
He's had the chance to see players in finals so any trade he wants to make go for it but no BE excuses next year we must be a top 8 side as a bare minimum.
Good point Goat, MM should have a very clear picture now of who stays and who goes and what we need to bring in. For the players who stay it has been a valuable and unexpected taste of finals footy. Thought Bell went OK, not great but was encouraged by his effort - invaluable experience for him.
can we get a new prez and CEO for starters?
4-6 of the spuds running around tonight won't be there next year, as for the rest -
how about having a fair dinkum go, simply disgraceful.
Best wishes Jamo, afl players assoc needs to act on this ground.
TIME FOR THE CLEANOUT
1. Reduce the Board to 7
2. Goodbye Kernahan and Swan
3. Goodbye Mckay
4. Goodbye Hughes and Rodgers
5. Goodbye 20 listed players
A poor effort by the boys tonight and I'm sure they are feeling it more than we are, they played a confused game, no co-ordination, very little self belief and very average skills, at times it was like watching a junior team against a team of men.
Some good efforts by some players but way too many poor ones, the less said the better.
It's funny because i'm not really that disappointed. I see it this way:
- The Scum got thrown out of the finals.
- We denied Richmond a win in their first finals appearance in 12 years (and we did it from ninth place)
- We went 1 week further than the Filth.
To me, that's not a bad season considering the amount of passengers we had in the team.
Now we'll have a good clean out, both players and personnel and come back stronger in 2014.
I don't care how intimidating the opponents are. What is wrong with laying tackles. We didn't even lay tackles to guys who were already on the deck.
Our bottom six players scored less rating points in total than McVeigh!
The crosses have been constructed and erected - let the crucifixions begin. ;)
bradder or hammer?
Let's go with the bradder - less labour intensive and quicker!
This list won't win a flag. That much is clear. Just how deep do we need to cut is the question.
I don't care how intimidating the opponents are. What is wrong with laying tackles. We didn't even lay tackles to guys who were already on the deck.
Agree - it seems so obvious and simple. Don't know what was wrong with the boys tonight. They just weren't there on any level.
Conditions suited the Swans with their heavier bigger mids and we at no stage had control of the midfield and that was the end of the game.....
Need to concentrate on the trade/free agency period and score some players who can fill the holes on the list and move players on who wont make it or wont improve...
Mick is ropeable. Lack of ticker, no want.
Mick is ropeable. Lack of ticker, no want.
he was and looked very angry with Robbo. In fact he sent a message out to Robbo via the runner a few times tonight.
Yes we were touched up in the midfield but our forward structure and entry into our F50 was again atrocious. We haven't learned a bl00dy thing - ill directed long bombs often to the smallest player on the field or to Waite who was surrounded by 3 opponents - same old same old stuff that we all know does not effin' work. The best delivery all night was from I think Yarran - a perfect pass to advantage for Casboult who promptly fumbled and dropped the mark - aaargh!
Mick is ropeable. Lack of ticker, no want.
He may well be, but some of it has to fall on his shoulders. The Malthouse apologists constantly claim it was their man that did the business when we win, but it's the players fault when we lose.
Did anybody else think our players looked lost and confused tonight ?
Watched the game here in Melbourne at my sisters 50th birthday party at Browns Corner Hotel in Coburg.
Didn't handle the slippery conditions whatsoever, got the game smacked away from us in the third when they kicked 5.2 to our 0.0, refused to chase and apply pressure to their ball-carriers and ended up getting a lesson in finals footy.
Casboult was a complete non-event when I expected him to throw some weight around, Scotland looked slow and Warnick showed that he can't play two good'uns in a row.
Tipping the Tigers out was worth being there but tonight showed once again that we are still a level below the 'Big Boys'.
Really looking forward to Trade Week with a vengeance now.
One thing MM has to stop is those goals scored against inside the last 30 seconds or so - was it Bolton who dribbled one through with 2 secs left on the clock? They crape me to tears because you just KNOW we're susceptible. No composure/leadership
Malthouse has stated that our midfield is not physical and hard enough
He mentioned he needed 5 new midfielders
He mentioned 5 to 10 picks to get new players
He will not go the quick fix for MM
Swan Hughes and Rodgers should all accept responsibility for this situation and all resign.
Need to be duper aggressive come trade week. We can go on overrating our list and prob finish 6-10 for the next 5 years. It's now time to be brave, very few players off limits IMO. This is not a top 4 side and n it's not a young team anymore
He mentioned 5 to 10 picks to get new players
He will not go the quick fix for MM
In reality the Judd deal crippled the club, but I would do it again in a heart beat.
As for that MM statement, Judd / Scotto / Carrazzo / Simmo and Waite will all retire without a game in the big danced for the Navy Blue!
2019 before we get another crack, GWS and GC have golden years to come for the next half a decade.
Need to be duper aggressive come trade week. We can go on overrating our list and prob finish 6-10 for the next 5 years. It's now time to be brave, very few players off limits IMO. This is not a top 4 side and n it's not a young team anymore
We don't have a top 4 administration as well
That's the crux of the problem
If Port Adelaide can get a new President, CEO and Coach and go from bottom to 5th in one year that is all the evidence you need.....
When the kitchen gets hot, we go of the boil. Sydney gave us a lesson in hard, physical footy.
Our Midfield again rattled with pressure, none of our leaders lifted.
McVeigh he was all class and he never says DIE.
He mentioned 5 to 10 picks to get new players
He will not go the quick fix for MM
In reality the Judd deal crippled the club, but I would do it again in a heart beat.
As for that MM statement, Judd / Scotto / Carrazzo / Simmo and Waite will all retire without a game in the big danced for the Navy Blue!
2019 before we get another crack, GWS and GC have golden years to come for the next half a decade.
Oh we had a Blue Print in 2011 that said 2 Premierships by 2014.
So who in the Club is going to accept responsibility for the present situation and fall on their sword?
If Port Adelaide can get a new President, CEO and Coach and go from bottom to 5th in one year that is all the evidence you need.....
Too simple an outlook I am afraid.
I expect Port to suffer the 2nd year blues for lots of those kids now that every club has seen them at least once.
Wow settle down everyone! All teams come from nowhere and build, we can't just clean out half our team and get superstars in their place!
We need confidence and with a million dollar coach, he should know how to get the best out of every player - so far, he hasn't done that so over to you MM, go for it! Instil the confidence they need and the future does look bright.
Someone earlier asked if anyone else noticed how confused out team was - absolutely - and again we get smashed when we look like that. Very proud of the boys, tough ask tonight, that ground was not even suitable for primary school
Footy FFS. Bring on 2014
If Port Adelaide can get a new President, CEO and Coach and go from bottom to 5th in one year that is all the evidence you need.....
