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Topic: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide (Read 18113 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #210 –
Quote from: BluePhantom on
How many Line in the Sand moments does this club want or need?
We have at least 3 or 4 a year where the players, the club, could say enough is enough.
...........................................................

I agree. It's not the issue in my view. If we have spent 20 years turning over hundreds of players, all of whom need a rev up every 5 minutes, then we don't belong in a professional sporting competition.

But as I say, I don't believe it's the issue(s).

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #211 –
Quote from: BluePhantom on
How may Line in the Sand moments does this club want or need?
We have at least 3 or 4 a year where the players, the club, could say enough is enough.
But.... crickets, because as someone said before we are NICE.
What ever happened to Fudge everyone, We are Carlton?
Its like Bondi beach in terms of line in the sand games with us and its usually  ends up with the admin burying the coach in the sand. Feck Everyone, We are Carlton might have been a good catch cry in the Elliott era but now we are just a also ran club with nothing to be proud of for the last 20 years except the supporter base who have stuck fat.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #212 –
Quote from: BluePhantom on
How may Line in the Sand moments does this club want or need?
We have at least 3 or 4 a year where the players, the club, could say enough is enough.
But.... crickets, because as someone said before we are NICE.
What ever happened to Fudge everyone, We are Carlton?

We have a to have a serious one at some stage otherwise we just sit around forever disappointed. This one is on the players and playing culture. Question is when will be have a real one, not a pretend one. Club could say enough is enough all day, has to come from the playing group.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #213 –
Sadly we were better last year when the older players were still a little competitive. This year with a faster longer game our older players show they have played a year too many and are under pressure when disposing the ball.
Missing our 50 game players coming through and taking over too many draft misses even blokes like Kemp who I  don’t have a clue what he even looks like.  No quick fix with this current team skills wise but I played with blokes who smoked, trained half heartedly twice a week, drank on Friday nights but won premierships because they could hit a target 20 feet away and kick it through the goals! Today’s players train 5 night a week from the age of ten and still can’t kick it accurately over 20 feet or handball anywhere but to a teammates feet 🙄

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #214 –
Quote from: laj on
We have a to have a serious one at some stage otherwise we just sit around forever disappointed. This one is on the players and playing culture. Question is when will be have a real one, not a pretend one. Club could say enough is enough all day, has to come from the playing group.
Heard that how many times over the last 20 years? All we do is sack coaches, it will happen again, nothing surer. And I don't agree its on the players. Cultures are set at the top and filtered down. Everyone has to buy in and live it. Any apparent poor culture of the playing is reflective of the President, Board, CEO, Football Manager, etc etc.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #215 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Heard that how many times over the last 20 years? All we do is sack coaches, it will happen again, nothing surer. And I don't agree its on the players. Cultures are set at the top and filtered down. Everyone has to buy in and live it. Any apparent poor culture of the playing is reflective of the President, Board, CEO, Football Manager, etc etc.

This one is on the players. Motivation comes from within and ours can't stay motivated for more than a couple of weeks at a time. Club is run pretty well right now. What is needed is real peer pressure to perform. They have to put it on each other. Right now we turn up but don't work. Almost nothing surer we'll win the next couple, even though it's Brisbane, after coping the biggest baking and home truths we've received in years. What happens after that, who knows.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #216 –
Quote from: laj on
This one is on the players. Motivation comes from within and ours can't stay motivated for more than a couple of weeks at a time. Club is run pretty well right now. What is needed is real peer pressure to perform. They have to put it on each other. Right now we turn up but don't work. Almost nothing surer we'll win the next couple, even though it's Brisbane, after coping the biggest baking and home truths we've received in years. What happens after that, who knows.
A few contradictions there Jim, we turn up but dont work yet we will win the next few? Dont get that logic.
Ill say it again, culture is set from the top down not the bottom up. It's not about motivation, its all about culture, creating and maintaining a ruthless winning one. When CEO, presidents and coaches give the players an out when they speak to the media, that's not a ruthless culture and sets the wrong example for the players. So is our culture bad? I'd guess the answer is not totally. But is it a ruthless winning one? Most definitely not.
There also doesn't seem to be any non negotiables, and with that consequences, at our club. If there were, we would not trot out the same roller coaster performances year after year.
Then there are skill/execution problems. Ill say this again also, for how many years have we been seeing the same poor skills with disposal and goal kicking? Lots. And we seem to do nothing to address the specific problems (ie bring in specialists to fix the specific issues). If you ask me are out players motivated, I'd say they are as motivated as any player in the comp. Are they well trained and conditioned? I'd say not as well as they could or should be.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #217 –
It's quite possible that Teague's mother-in-law issues affected not just the coach, but the players as well, which may partly explain why they were off against Port.

