Like the last few rounds, I will complete the name for the thread when the game is over. I may not have the most positive vibe about this one: we have been effected by a LOT of injuries to key guys. But you never know what can happen.
I believe in omens, my prediction was correct so I will go again this week. I will run with:
"Who woulda thought"
11 goals and a bit of change. And Gee-long to look forward to next week.
Sigh.............
11 goals and a bit of change. And Gee-long to look forward to next week.
Sigh.............
On the bright side we have Brisbane and St.Kilda after that.
45 inside 50's....you'll never win with NO FORWARDS...end of story :o
On the bright side we have Brisbane and St.Kilda after that.
They're certainly more gettable, particularly Brisbane.
Our mids go missing when there are bigger bodies around the ball. Selwood, Danger, Caddy, Gutherie next week...
Plenty of fumbly joes out there. Curnow had 3 good cracks at goal and just doesn't finish as a good midfielder should.
Doc, Weiters, Plow, Byrne lots of one touches and clean hands. Cripps as well.
Please bring in KJ to see what he can do instead of Walker and Everitt.
We are competitive to the end, just no forward structure
We did lead the possession count, and had a number of guys with a lot of the ball. Gibbs, Kerridge and Docherty had 29 possessions each. Cripps had 28 after a big last term. But we could not get the ball out of the centre.
45 inside 50's....you'll never win with NO FORWARDS...end of story :o
49-46 Inside 50's in North's favour.
13-9 Marks inside 50 in North's favour.
Pretty comparable stats that don't hint at an 11 goal touch up.
The ball is certainly getting in there as you say.............
and then comes flying right back out.
Think we should have played Wood tonight along with Gorringe...the former is no star but he would have negated Goldy a bit more and Gorringe could have been used forward ....wasnt too disappointed in Gorringe who has some ability but his ruckwork is novice like.
Walker tried to find some space but didnt kick well and Everitt lost interest having to play on the North tall backman....
Gibbs and Murphy were only average even though Gibbs stats showed he had a bit of ball...thought Kerridge worked hard along with his Crow teammate Wright but Cripps was a slow starter and couldnt find much space.
Zac Touhy continues to frustrate me with his decision making....
Gorringe - goal of the week ^-^
Kerridge's goal - umpiring blue of the week :'(
45 inside 50's....you'll never win with NO FORWARDS...end of story :o
The quality of delivery to the forwards is also a factor.
The quality of delivery to the forwards is also a factor.
Too true Barbs.
Drop Everitt, bring in Wood and play Gorringe up forward in the Casboult role.
Drop Everitt, bring in Wood and play Gorringe up forward in the Casboult role.
Prefer to bring Jaksch in rather than play Gorringe. He contested marking will be very handy. Wood can ruck most of the day, as he did last year, with a bit of relief from someone, anyone, for a few minutes here and there.
Exposed again against a good side.
Exposed again against a good side.
We'll get exposed against good sides for a while yet. Nature of the beast when rebuilding. It's where we are at. Our job is to learn, improve and do well against sides around us. If we weren't exposed against top sides then you talk top 4 and premierships. We're not at the point yet.
After Geelong, if we beat Brisbane and St.Kilda the 2 rounds after that then we're 6-6. Even just 3 wins from the last 10 games would give us 9. That would be something we'd take in a heartbeat if offered that pre-season.
A lot of the boys looked too tired. Lethargic
Prefer to bring Jaksch in rather than play Gorringe. He contested marking will be very handy. Wood can ruck most of the day, as he did last year, with a bit of relief from someone, anyone, for a few minutes here and there.
Reckon both Wood and Jaksch need to come in, probably at the expense of Everitt and Walker. Go with three talls up forward - Gorringe, Jones and Jaksch, and let Rowe go back, possibly with Jamison in for Tuohy. He needs to regain some form in the twos as well.
Up side.
No injuries.
Sustained effort.
Daisy, Curnow, Gibbs, Armfield, and to a lesser degree Murphy, Rowe, and Simmo. Solid effort from the seniors against a very in form bigger bodied side.
Some great learning for all.