Too simple an outlook I am afraid.
I expect Port to suffer the 2nd year blues for lots of those kids now that every club has seen them at least once.
If we had a top flight President, CEO, Recruiter, List Manager and Coach the Club would in a position to push for a Premiership in 5 years.
If nothing changes, we are looking at another 10 years of pain because GC and GWS are heading in to their glory years...
In reality the Judd deal crippled the club, but I would do it again in a heart beat.
Yep, in retrospect, I have to agree with you. It's been a privilege having him in the team and watching him play but it seems the flowchart diagram on the whiteboard in the board room was:
a. get Judd
b. win Premiership
c. pat eachother on the back
Think there were a few steps missing between 'a' and 'b'.
In reality the Judd deal crippled the club, but I would do it again in a heart beat.
Yep, in retrospect, I have to agree with you. It's been a privilege having him in the team and watching him play but it seems the flowchart diagram on the whiteboard in the board room was:
a. get Judd
b. win Premiership
c. pat eachother on the back
Think there were a few steps missing between 'a' and 'b'.
Hehe! I think there may have been another step between a and b - "And then a miracle will happen".
That was a roller coaster season. We varied between commitment and skill, and total lack of commitment, work ethic and skill. sometimes within the same game. Not alot in-between. Had some good wins, terrible losses, the thrill of taking Essendope's place in the finals with that stirring last qtr after a gutless first half against Port, knocking out Richmond in the same fashion, finishing above Collingwood, then insipid efforts like tonight with no ticker or want. Importantly we got the thrill of winning a final but the playing like dogs the next week so the cracks aren't wallpapered over.
All of the above summed up the club. Certainly ability, as we've shown quite, even in some losses, but a lack of consistent work ethic, consistent attitude and culture making that ability often worthless.
The most perplexing, crazy season imaginable.
My wife watched all of tonights game and watched our entire season as a roller coaster and summed it up in one sentence. Its like watching a suicide in slow motion. You know what is going to happen but have to wait way too long to see the final result. The game against Sydney was exactly that. I don't know where Mick has to start. He has to start somewhere and get this side back on track in terms of work ethic fast. No more up and down yoyo footy. No more fluke wins. No more close losses. No more close but no cigar. No more soft c0ck footy.
In my hotel room after getting back from then game, so friggin disappointed in just about everything that happened out there tonight. Two men down they were, it was ours for the taking, pathetic. Ignoring McVeigh, are you kidding me?
At least tonight gives Mick the clearer picture he needs once and for all with this list. Time to act. Time to decide who stays and who goes, with every player who stays - time to decide what each of them needs to work on over the off season, cos most of them have glaring deficiencies.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that about half-a-dozen of the blokes who took the field tonight have played their last game in navy blue.
The game started so well, but that about it. Who tests the surface before the game? The whole friggin team did the warmup out there - hello, was it not dewy at that time you morons? The number of players, our players, slipping over under little or no pressure, time and time again and costing us goals. Seriously, what is going on between their ears? Yarran finally changes boots halfway through the third quarter.....it's a bit late then numb nut!
Yet again Simmo leads the way, yet again little or no support from others. I never wanna see Casboult in a navy blue guernsey again - the jury is in and you've been found guilty of impersonating a professional footballer. Garlett....seriously, that's the best you can do in a final? McInnes - wtf has happened to this bloke? I cringe every time he's near the ball now.
Scoreboard flattered us in the end as the Swans were eyeing off next week, but even then we butchered the ball in front of goal like we've been routinely doing all year.
Fcuk me, I need a break......
In reality the Judd deal crippled the club, but I would do it again in a heart beat.
Yep, in retrospect, I have to agree with you. It's been a privilege having him in the team and watching him play but it seems the flowchart diagram on the whiteboard in the board room was:
a. get Judd
b. win Premiership
c. pat eachother on the back
Think there were a few steps missing between 'a' and 'b'.
Without Judd we were the Bulldogs for ten years.
He brought the 3 P's
A.. Professionalism
B.. Profile
C.. Performance
Money well spent!!
Wow fire up Mick!
I don't blame the playing surface for our loss, but I did think that the Swannies handled it a lot better.
Very disappointed with our lack of intensity in the 1st 3 qtr's.
Here's hoping we're bigger and better in 2014 !! Go Blues!!!!!!!
McInnes should be one of those delisted, clearly not up to it mentally, never mind skill. Makes you wonder, surely Laidler could have done a better job had been treated properly? McInnes was a huge weak link for us since the Bummers debacle.
Is Malthouse too negative? Apparently he gave them a roasting at quarter time for conceding that goal but the effort they had put in was good up to that point, after the roasting they dropped off. Perhaps a little positive reinforcement would have been a better approach? Just sayin.......
No LRT, no Shaw, no Goodes, no McGlynn, hardly any Tippett, rotations massively in our favour, Simmo's 200th, and then this ?
Sorry, none of us know what goes on behind the scenes, but something is massively wrong somewhere. And it's not to do with class, and it's not to do with skill. Rarely have I seen a team so mentally and emotionally dejected from the first bounce of a final.
When Ratts was coach, and the team would put in a performance like this, I would come on here and read post after post after post about how it's the coaches job to get the players up for a game, in the correct mindset blah blah blah. Last night was as incorrect a mindset as you could imagine. So how about it, Mick ?
Actually, at one point I thought they were throwing the game.
Simmo, I salute you and I apologize for the woeful effort. You, of all people, deserve better.
I thought the effort was definitely there in the first quarter. What happened after that is anyone's guess.
He mentioned 5 to 10 picks to get new players
He will not go the quick fix for MM
In reality the Judd deal crippled the club, but I would do it again in a heart beat.
Judd cost us a small fortune, but what he brought to the club can't be measured simply in on field performances. I don't recant for a minute. Whatever deficiencies we have in KPF forwards etc. , Judd brought more to this club than a dozen Josh Kennedys ever could.
In reality the Judd deal crippled the club, but I would do it again in a heart beat.
Yep, in retrospect, I have to agree with you. It's been a privilege having him in the team and watching him play but it seems the flowchart diagram on the whiteboard in the board room was:
a. get Judd
b. win Premiership
c. pat eachother on the back
Think there were a few steps missing between 'a' and 'b'.
Without Judd we were the Bulldogs for ten years.
He brought the 3 P's
A.. Professionalism
B.. Profile
C.. Performance
Money well spent!!
Exactly, but there is no doubt $1M wages cripple a club, that is 2 or 3 good mids or 2 or 3 good KPPs.
