Carlton Supporters Club

I agree in principle with your post, but the bit in bold is crucial - it is, as you say, far too early make any judgments, but what amount of time is the right time to start making calls ?

I've changed my mind completely on this....
If we're going to entrust Bolton the rebuild /reset let him start from scratch.

I used to think it was important to retain players like Gibbs and Murphy to help guide the younger players.
The problem is that these were blokes who(apart from the Judd influence) were given little guidance about just what it takes to make a champion professional footballer due to the mediocrity of the playing group around them so their own "education" was limited as a result

In Cripps and Weitering it looks like we may a couple of natural leaders (at least by example.)

I think we'd lose little by moving most players who've been at the club longer than Cripps on.
They've been part of a pretty tumultuous period that we need a clear break from.
Some like Murphy and Gibbs will still have fair currency and provide us with more as trades than they do if we retain them.

We start with a fresh group, untarnished by the turmoil of our recent past, that Bolton can develop.

I've changed my mind completely on this....
If we're going to entrust Bolton the rebuild /reset let him start from scratch.

I used to think it was important to retain players like Gibbs and Murphy to help guide the younger players.
The problem is that these were blokes who(apart from the Judd influence) were given little guidance about just what it takes to make a champion professional footballer due to the mediocrity of the playing group around them so their own "education" was limited as a result

In Cripps and Weitering it looks like we may a couple of natural leaders (at least by example.)

I think we'd lose little by moving most players who've been at the club longer than Cripps on.
They've been part of a pretty tumultuous period that we need a clear break from.
Some like Murphy and Gibbs will still have fair currency and provide us with more as trades than they do if we retain them.

We start with a fresh group, untarnished by the turmoil of our recent past, that Bolton can develop.

So then, is it possible to quantify the "results" that you insist on seeing before you "believe" ? What are the signs that we're looking for and what is the time limit in which we need to see these "signs" ? Do we assume that this season is a wipe out in terms of W/L ? Are we looking for a minimum number of wins ? Honorable losses ? 4 q efforts ? Development of the young players etc. ?

What will be give us the comfort of knowing we're in the right  hands, on the right path ?

btw I dont understand why docherty gets raved about

I've changed my mind completely on this....
If we're going to entrust Bolton the rebuild /reset let him start from scratch.

I used to think it was important to retain players like Gibbs and Murphy to help guide the younger players.
The problem is that these were blokes who(apart from the Judd influence) were given little guidance about just what it takes to make a champion, professional footballer, due to the mediocrity of the playing group around them
Their own "education" was limited as a result.

In Cripps and Weitering it looks like we may a couple of natural leaders (at least by example.)

I think we'd lose little by moving most players who've been at the club longer than Cripps on.
They've been part of a pretty tumultuous period that we need a clear break from.
Some like Murphy and Gibbs will still have fair currency and provide us with more as trades than they do if we retain them.

We start with a fresh group, untarnished by the turmoil of our recent past, that Bolton can develop.

I doubt you would understand most things.

So then, is it possible to quantify the "results" that you insist on seeing before you "believe" ? What are the signs that we're looking for and what is the time limit in which we need to see these "signs" ? Do we assume that this season is a wipe out in terms of W/L ? Are we looking for a minimum number of wins ? Honorable losses ? 4 q efforts ? Development of the young players etc. ?

What will be give us the comfort of knowing we're in the right  hands, on the right path ?

Thought BOTH the Irish guys did OK. Tuohy gets plenty of whacks for some reason on this site but at least he can influence positively on occasions.

Lods they are good players, but are they the right players is the question we need to ask.

Im abit of a 2E basher, my only criticism is that he should be taken out of defence and played up the ground. He could be a wing-HF weapon potentially. I think his defensive skills have not developed to a level that warrants leaving him there. He has skills however that could be used up the ground.