Fabulous signs from the young ones: Sumner, Byrne, Docherty, Crippa, Plowman, and Weitering returning from injury.
Oh and scraping the bottom of the barrel.... No reports ::)
The result is pretty ugly but I wasn't too unhappy with our effort. In the past, 70+ point losses were just disgusting to watch.
We seriously lacked a genuine ruckman and key forward target. Gorringe certainly isn't a ruck man but he does some nice things, but then at times he doesn't show enough intensity. That could just be his lack of AFL experience, I dunno.
I think our best 22 can compete well but our depth is still really thin. I think Boekhorst might have to come in for Lamb and Jaksch for Walker.
I was impressed with the development of Byrne and Sumner. Coming along nicely.
We were outclassed pretty much all over the field, stats are fairly meaningless.
As someone else said we struggle badly against classy big bodied midfielders and Ziebell, Cunnington, Swallow and Dal Santo were too much for us to handle apart from Goldstein's dominance.
A few positives.
Docherty continued his great run of form, Byrne looks something pretty special, Weitering learned something about playing on seasoned forwards and Sumner shows a bit despite his wayward goal kicking.
We never gave up and fought it right out but tonight showed clearly how far off the pace we are.
We were outclassed pretty much all over the field, stats are fairly meaningless.
As someone else said we struggle badly against classy big bodied midfielders and Ziebell, Cunnington, Swallow and Dal Santo were too much for us to handle apart from Goldstein's dominance.
A few positives.
Docherty continued his great run of form, Byrne looks something pretty special, Weitering learned something about playing on seasoned forwards and Sumner shows a bit despite his wayward goal kicking.
We never gave up and fought it right out but tonight showed clearly how far off the pace we are.
Yes, along way to go but we knew that. Geelong will pump us then we have the chance at 2 more wins straight after that against Brisbane and St.Kilda. We're a chance at 8-9 wins this year with wins against sides at our level, which is all, or even more than we could expect.
Yes, along way to go but we knew that. Geelong will pump us then we have the chance at 2 more wins straight after that against Brisbane and St.Kilda. We're a chance at 8-9 wins this year with wins against sides at our level, which is all, or even more than we could expect.
4 wins so far is about what I expected for the entire season so I'm more than happy, but it's vital that we get the draft right in the next two years.
Yes, along way to go but we knew that. Geelong will pump us then we have the chance at 2 more wins straight after that against Brisbane and St.Kilda. We're a chance at 8-9 wins this year with wins against sides at our level, which is all, or even more than we could expect.
I think 8-9 wins is more than many on here predicted, yours truly included.
Thus far, I'm thrilled with the on field and off field progress the club's achieved (man.. this time last year, rd 23 couldn't come quick enough).
Slow and steady is the best recipe..... Ask the tortoise ;D
4 wins so far is about what I expected for the entire season so I'm more than happy, but it's vital that we get the draft right in the next two years.
Yes, most definitely!
Wow Gorringe. 7 HOs. Gibbs got 5 lol. Is Warnock busy? It would have been less embarrassing to go in without a Ruckman. Oh well, they are on top of the ladder so it was wishful thinking that we could beat them.
I think 8-9 wins is more than many on here predicted, yours truly included.
Thus far, I'm thrilled with the on field and off field progress the club's achieved (man.. this time last year, rd 23 couldn't come quick enough).
Slow and steady is the best recipe..... Ask the tortoise ;D
Yes, after round 4 I was worried if we'd break the duck. 8-9 is possible now although continued learning, development and improvement is the key at this point. Wins or strong performances against sides that are at our level is the best we can expect right now.
Wow Gorringe. 7 HOs. Gibbs got 5 lol. Is Warnock busy? It would have been less embarrassing to go in without a Ruckman. Oh well, they are on top of the ladder so it was wishful thinking that we could beat them.
Definitely picked the wrong ruckman.
First of all umpire Luke Farmer (#4) can go feck himself.....absolutely murdered us all night, whilst giving North a deadset armchair ride. His work was a substantial contribution to the result, have no doubts about it.
Docherty was absolutely huge all night.....in AA form right now. GUN.