Based on our experience if we pay someone like Betts overs we are doomed. As much as many of you would love to see him stay it is the disproportionately high wages paid to some players that cripple a club.
The Dawks understand this, and that is why Buddy will go despite his abilities. We are one of the stupid clubs that would pay him what he wants!
$1M dollars to one player, or $1M dollars to three good players, as supporters you must decide because it is the bitching, membership burning and complaining of paid up members that will ultimately steer the club.
A rhetorical question, how many of those Swans mids that worked us over like patsies do you think you can get for $1M???
In reality the Judd deal crippled the club, but I would do it again in a heart beat.
Yep, in retrospect, I have to agree with you. It's been a privilege having him in the team and watching him play but it seems the flowchart diagram on the whiteboard in the board room was:
a. get Judd
b. win Premiership
c. pat eachother on the back
Think there were a few steps missing between 'a' and 'b'.
Without Judd we were the Bulldogs for ten years.
He brought the 3 P's
A.. Professionalism
B.. Profile
C.. Performance
Money well spent!!
Exactly, but there is no doubt $1M wages cripple a club, that is 2 or 3 good mids or 2 or 3 good KPPs.
Based on our experience if we pay someone like Betts overs we are doomed. As much as many of you would love to see him stay it is the disproportionately high wages paid to some players that cripple a club.
The Dawks understand this, and that is why Buddy will go despite his abilities. We are one of the stupid clubs that would pay him what he wants!
$1M dollars to one player, or $1M dollars to three good players, as supporters you must decide because it is the bitching, membership burning and complaining of paid up members that will ultimately steer the club.
A rhetorical question, how many of those Swans mids that worked us over like patsies do you think you can get for $1M???
To some extent I agree but you need to remember the state we were in. Judd brought in some hope, he changed the attitude of the playing group, especially the young players and importantly, he brought in a flood of cash.
The rules were also different then, we were in the mindset of rebuilding and not trading in players unless they were a Judd quality player anyway and we had cap room to burn.
The guy is about 75% of the player he was and he'll come in the top 3 in the B&F - maybe even win it. There were so many games he won off his own boot that I reckon we'd still be in the bottom 6-8 without him. We'd be Melbourne and I suspect they'd pay someone 2 mil a year if it meant pulling them out of their 7 year bottom 5 finish run and into the finals 4 times.
I am raising this argument because in my opinion.
If we pay overs to players like Betts, too much for players like Daisey or get raped by GWS on picks trying to get a KPP like Boyd we are dead in the water for another 5~10 years.
We were absolutely smashed in the midfield. I know we need a power forward, but we also have glaring holes through the midfield. The Swans have 8-10 bona fide mids that can rotate through the middle, wings and flanks: McVeigh, O'Keefe, Kennedy, Jack, Parker, Hannebery, Mitchell, Jetta, Bird. Most of these Swans players are tough, have good disposal, kick goals, can play inside and outside, stick tackles and run both ways (Jetta is an exception on toughness and inside footy, but that's not his role). Our midfield group is so far behind!
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that about half-a-dozen of the blokes who took the field tonight have played their last game in navy blue.
I think that's fanciful to be honest.
Realistically a cub can recruit two or three good players in any one off season, on top of that they can draft or rookie three or four promising kids who may or may not make the grade, so any cuts to the list are limited to 6 or 8 players, any more and you just replace hacks with hacks.
There were at least four senior listed players not in last night's side, maybe as many as five or six, who will probably play very little senior football if they stay on the list, offhand I'd name Ellard, Joseph, Rowe, Mitchell, Davies and McCarthy as almost certain to be delisted, and Laidler and Hampson must be on shaky ground.
Most if not all of the players who played last night will still be on the list next season.
Not the best weekend to choose to play insipid football.
We need to make changes and probably more than we'd like if we're to stay in the top half of the competition.
Two are a must. Yarran traded and Murphy replaced as captain. A functioning and cohesive forward line might help as well.
Has anybody else watched Mick's post match presser on afl.com.au ? He seemed pretty accepting, almost relaxed to be honest. Bizarre.
Not the best weekend to choose to play insipid football.
We need to make changes and probably more than we'd like if we're to stay in the top half of the competition.
Two are a must. Yarran traded and Murphy replaced as captain. A functioning and cohesive forward line might help as well.
I agree about Yarran - think he will need to be traded to get the player types we need more! Don't know so much about Murph. Eddie may well be gone too under FA.
Not the best weekend to choose to play insipid football.
We need to make changes and probably more than we'd like if we're to stay in the top half of the competition.
Two are a must. Yarran traded and Murphy replaced as captain. A functioning and cohesive forward line might help as well.
I agree about Yarran - think he will need to be traded to get the player types we need more! Don't know so much about Murph. Eddie may well be gone too under FA.
To trade the most Skilful player on our list we'd want a Shuey, or a top 5 pick, or a Jonathon Patton. And then risk a fallout with the remaining amigos, Garlett back to WA and Betts back to SA
Not the best weekend to choose to play insipid football.
We need to make changes and probably more than we'd like if we're to stay in the top half of the competition.
Two are a must. Yarran traded and Murphy replaced as captain. A functioning and cohesive forward line might help as well.
I agree about Yarran - think he will need to be traded to get the player types we need more! Don't know so much about Murph. Eddie may well be gone too under FA.
To trade the most Skilful player on our list we'd want a Shuey, or a top 5 pick, or a Jonathon Patton. And then risk a fallout with the remaining amigos, Garlett back to WA and Betts back to SA
See where you're coming from BA but Eddie is likely to leave anyway under FA and Yarran would indeed net us the type of hard working midfielder we need. I like Yarran's highlight reel - some great stuff on there with great skills on display, but he just doesn't do it consistently enough when it really matters, and he doesn't turn games around for us. We're at the point now where very hard decisions will need to be made unfortunately. Yazza to me is the cream - its our cake that needs a lot of work.
We will regret losing Yaz if we trade him.
Saying he doesn't change the game etc - he's 22 fgs, how many times have Gibbs or Murph changed a game for us - very very rarely. Give the guy a break, he'll come good and we want him to come good for us.
We will regret losing Yaz if we trade him.
Saying he doesn't change the game etc - he's 22 fgs, how many times have Gibbs or Murph changed a game for us - very very rarely. Give the guy a break, he'll come good and we want him to come good for us.
I agree, if you looked at McVeigh when he was Yarran's age they would be almost identical in terms of roles and output. What McVeigh did tonight is what Yarran has in his future. In my opinion it is only a sign of impatience and being reactionary to demand he be traded, but that is clearly the general feeling here on this forum. But thankfully the posters here do not run the club!