I do love the change of narrative though. Under Bolton, the coach was the source of all evil. Now, according to the great Mark Maclure, it's got nothing to do with Teague, it's all on the players. Nice. It warms my heart to see goalposts can be moved so easily. I too, may one day get to experience the unbridled pleasure that comes from such a manoeuvre.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #218 –
Quote from: PaulP on
I agree. It's not the issue in my view. If we have spent 20 years turning over hundreds of players, all of whom need a rev up every 5 minutes, then we don't belong in a professional sporting competition.


Culture.

And who is responsible for building, improving and maintaining culture?

As just one example, look at the Fluffy Ducks. What they stand for; their culture is unmistakable. Newbies come in and lift to the standards expected. In some respects, the very antithesis of us.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #219 –
The one constant in all of this is the way our players are so poorly prepared and drilled,  for want of a better term. Suggests that we don't have anywhere near a capable and effective enough system in place to do this. We desperately need to fix it and improve our recruiting  if we are ever to get out of the doldrums. The Swans for one seem pretty good in this area.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #220 –
The players go through the motions, because they know, as soon as it gets hard, the coach will be sacked and it wont matter what they do anyway.

If you have value, you will be shipped off for a high draft pick.

If you are a high draft pick you will get games no matter how poorly you play.

If you are a battler, you will get dropped the first sign of a form dip.

If you play poorly, the coach will cop it in the neck and the whipping boys will wear the fallout for your inability to perform your role, irrespective of how much time someone like Plowman spends covering up someone elses mistakes. 

Players develop in spite of us not because of us, and most players fail to develop because of us.

Rinse, repeat. 


THIS is the mantra of the Carlton footy club.  22 years later, THIS is what we stand for.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #221 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
The players go through the motions, because they know, as soon as it gets hard, the coach will be sacked and it wont matter what they do anyway.

If you have value, you will be shipped off for a high draft pick.

If you are a high draft pick you will get games no matter how poorly you play.

If you are a battler, you will get dropped the first sign of a form dip.

If you play poorly, the coach will cop it in the neck and the whipping boys will wear the fallout for your inability to perform your role, irrespective of how much time someone like Plowman spends covering up someone elses mistakes. 

Players develop in spite of us not because of us, and most players fail to develop because of us.

Rinse, repeat. 


THIS is the mantra of the Carlton footy club.  22 years later, THIS is what we stand for.

So given that vicious circle....what's the answer?
Because if nothing changes...nothing changes

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #222 –
Quote from: PaulP on
Sorry Baggers, but they sound like quotes from Anthony Robbins. All professional sporting clubs want to win and be successful. The ones that don't simply aren't good enough, for many on field and off field reasons. Success or failure has nothing to do with standing for something. We were able to buy the best players available back in the day - wonder how ? Maybe that was the single greatest contributor to our success, rather than "standing for something".

Ouch, probably no greater insult than to liken me to Anthony Robbins.

Unlike Robbins, in my work when I work with my clients on such things as, say, excellence... we pull it apart to see what it means to them - then I stick around to help with the 'fallout' of change... very  unlike Robbins.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #223 –
Quote from: Lods on
So given that vicious circle....what's the answer?
Because if nothing changes...nothing changes

I have formed an opinion of why nothing changes, and its not because nothing changes, its because too many changes.

I work in IT.

When we face one particular issue, the worst thing you can do, is change multiple things at once without knowing precisely what reaction you are going to have.

You need to work through the issue systematically starting with a root cause analysis.

Then you start fixing what you have perceived the issue is, starting with some of the most basic and fundamental changes and working your way down the list.

The scorched earth policy is the last resort of the IT worker *this is a wipe and reinstallation of whatever you are doing from the beginning, or a replacement of said system/device*.

We started with scorched earth and are trying to get a system online and are having people complain that its not working yet when we have barely even begun (for reference see noise re teague and ability to coach).
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide

Reply #224 –
Quote from: LP on
I don't agree, Maclure is making a habit of potting the club in general and piling on the pressure.

You see guys like Matthew Lloyd target specific CheatsFC players, but they do so trying to improve the wider performance of the club, they don't pot the club in general.

Maclure barely has a surface left to add some graffiti!

Further, I have it on good authority that more than once he's scuppered / complicated trade deals by gobbing off to his mates down Sorrento way, he's unofficially known as a trout mouth and it takes very little to get him to regurgitate all he knows! He thinks he is in tight with blokes like Fox and Jess, but they laugh behind his back!

Ah, Spotted One. It is so very important to separate the message from the messenger. Shouldn't matter if Sellers pulls the wings off butterflies... if his opinions on something have a strong element of truth and many resonate with that truth, then that is all that matters. Thought I do feel for the butterflies.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17