Ciaran Byrne was also super-impressive. GUN.
Never a game we were gonna win......Tarrant had a field day without having to worry about Casboult. Didn't nullify Goldstein anywhere near well enough as I'm sure we'd planned to do....Gorringe was horribly slow to react in general play & didn't have a clue how to contest against a seasoned ruckman - Wood should've played for mine. Goldstein was the luckiest bloke on earth tonight, as were North in general.
67 points was an unfair result I felt, as I was not in the slightest bit angered/frustrated/disappointed in our application the entire game, but it was a game whereby we had to take any half-decent chance given to us in front of goal & we kinda failed miserably in that regard.
Walker is done & dusted......he's a trainwreck. Can't jump, can't kick, has no positive effect on our gameplay. Where Bolton has taken this team thus far & wants to keep progressing, means Walker & Jamison are very much yesterday's men, we can't carry these blokes anymore & they're being shown-up as glaring examples of what we used to be & don't want to be anymore. Both have been outstanding servants of the Club, but sadly, their time has come.
For those who were there, how pitiful is the 'Make Some Noise' nonsense they try to drum-up on the scoreboard after each goal......sad indictment on the lack of atmosphere at their home games & boy, was there a lack of atmosphere there tonight, it was woeful.
Some sloppy turnovers, a non-existent ruckman, not taking the chances we had in front of goal & one turd of an umpire cost us this game........last year this would've been an 80+ loss.
Exposed again against a good side.
Is that a serious comment???
Embarrassing IMO, is what we were dishing up last year. Tonight is no comparison, we were sound (given our stocks and our rebuild status). Can't fault the effort of the majority at least. A few were definitely off their game, but you get that after 6 day break coming up against an unbeaten side buying for a flag.
Realistically, once Kruez was out, I don't think it mattered who rucked. That said, if Wood is fit and could offer what he did last year. He probably Wood have made Goldy work a bit harder rucking, lessening his opportunities around the ground. We were never going to be competitive against AA Goldy. Great learning opportunity for Gorringe. He certainly had a crack and his goal was a pearler... The coaches will also have some insight into his development needs.
Go Blues
Is that a serious comment???
??? ???
Read my mind Brettie.
A lot of the boys looked too tired. Lethargic
Agree. We were pretty flat tonight against an unbeaten team. Looked like a bit of a hangover from last week's game and not entirely unexpected.
As a developing group with injuries, I thought we did... Pfffft FREE KICK NORTH MELBOURNE. :o
With kruezer out Gorringe was able...pffft FREE KICK NORTH MELBOURNE! :o
When... Pffft FREE KICK NORTH MELBOURNE! :o
I think the commentators said that our defence averages about 30-40 games experience and their forward line averages about 180. Team chemistry takes years and we have a great defensive base for the next decade.
Well, I take it we won't have a thread about making the finals this week. ;)
When reality hits it can hit with a thud.
Last season we would have lost that game by 100+ points, so things have improved, which is what we all want.
They are the top side in the league, we finished bottom last year.
We have improved.
By the way, this blaming umpires every time we get beaten is cr@p.
When we aren't first to the ball we will always be behind in the frees. Ask Port Adelaide about last week.
None of us likes to get beaten but I'm not too upset given the circumstances.
Bolts stated the match was won and lost in the midfield (in his presser).
No way am I blaming the umps for losing, they were the better team by far BUT, ALL the tiggy touchwood 50/50 type decisions were to them.
The Bronx cheers were not for any reason.
The amount of times North got away with doing exactly the same thing where we just before gave away a free kick was mind blowing.
Bl&@dy Goldstein is the new untouchable and that little pr$ck Thomas can go back to his acting school and FO.
Also it looks like Waite was doing a Henderson in his last couple of years at the Blues, just going through the motions masquerading as a player for us. Glad those types have gone.
Certainly leaves a bad taste in... Pffft Free kick North Melbourne.
Bolts stated the match was won and lost in the midfield (in his presser).
Given that Goldstein dominated and they have very good experienced midfielders who take full advantage of him that's stating the bleeding obvious, we can thank our lucky stars that there was no Wells.