Gibbs is now playing football we know he can play, and Murphy has been OK despite being injured and missing a pre-season. Both are long term A Grade players with many years of football left!
Next year Murphy with some good luck, and all players need good luck, will be a star of the competition!
McVeigh with 20 possessions in a quarter!?!? In a final?!?!
Not sure whether to laugh or cry about that. How did that happen?
It is beyond me how teams like the Swans can have a spare man (or two) down back yet, when they surge forward, all you can see is red and white. Actually, I do know how it happens - it's called running.
When does pre-season start?
McVeigh with 20 possessions in a quarter!?!? In a final?!?!
Not sure whether to laugh or cry about that. How did that happen?
It is beyond me how teams like the Swans can have a spare man (or two) down back yet, when they surge forward, all you can see is red and white. Actually, I do know how it happens - it's called running.
When does pre-season start?
No laughing matter at all. If there was one player that needed tagging last night, it was him. Frewheeling most of the game was insane.
McVeigh with 20 possessions in a quarter!?!? In a final?!?!
Not sure whether to laugh or cry about that. How did that happen?
It is beyond me how teams like the Swans can have a spare man (or two) down back yet, when they surge forward, all you can see is red and white. Actually, I do know how it happens - it's called running.
When does pre-season start?
More importantly when does trade week and the free agency period start? Then the draft, then the rookies then then the psd then christmas and and watching cricket wishing it was footy season and then pre season and then geez he's bulked up or geez he's slimmed down and then and then and then
We smash Ninthmond!!!!! >:D
What news on our injuries ?
We will regret losing Yaz if we trade him.
Saying he doesn't change the game etc - he's 22 fgs, how many times have Gibbs or Murph changed a game for us - very very rarely. Give the guy a break, he'll come good and we want him to come good for us.
We need to reinforce the bedrock of our team and sacrifices may need to be made in order to do that. All I'm saying is that Yarran may well have to be one of them in order to get the bedrock players we need. Yarran IMO needs to be in a team atm where that bedrock already exists - then he could be really good. Maybe the timing is just wrong for him at the Blues? He's probably one of our most tradeable players and hence he may be one of the trades we have to make.
I would be very reluctant to trade Yarran. I really believe his best footy is played from the HBF or from a wing. Playing as a small fwd can be a very tough gig, trying to get yourself involved in games consistently which is his problem when played there.
Remember in 2012 he was an AA chance, playing off the HBF, before he got injured about half way through the year. His run and carry from there was sublime and the opposition were trying hard to tag him out of games.
Not the best weekend to choose to play insipid football.
We need to make changes and probably more than we'd like if we're to stay in the top half of the competition.
Two are a must. Yarran traded and Murphy replaced as captain. A functioning and cohesive forward line might help as well.
I agree about Yarran - think he will need to be traded to get the player types we need more! Don't know so much about Murph. Eddie may well be gone too under FA.
To trade the most Skilful player on our list we'd want a Shuey, or a top 5 pick, or a Jonathon Patton. And then risk a fallout with the remaining amigos, Garlett back to WA and Betts back to SA
No arguments there .... when I speak of trading Yarran, it must (or at least should) be on our terms. He has currency and now might be the time to make some hard decisions to secure what we need.
As for Marc, I'm just not sure he's captaincy material and perhaps the burden is compromising his game.
The market is flooded with teams seeking to improve their lists, but the undeniable fact is that the talent pool is way too thin to satisfy anything more than modest ambitions.
I would be very reluctant to trade Yarran. I really believe his best footy is played from the HBF or from a wing. Playing as a small fwd can be a very tough gig, trying to get yourself involved in games consistently which is his problem when played there.
Remember in 2012 he was an AA chance, playing off the HBF, before he got injured about half way through the year. His run and carry from there was sublime and the opposition were trying hard to tag him out of games.
Yes he can without doubt look good Benny but for me, and maybe I'm being very hard on him, he is candy floss. He looks real good when we are on top but you don't notice him anywhere near as much when it gets really tough - in other words, to me he is a natural front runner and I would really question his inner reserves of mental toughness. Anyway, we'll see - I would love to be proved wrong for sure.
I deliberately didn't look at the forums after getting home from the game, I was too gropable and din't want to say too much that I would regret.
I have calmed down a little bit this morning... Still bitterly disappointed though, not so much with the result, I thought we were long shots to win, but with the effort.
Apart from the first quarter, and a few guys in the last quarter, I thought our boys again showed a lack of heart, a lack of passion... Our boys simply don't work hard enough. One notable exception INHO was Judd, who even though he failed to really make too much of an impact, clearly worked harder than anyone else in blue. I think I saw one kick to him that was placed to his advantage all night.
I lost count of how many guys I saw throw arms out in a vague "attempt" at a "tackle", but seriously, there was no real effort or desire in any of those attempts.
I saw guys running behind their man all night, and I mean in attack as well as in defence.
We just don't work hard enough, I'll say it again. No run trying to create space. No protection for the guy with the ball, none of our guys will make the effort to shadow their opponent, and seemingly little desire in defence and tackling.
Special ire reserved for:
Warnock- inneffectual. Some people call him a witches hat, he aint a witches hat, at least most people deviate for a witches hat. He just clogs space. His hitout numbers are an absolute misrepresentation of how well he goes in the ruck,and the rest of his numbers do absolute justice to his impact around the ground. Slightly above average game against Port 2 weeks ago, and against the Tiges last week, highlights of his career at Carlton. Cannot believe we will likely get rid of Hampson to keep this spud.
McInnes- Problem with this guy is that he actually looks like he gives a crap, which probably means skillwise he just isn't up to AFL standard. Seriously, at times he just looks like one of those AusKick kids who is struggling to know where to stand or what to do.
Casboult- Nope. Worst kick I have ever seen at Carlton. From across the other side of the ground I cringed at his ball drop on a kick that sailed over the boundary on the full. He seems very slow to me, and although he has shown an ability to take a mark, he does it far to inconsistenmtly enough. Also shows a lack of awareness and poor positional play.
If we hadn't made finals, I would have said we should delist noth of these guys, however given that bonus of 2 games of finals experience, I think we should keep Casboult on the list one more year, just in case, and get him some intensive coaching in kicking and running in the off season.When he isn't running sprints he should be kicking a ball. McINnes is dead weight and should go back to wherever he came from.
And while I am in the ranting mood... Robbo... Just when he was starting to look like he was starting to have more awareness and more thought entering his game, he pulls out a shocker. Back to his poor, poor disposal. Seriously, you could never knock his courage or effort, but he negates all of that with poor vision and disposal. I think he might be traded if we can find a new home for him.