The midfield was one thing but our forward structure was virtually non existent and until we take steps to fix it we will continue to be exposed.
Casboult makes it better and straightens us up to some degree but he's no Wayne Carey or Buddy Franklin, or even a Drew Petrie.
Our midfield should be our strength.
Two number 1 draft picks and a star in his third year.
Yes Goldstein dominated but plenty of teams shark the opposition ruckman.
It was just too hot in the kitchen for a couple of our guys.
Reality hits.
They should be in their prime but they just ain't tough enough.
Scott was correct yesterday when he said Carlton is a myth.
Our list is made up of plenty of pick 1s, pick 2s and first rounders and to top it off, we aren't that young.
We have to stop making excuses.
Our "stars" are not good enough to match it with the stars of the comp.
Our "stars" are not good enough to match it with the stars of the comp.
Did alright the previous 4 weeks.
Bolts stated the match was won and lost in the midfield (in his presser).
I said that before the teams were even picked.
Needed to stop the ball getting into the North forward line....we didn't....we lost.
I will take it is a reality check if we had all our players available and on 7 days break like North. Until then a loss against an undefeated team is ok.
Goldstein gave his mids first use of the ball net 35 times in the game... this is domination.
Did alright the previous 4 weeks.
Beating Collingwood was good, but they were off the boil.
Beating port was a significant achievement but again, they are just going this season.
The Bombers are a misnomer, and Freo are the worst side in the competition bar none.
Four in a row is a reward for effort but we have a lot of work to do.
Bolts stated the match was won and lost in the midfield (in his presser).
Yes, simply that! Our defence was then exposed to the full wrath of the North forwards, no hope then.
Our midfield should be our strength.
Two number 1 draft picks and a star in his third year.
Yes Goldstein dominated but plenty of teams shark the opposition ruckman.
It was just too hot in the kitchen for a couple of our guys.
Reality hits.
They should be in their prime but they just ain't tough enough.
Scott was correct yesterday when he said Carlton is a myth.
Our list is made up of plenty of pick 1s, pick 2s and first rounders and to top it off, we aren't that young.
We have to stop making excuses.
Our "stars" are not good enough to match it with the stars of the comp.
I think it has been over the years our coaching and footy dept setup that can't match it with the competition! :o
11 goals from stoppages to 1.
There's the game.
re: Thomas....thought we were weak against him and our small defenders never picked him up...
Bolton probably made one of his few mistakes for the season playing Gorringe only and not having some cover with Cameron Wood....
There was some intimidation from the North bigger bodies especially down back where players like Lamb ended up on Firitto and didnt enjoy the extra physical attention..
Walker and Everitt are no subsitute for Casboult either yet we often bombed the ball to let Tarrant and Thompson take easy marks....Jones at least gave some effort IMO...Everitt was playing like he was 5' 2 and 60kg....
Everitt was playing like he was 5' 2 and 60kg....
In the last quarter i actually had to check the AFL site to see if he was in fact playing.
He's playing like someone who doesn't want to be wearing navy blue next year.
re: Thomas....thought we were weak against him and our small defenders never picked him up...
Bolton probably made one of his few mistakes for the season playing Gorringe only and not having some cover with Cameron Wood....
There was some intimidation from the North bigger bodies especially down back where players like Lamb ended up on Firitto and didnt enjoy the extra physical attention..
Walker and Everitt are no subsitute for Casboult either yet we often bombed the ball to let Tarrant and Thompson take easy marks....Jones at least gave some effort IMO...Everitt was playing like he was 5' 2 and 60kg....
Fair summation EB. Just on Walker, is it me or does he look like he is playing angry? Seems to me to sook up playing for free kicks alot.
re: Thomas....thought we were weak against him and our small defenders never picked him up...
Bolton probably made one of his few mistakes for the season playing Gorringe only and not having some cover with Cameron Wood....
There was some intimidation from the North bigger bodies especially down back where players like Lamb ended up on Firitto and didnt enjoy the extra physical attention..
Walker and Everitt are no subsitute for Casboult either yet we often bombed the ball to let Tarrant and Thompson take easy marks....Jones at least gave some effort IMO...Everitt was playing like he was 5' 2 and 60kg....
Makes Jaksch a must next week. One of Everitt or Walker needs to play NBs, probably Walker as outside of last night Everitt has been performing and hitting the scoreboard. Jaksch and Jones as the key forwards, Wood and Gorringe rucking, Rowe back to defence.
Not sure how walker fits into the side... Days of being a mid sized mobile forward are over. Not taking marks and kicking well and not offering much within the defensive sphere. Had some chances to get back into the swing if things and looks a yard behind behind the game. Time to try someone else.
Everritt is the classic soft cherry picker HF flanker. We are going to debate his inclusion on a weekly basis until a kid pushes him from the team. Stays in the side, for now, but suspect he is on notice for consistency of effort.
11 goals from stoppages to 1.
There's the game.
Goldstein was the key to their win last night.
Makes Jaksch a must next week. One of Everitt or Walker needs to play NBs, probably Walker as outside of last night Everitt has been performing and hitting the scoreboard. Jaksch and Jones as the key forwards, Wood and Gorringe rucking, Rowe back to defence.
We definitely need to start phasing out 1AW now IMO. He is pretty much a shadow of his former self and is sadly not a part of the future plans. We need to focus on the guys who are more likely to be.
I wish we had a better option than Everrit but sadly atm we don't have.
We definitely need to start phasing out 1AW now IMO. He is pretty much a shadow of his former self and is sadly not a part of the future plans. We need to focus on the guys who are more likely to be.
I wish we had a better option than Everrit but sadly atm we don't have.
Cookie..agree on AW...We have SOSOS ready to take his place as the 3rd tall forward but its too early and he would just get knocked about.......its time we gave Jaksch a run and started experimenting with players like Touhy down forward, the latter likes kicking goals and its not like we dont have half back options.
Fair summation EB. Just on Walker, is it me or does he look like he is playing angry? Seems to me to sook up playing for free kicks alot.
He has for years.
This is nothing new
Cookie..agree on AW...We have SOSOS ready to take his place as the 3rd tall forward but its too early and he would just get knocked about.......its time we gave Jaksch a run and started experimenting with players like Touhy down forward, the latter likes kicking goals and its not like we dont have half back options.
Yes EB, Tuohy is a very nice kick and he would also add a bit of steel to our forward structure.
Fair summation EB. Just on Walker, is it me or does he look like he is playing angry? Seems to me to sook up playing for free kicks alot.
GTC..He is playing like an older player whose body cant do things its did and you end up taking short cuts like trying to play for free's...I thought he tried to lead at times but we couldnt hit him up but even when we did he cant convert...reckon he works harder than Everitt but the latter is the better kick and its hard to play both together down forward IMO...
We should have played Wood instead of Gorringe, Wood at least has some body strength and mongrel and would have made it more uncomfortable for Goldstein.
Everitt was bad but Jones was equally so if not worse, he never looked like being in position to make a contest when the ball came in long and was continually second, third or fourth in line.
On current form Walker is a shadow of the player he was and unless he can turn it around in the next month will go the way of Jamison, it's sad to see in both cases.
We have our problems generally but our front half is our Achilles heel and until we fix it we can expect more results like last night.
everitt has questionable work ethic but hits the score board. Walker can not.
We should have played Wood instead of Gorringe, Wood at least has some body strength and mongrel and would have made it more uncomfortable for Goldstein.
Everitt was bad but Jones was equally so if not worse, he never looked like being in position to make a contest when the ball came in long and was continually second, third or fourth in line.
On current form Walker is a shadow of the player he was and unless he can turn it around in the next month will go the way of Jamison, it's sad to see in both cases.
We have our problems generally but our front half is our Achilles heel and until we fix it we can expect more results like last night.
Some patience McKay is back in training in three weeks and when the time Cas is due back McKay should have a game or two under his belt in VFL which means potentially having Cas and McKay in the forward line by round 15
Some patience McKay is back in training in three weeks and when the time Cas is due back McKay should have a game or two under his belt in VFL which means potentially having Cas and McKay in the forward line by round 15
I'm not convinced that Casboult and McKay are the answer to our prayers.