I feel a bit slack picking out these 4 for sprays, but they are the ones that stood out for me as being particularly poor.
Yarran was his disinterested self too and I am a lot more open to trading him as well after last night, I just know what he is capable of and would hate to see us being hurt by him at some stage.
I deliberately didn't look at the forums after getting home from the game, I was too gropable and din't want to say too much that I would regret.
I have calmed down a little bit this morning... Still bitterly disappointed though, not so much with the result, I thought we were long shots to win, but with the effort.
Apart from the first quarter, and a few guys in the last quarter, I thought our boys again showed a lack of heart, a lack of passion... Our boys simply don't work hard enough. One notable exception INHO was Judd, who even though he failed to really make too much of an impact, clearly worked harder than anyone else in blue. I think I saw one kick to him that was placed to his advantage all night.
I lost count of how many guys I saw throw arms out in a vague "attempt" at a "tackle", but seriously, there was no real effort or desire in any of those attempts.
I saw guys running behind their man all night, and I mean in attack as well as in defence.
We just don't work hard enough, I'll say it again. No run trying to create space. No protection for the guy with the ball, none of our guys will make the effort to shadow their opponent, and seemingly little desire in defence and tackling.
Special ire reserved for:
Warnock- inneffectual. Some people call him a witches hat, he aint a witches hat, at least most people deviate for a witches hat. He just clogs space. His hitout numbers are an absolute misrepresentation of how well he goes in the ruck,and the rest of his numbers do absolute justice to his impact around the ground. Slightly above average game against Port 2 weeks ago, and against the Tiges last week, highlights of his career at Carlton. Cannot believe we will likely get rid of Hampson to keep this spud.
McInnes- Problem with this guy is that he actually looks like he gives a crap, which probably means skillwise he just isn't up to AFL standard. Seriously, at times he just looks like one of those AusKick kids who is struggling to know where to stand or what to do.
Casboult- Nope. Worst kick I have ever seen at Carlton. From across the other side of the ground I cringed at his ball drop on a kick that sailed over the boundary on the full. He seems very slow to me, and although he has shown an ability to take a mark, he does it far to inconsistenmtly enough. Also shows a lack of awareness and poor positional play.
If we hadn't made finals, I would have said we should delist noth of these guys, however given that bonus of 2 games of finals experience, I think we should keep Casboult on the list one more year, just in case, and get him some intensive coaching in kicking and running in the off season.When he isn't running sprints he should be kicking a ball. McINnes is dead weight and should go back to wherever he came from.
And while I am in the ranting mood... Robbo... Just when he was starting to look like he was starting to have more awareness and more thought entering his game, he pulls out a shocker. Back to his poor, poor disposal. Seriously, you could never knock his courage or effort, but he negates all of that with poor vision and disposal. I think he might be traded if we can find a new home for him.
I feel a bit slack picking out these 4 for sprays, but they are the ones that stood out for me as being particularly poor.
Yarran was his disinterested self too and I am a lot more open to trading him as well after last night, I just know what he is capable of and would hate to see us being hurt by him at some stage.
Got tickets on yourself Deags, after games....haha......ropeable.
I would be very reluctant to trade Yarran. I really believe his best footy is played from the HBF or from a wing. Playing as a small fwd can be a very tough gig, trying to get yourself involved in games consistently which is his problem when played there.
Remember in 2012 he was an AA chance, playing off the HBF, before he got injured about half way through the year. His run and carry from there was sublime and the opposition were trying hard to tag him out of games.
Yes he can without doubt look good Benny but for me, and maybe I'm being very hard on him, he is candy floss. He looks real good when we are on top but you don't notice him anywhere near as much when it gets really tough - in other words, to me he is a natural front runner and I would really question his inner reserves of mental toughness. Anyway, we'll see - I would love to be proved wrong for sure.
Cookie, I see your point about him playing well when the team plays well. I guess, I'm being pretty optimistic about his future and what he could be.
@ Deags - great summary mate have to agree with all that although I am hesitant of getting rid of Yarran as he is one of the few that can actually kick the ball. Two key areas which were glaring problems last night were our run and our disposal. I get the impression from Mick he is of the same opinion. I just hope the new recruiting guy we got from Geelong knows what he;s doing.
Why would we trade Yarran ??
Why would we trade Yarran ??
because he's a liability.
Why would we trade Yarran ??
because he's a liability.
Not necessarily. He's had a radical change to his own perceived role this season and seems to have accepted it now, but is still very much a work in progress. For a player of his immense talent he is still a very lazy footballer something which I'm sure MM believes he can change.
I thought Yazz was one of the few that lifted and gave us some sort of spark, I reckon there were a good 15 players that were worse than him last night. Not his fault the ground constantly gave way in the third quarter. I thought other than those two unfortunate situations his tackling was really good. 23 touches in a game where we struggled to get our hands on the pill, there were a lot worse out there.
Interesting Murph had 0 tackles again in a final WTF? Just not good enough for a mid. I see no one is willing to question that though.
In the end we had more scoring shots so considering how down we were on the night we still could have done a little better.
Yeah Yazz did alright last night 23 touches 10 marks and 8 I50s. if only he had of 3 goals instead of 3 behinds it might of been a different story
What news on our injuries ?
Jamo will miss next week with concussion, Curnow with a knee, Garlett with a leg problem.....who the fcuk cares?
McInness' name has popped up for a bit for criticism. We should remember that he didn't do a pre-season owing to his his knee reco. Will be much better for a full pre-season. Shouldn't really have been out there this year... but there wasn't anyone else!! (Laids too slow; White injured).
And some of the same can be applied to Murph who also didn't have a full pre season.
Interesting/good to see Ratten at the game last night - not in any official football capacity either, just a casual spectator in his civvies. Was on our train from the ground back to Central Station & was also on my flight this morning.
How about this thought:
Swans had 2 players down from the start of the game and we still LOST
CARLTON ARE WEAK
How about this thought:
Swans had 2 players down from the start of the game and we still LOST
CARLTON ARE WEAK
We actually lost Curnow in the second term and also Garlett was on one leg from early in the third quarter, he hobbled around for the rest of the game. The advantage was well and truly neutralised by that awful turf.
When Curnow went off we turned to absolute crap.
All our weaknesses sure were on display in one game for all to see.
We cannot sustain... anything!
We cannot initiate sustained and ruthless attack without having our backs to the wall ...and we can't sustain that for more than 2 quarters.
We only shine against poor opposition, mediocre opposition having a bad day, or good opposition that lapses in concentration.
We cannot 'hunt' a top side. And if we're seriously hunted, we default to timidity and relying on Juddy and a couple of others to lift everyone else.
Last night an undermanned Fluffy Ducks met an undermanned Blues... and culture (ingrained heart & spirit + courage, discipline & leadership) won.
We had one more scoring shot, clearances, contested possessions and inside 50s were all relatively even. Despite the ugly way we played, we were actually just beaten by a team that adapted to the conditions better and used the ball with greater efficiency. I'm not a massive stats man but they do tell us a lot about this game.
They had 100 more uncontested possessions and as a result that reflected in their disposal efficiency which was 77%, 14% better than ours. With that better disposal efficiency, they were able to get some quality inside 50s and hurt us on the scoreboard whereas all our ball came around the boundary (except the last quarter) and resulted in stagnant or rushed inside 50 entry and tough shots at goal.
I really think our gameplan held us back to some extent in this game as it did throughout the season. Mick seems to be able to get the boys up for the big occasion, time for him to tinker with his dated gameplan and get the list playing more to it's strengths.
I just think man for man our player's skills are not as good as the top teams. How many times do we turn the ball over and the opposition get the break and we know it's going to be a goal and it happens? When we get the same turn over we're hoping that we don't f#$% it up and we usually do. Look at our back line and their kicking skills and compare them to say Hawthorn.
Lake> Jamo
Gibson> Henderson
Guerrera> Simpson
Birchall>Walker
Our 4 boys are good players but their kicking skills aren't even close.
In reality the Judd deal crippled the club, but I would do it again in a heart beat.
Yep, in retrospect, I have to agree with you. It's been a privilege having him in the team and watching him play but it seems the flowchart diagram on the whiteboard in the board room was:
a. get Judd
b. win Premiership
c. pat eachother on the back
Think there were a few steps missing between 'a' and 'b'.
Without Judd we were the Bulldogs for ten years.
He brought the 3 P's
A.. Professionalism
B.. Profile
C.. Performance
Money well spent!!
bullcrap
cost us
two potential mids who would be around 23 and a near Coleman medallist only a couple of years older
Armfield has a crack but his skills are below standard
when you have crap board
you lack professionalism
get rid of them install a professional group of 6 and don't need one guy who costs a fortune to install professionalism
profile success brings more profile but success comes from
recruiting the right players for modern football
spending appropriate money to develop them
the lists builds together from a young age
the quick fix doesn't work anymore. The club hasn't understood this for a long time
performance we have been average with him in the team
The Judd trade was a screwup from a team
anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't a screwen clue how you build a team to win a flag these days
Getting Judd wasn't the mistake, the trade was. We bent over too much.
He nominated his club, and we gave too much. Bit of that was Judd's fault for insisting that WC get a good deal, but we could have been a bit smarter :-[
We had one more scoring shot, clearances, contested possessions and inside 50s were all relatively even. Despite the ugly way we played, we were actually just beaten by a team that adapted to the conditions better and used the ball with greater efficiency. I'm not a massive stats man but they do tell us a lot about this game.
They had 100 more uncontested possessions and as a result that reflected in their disposal efficiency which was 77%, 14% better than ours. With that better disposal efficiency, they were able to get some quality inside 50s and hurt us on the scoreboard whereas all our ball came around the boundary (except the last quarter) and resulted in stagnant or rushed inside 50 entry and tough shots at goal.
I really think our gameplan held us back to some extent in this game as it did throughout the season. Mick seems to be able to get the boys up for the big occasion, time for him to tinker with his dated gameplan and get the list playing more to it's strengths.
I dont know about the stats. The Swans went through the motions late in the game which is why our last quarter was good. We were 4 goals 8 at 3/4 time and were getting smashed in every stat up until that point.
The Swans had locked in the win by then, and there was a clear shift in their effort bevause they have a next week.
As for the game plan, we were that bad using the footy that we seemed to fall over (quite literally at times) before i could figure out what we were trying to achieve.
I know at half time the inside 50s were even as were contested possessions. The clear discrepancy was the uncontested disposals and efficiency so for what it's worth it was the same story at half time.
I know at half time the inside 50s were even as were contested possessions. The clear discrepancy was the uncontested disposals and efficiency so for what it's worth it was the same story at half time.
We got smashed in the second and third quarters for two reasons.
1. We couldnt get the ball easily.
2. When we did get it we missed targets or kicked to contests that were 2-1 against which resulted in turnovers.
The rest of it is fluff. We were crap, and there were barely any cheers coming out of our cheer squad after quarter time which tells you everything you need to know.
Our decision making when deciding which player to pass to is poir. Our execution was terrible and we allowed our opposition to beat us far too easily.
Two goals summed it up.
Jetta had it hard up in the pocket, Yarran commits to tackling but unfortunately slips, Jetta dribbles it across the ground for an easy pick up and score. Should have corralled him.
Walker and Jetta are one on one in the goal square, and Walker was outmuscled by Jetta rather than ensuring he spoiled it Jetta takes a chest mark and scores easily playing on while Walker is complaining about being pushed out of it.
If the umps hadnt paid us so many frees in the first quarter that one would have been rubbish too. I dont blame the blokes overly as you can only learn by doing things incorrectly but its just not good enough to sit there and point to a game plan when we are being uncompetitive in that game plan.
Good players will function well in any game plan and at worst be competitive. Judd on one leg had crap stats but stood out all night because he kept competing.
@Thry
Excellent post Thry - NAIL, HEAD.
I know at half time the inside 50s were even as were contested possessions. The clear discrepancy was the uncontested disposals and efficiency so for what it's worth it was the same story at half time.
We got smashed in the second and third quarters for two reasons.
1. We couldnt get the ball easily.
2. When we did get it we missed targets or kicked to contests that were 2-1 against which resulted in turnovers.
Pretty much what I pointed out. When we won the ball we didn't use it. They did. They had heaps more uncontested ball as a result and therefore had quality entries inside 50 whereas we didn't. Obviously our lack of pressure let us down badly.
Just watched MM's post match presser - certainly left no doubt where we will be mainly focussed in the approaching trade/draft period. Mids, Mids and more Mids!
Carlton did not perform well.
the Players were not up to it and the coach did not inspire the team.
Blame falls on everyone equally, from President to masseur.
Time to plan to do better !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPEMjq0gSBY&feature=youtu.be
Simmo's 200th presentation after the game - I've seen more joy at funerals tbh! :(
Carlton did not perform well.
the Players were not up to it and the coach did not inspire the team.
Blame falls on everyone equally, from President to masseur.
Time to plan to do better !
Many things have to change if our club is going to change for the far better. We only ever make up the numbers in finals. That won't change if people are not moved along, and better candidates are in positions to better the club. Players coaching staff and all members of the board etc.
Just watched MM's post match presser - certainly left no doubt where we will be mainly focussed in the approaching trade/draft period. Mids, Mids and more Mids!
He spoke well......said we couldnt do anything in the trade period last year and he had to go with the players he had and reading between the lines he knew that wasnt going to be good enough and he called it a growth year. Yep we need more mids for more rotations........he did say Chris Yarran did ok and I think he he safe from being traded.
Our captain Murphy in an interview said "the was we lost last nights final was probably disappointing" ??
Probably ?? As is maybe yes, maybe no ?? Is he for real with a comment like that. How about stating all the players played like cr@p and let down all their supporters and members in the biggest way possible. Not enough intensity, intention and just a lazy effort by almost every player. No probably about it. Definitely. Definitely complete rubbish. Definitely, not probably. Give the captains role to Simpson.
Simmo and Walker were by far our best. Tried hard all night and got more than a fair share of the pill. Judd on one leg was competitive. The rest were very ordinary. As far as Brock is concerned, he didnt look right. Would have been better to play Menzel. He at least would have found a mark or 3 up forward. 52 points down at 3/4 time says we have a lot to do. But strangely I think that what needs to be done will be done and we will advance next year. Unfortunately our top 6 finish will leave us playing the other top 6 finishers twice next year. A good challenge nonetheless.
Wow never considered that. Still, Pies and Port aren't impossible challenges to do twice.
If we can't beat the better sides, we are probably wasting our time. The best way to improve is to play the better sides and learn from their weaknesses. It makes it harder fighting for ladder position, but we don't cut it with the best 4. Lets build a group that can start beating them and then we are a real chance.
Pies and Tiges finished 8th and 7th so that makes all of the other Top 8 from 2013 will be played twice.
Just watched MM's post match presser - certainly left no doubt where we will be mainly focussed in the approaching trade/draft period. Mids, Mids and more Mids!
He spoke well......said we couldnt do anything in the trade period last year and he had to go with the players he had and reading between the lines he knew that wasnt going to be good enough and he called it a growth year. Yep we need more mids for more rotations........he did say Chris Yarran did ok and I think he he safe from being traded.
Yes EB1 I think I would draw that conclusion re. Yarran now. Conversely Eddie looks gorrn if he wants the kind of money being talked about.
It's tough to play the other top 8 sides twice, but seriously, if you really want tog grow as a side, why not play the best.
At least we know if we make the finals with a draw like that that we have improved and we deserve to be there as genuine contenders.
All our weaknesses sure were on display in one game for all to see.
We cannot sustain... anything!
We cannot initiate sustained and ruthless attack without having our backs to the wall ...and we can't sustain that for more than 2 quarters.
We only shine against poor opposition, mediocre opposition having a bad day, or good opposition that lapses in concentration.
We cannot 'hunt' a top side. And if we're seriously hunted, we default to timidity and relying on Juddy and a couple of others to lift everyone else.
Last night an undermanned Fluffy Ducks met an undermanned Blues... and culture (ingrained heart & spirit + courage, discipline & leadership) won.
agree
All our weaknesses sure were on display in one game for all to see.
We cannot sustain... anything!
We cannot initiate sustained and ruthless attack without having our backs to the wall ...and we can't sustain that for more than 2 quarters.
We only shine against poor opposition, mediocre opposition having a bad day, or good opposition that lapses in concentration.
We cannot 'hunt' a top side. And if we're seriously hunted, we default to timidity and relying on Juddy and a couple of others to lift everyone else.
Last night an undermanned Fluffy Ducks met an undermanned Blues... and culture (ingrained heart & spirit + courage, discipline & leadership) won.
People will have their own views about teams like Sydney getting salary cap allowances etc. and using this as a reason for their current success. But last night's win had nothing to do with more money. I don't know if the "Bloods Culture" is real or urban myth. But they have something that glues them and lifts them, that's for sure. They won't beat Freo, but they are underdone.
All our weaknesses sure were on display in one game for all to see.
We cannot sustain... anything!
We cannot initiate sustained and ruthless attack without having our backs to the wall ...and we can't sustain that for more than 2 quarters.
We only shine against poor opposition, mediocre opposition having a bad day, or good opposition that lapses in concentration.
We cannot 'hunt' a top side. And if we're seriously hunted, we default to timidity and relying on Juddy and a couple of others to lift everyone else.
Last night an undermanned Fluffy Ducks met an undermanned Blues... and culture (ingrained heart & spirit + courage, discipline & leadership) won.
People will have their own views about teams like Sydney getting salary cap allowances etc. and using this as a reason for their current success. But last night's win had nothing to do with more money. I don't know if the "Bloods Culture" is real or urban myth. But they have something that glues them and lifts them, that's for sure. They won't beat Freo, but they are underdone.
They will knock Freo off I reckon.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that about half-a-dozen of the blokes who took the field tonight have played their last game in navy blue.
I think that's fanciful to be honest.
Realistically a cub can recruit two or three good players in any one off season, on top of that they can draft or rookie three or four promising kids who may or may not make the grade, so any cuts to the list are limited to 6 or 8 players, any more and you just replace hacks with hacks.
There were at least four senior listed players not in last night's side, maybe as many as five or six, who will probably play very little senior football if they stay on the list, offhand I'd name Ellard, Joseph, Rowe, Mitchell, Davies and McCarthy as almost certain to be delisted, and Laidler and Hampson must be on shaky ground.
Most if not all of the players who played last night will still be on the list next season.
Probably right on nearly all counts. Rowe will play next year. We signed for the extra year during the season.
McInness' name has popped up for a bit for criticism. We should remember that he didn't do a pre-season owing to his his knee reco. Will be much better for a full pre-season. Shouldn't really have been out there this year... but there wasn't anyone else!! (Laids too slow; White injured).
And some of the same can be applied to Murph who also didn't have a full pre season.
Yes, exactly. He's been bagged, as a young bloke, for a bad few weeks despite coming of a knee reco. Has played some impressive footy at this club quite often and will again but as most supporters only have 10 sec memories this has been forgotten as usual.
McInness' name has popped up for a bit for criticism. We should remember that he didn't do a pre-season owing to his his knee reco. Will be much better for a full pre-season. Shouldn't really have been out there this year... but there wasn't anyone else!! (Laids too slow; White injured).
And some of the same can be applied to Murph who also didn't have a full pre season.
Yes, exactly. He's been bagged, as a young bloke, for a bad few weeks despite coming of a knee reco. Has played some impressive footy at this club quite often and will again but as most supporters only have 10 sec memories this has been forgotten as usual.
Lightly built and struggled vs the SWans hard bodies...disposal was also ordinary.....probably better long term than White but if we recruit some bigger bodies defenders he will struggle to play seniors.
Doesnt have a real weapon in terms of pace or delivery and you need that in todays modern footy. I'd persist with him but he needs a good pre season in the gym and his skills improving ...
Stop looking at the symptoms and let's get to the causes.
The list is crap because we have crap recruitment and development
Let Sticks Swan Hughes Rodgers McKay make the same decisions we will repeat history
It's obvious
McInnes... in the game against Richmond in round 20 I thought he was the only player in the first quarter to contribute anything, since then he has gone backwards and his first quarter turnover yesterday was an epic error. Had a reputation as a junior for coolness under pressure, I don't know where that has gone. Played better on taller rather than faster opponents as well.
Has already had a big shoulder and a big knee, so has lost opportunity to gain upper body strength and has probably lost pace... and being 190 cm is in-between size. Is an honest footballer but at that size needs to play very cool and smart or he becomes a liability... nevertheless, one of the few players on the list who can be relied upon to make serious efforts to work on his deficiencies.
Just seen a tweet fro CFC saying that Jamo has been cleared of any serious injury and travelled home today with the rest of the boys. At least a bit of good news.
Good news re Jammo, thanks Cookie.
Just on Jammo, he really didn't perform up to standards this year. 1 or 2 seasons ago he was approaching all Australian honours, I am sure he played a couple of good games this year, but he has been soundly beaten more often than not. I would love to know what is going on with him, and I am really hoping the great season he had was not a one off.
Pies and Tiges finished 8th and 7th so that makes all of the other Top 8 from 2013 will be played twice.
Playing Collingwood, Richmond and Essendon once next year. It will be very strange, let's hope Essendon isn't R3/R4.
Good news re Jammo, thanks Cookie.
Just on Jammo, he really didn't perform up to standards this year. 1 or 2 seasons ago he was approaching all Australian honours, I am sure he played a couple of good games this year, but he has been soundly beaten more often than not. I would love to know what is going on with him, and I am really hoping the great season he had was not a one off.
May have something to do with his shoulder popping out once a week!
Good news re Jammo, thanks Cookie.
Just on Jammo, he really didn't perform up to standards this year. 1 or 2 seasons ago he was approaching all Australian honours, I am sure he played a couple of good games this year, but he has been soundly beaten more often than not. I would love to know what is going on with him, and I am really hoping the great season he had was not a one off.
I'd question this quote as I recall seeing a table of goals scored by opponent against him and he had a fairly clean record. If I can find it I'll post it. I also don't recall him getting a bag kicked on him every week, actually I don't recall any. I reckon he's done ok this year, better than the last couple of years anyway, at least he's stayed on the park.
Lets get delisting and trading.
Top 4 sides into prelim finals, 5-8 out within first two weeks of the finals.
No real suprise there, but as others have previously mentioned, the loss didn't hurt as much as our lack of effort for much of the game.
It certainly showed our team deficiencies for what they are.
Amongst some of the other shocker out there, did McLean do much? He appeared mighty quiet (struggled with finals pace after missing last week?).
Puss... or puke. Either describes our overall effort. That said, if the ground wasn't a skating rink I think we could've used our pace to roll the fluffy ducks... and then been massacred by the Dickers this week ::)
McLean was good early in the game he was a worthy inclusion for mine.
Amongst some of the other shocker out there, did McLean do much? He appeared mighty quiet (struggled with finals pace after missing last week?).
McLean did well, he worked his guts out to get into free space quite often but we did not use him.
I suspect it was because the players quickly lost confidence in their kicking due to the ground shifting under their feet. So they went the safe option quite often knowing if they didn't get the kick right McLean would get run down.
But I maintain we are horrendous with the ball in hand, I think we are the worst in the league by some margin. We get away with the poor disposal quite often because we a lot of guys who can cover ground quickly and cover poor kicks. Our pace hides a bigger problem.
McLean tried but was like all the other mids - ineffective when he got it and was unable to exert pressure around the contest on the Swans mids. Spectated a bit and lacked his usual run... probably was not 100% and should not have played.
A smart forward who can find space, draw the ball and tackle effectively would have been better value but that is selecting the side in hindsight. Personnally I would have gone with Menzel as he brings something to different to the side as opposed to selecting another solid but not world-beating mid.
With Menzel having a history of knee issues and that surface we should never play him at that stadium.
He would not have made any difference to the result anyway given how soundly we were beaten.
Pies and Tiges finished 8th and 7th so that makes all of the other Top 8 from 2013 will be played twice.
Playing Collingwood, Richmond and Essendon once next year. It will be very strange, let's hope Essendon isn't R3/R4.
I'd be surprised if this happens. I know they have changed the format (to groups of 6s), but I'm pretty sure there are still "exceptions". These exceptions will include ensuring their are always 2 blockbusters (Carl, Coll, Rich, Ess and also the local Derbies in WA, SA, QLD, Syd). No way the AFL doesnt have 2 Carl/Coll games next year.
There has been a tweak to the fomula used, but I dont think it will have the effect that some media were spouting
The only material change is we play the Hawks twice next year.
The only material change is we play the Hawks twice next year.
That one I could do without. However, we have to beat them sooner or later and I'd rather it be sooner.
With Menzel having a history of knee issues and that surface we should never play him at that stadium.
He would not have made any difference to the result anyway given how soundly we were beaten.
Not sure I agree, 3 Leos.
If it's true that the Troy was excluded due to soreness, then fair enough. If someone filled their durps fearing Sydney and thinking we needed a 'tough' mid to come in for a creative forward/mid... then they got it wrong. I suspected a fear based decision when I heard of the late change and shook my head. Boldness may have been required. Menzel's superior disposal skills could have been very handy. The difference? No way.
If you recruit a bloke but don't play him at certain grounds due to a potential injury then you should give up the (recruiting/list management) caper.
With Menzel having a history of knee issues and that surface we should never play him at that stadium.
He would not have made any difference to the result anyway given how soundly we were beaten.
Not sure I agree, 3 Leos.
If it's true that the Troy was excluded due to soreness, then fair enough. If someone filled their durps fearing Sydney and thinking we needed a 'tough' mid to come in for a creative forward/mid... then they got it wrong. I suspected a fear based decision when I heard of the late change and shook my head. Boldness may have been required. Menzel's superior disposal skills could have been very handy. The difference? No way.
If you recruit a bloke but don't play him at certain grounds due to a potential injury then you should give up the (recruiting/list management) caper.
when your club doesn't train in the rain - wouldn't surprise me
Gremlins. They must not get wet remember.