North have three dangerous tall forwards; Petrie was drafted at pick 23 in the National Draft, Brown at pick 47 and Waite came from Carlton for a song.
Their best small forward was taken at pick 53.
It can be done, we just have to learn how to do it.
If we are serious about winning and playing finals, then you play Cameron Wood
If you are in a learning environment, and watching which players are good or can compete, listen and stick to what you are tying to implement, then you play Gorringe.
Frustrating yes, losing sucks, but the end game. When Waite, Petrie, Thomas and Boomer are long retired, Plow, Weiters, Byrne and Doc will be dominating opposition forward lines.
Gorringe got a huge learning wake up call yesterday. This is the standard against the every best. Cripps, learnt that you won't always win the taps and you have to fight for every clearance.
We learnt more last night than the other 4 wins IMO and I reckon Bolton enjoyed the wake up call as such. No media this week for the blues, back to business.
If we are serious about winning and playing finals, then you play Cameron Wood
Winning should be the aim in any sporting contest, if Wood isn't to be available to play then he shouldn't be at the club.
It was indeed an initiation by fire for Gorringe who spent much of the first half wondering which planet he had landed on. However, IMO he did seem to get a bit better as the game went on and I think we need to give him a bit of time before we replace him with Wood who again is not the future.
North's wins this season against the better or more developmentally advanced teams have been by narrow margins. The only real blow outs have been us, GC, and Freo.
On to next week. Not much more to say about last night.
If we are serious about winning and playing finals, then you play Cameron Wood
If you are in a learning environment, and watching which players are good or can compete, listen and stick to what you are tying to implement, then you play Gorringe.
Frustrating yes, losing sucks, but the end game. When Waite, Petrie, Thomas and Boomer are long retired, Plow, Weiters, Byrne and Doc will be dominating opposition forward lines.
Gorringe got a huge learning wake up call yesterday. This is the standard against the every best. Cripps, learnt that you won't always win the taps and you have to fight for every clearance.
We learnt more last night than the other 4 wins IMO and I reckon Bolton enjoyed the wake up call as such. No media this week for the blues, back to business.
To a certain level you need to think about winning but how much depends where you're at. It's a fine balance. Mainly youth, as you said, but the ruck is very physical hence I'd put the strongest in there to give everyone every chance and let other ruckmen develop either in the VFL, or as second ruck, as i'd go next week until Kreuzer and Casboult are back.
Jaksch and Jones as key forwards, Wood and Gorringe as our rucks.
Winning should be the aim in any sporting contest, if Wood isn't to be available to play then he shouldn't be at the club.
Very simplistic view.
If you were serious you would trade all your draft picks every year for ready made players.
It was indeed an initiation by fire for Gorringe who spent much of the first half wondering which planet he had landed on. However, IMO he did seem to get a bit better as the game went on and I think we need to give him a bit of time before we replace him with Wood who again is not the future.
We don't have Casboult to relieve in the ruck, or anyone that can do his job, so you'd play both Wood and Gorringe.
Phillips is going to be the future more so than Gorringe. Not sure the latter will be at Carlton that long. He's not that good. So a choice right now, it I had to choose, would be to play Wood. Need the strong bloke in that position. To me right now, play them both.
Agree with both Jim and shades.
If we are serious about winning and playing finals, then you play Cameron Wood
If you are in a learning environment, and watching which players are good or can compete, listen and stick to what you are tying to implement, then you play Gorringe.
Frustrating yes, losing sucks, but the end game. When Waite, Petrie, Thomas and Boomer are long retired, Plow, Weiters, Byrne and Doc will be dominating opposition forward lines.
Gorringe got a huge learning wake up call yesterday. This is the standard against the every best. Cripps, learnt that you won't always win the taps and you have to fight for every clearance.
We learnt more last night than the other 4 wins IMO and I reckon Bolton enjoyed the wake up call as such. No media this week for the blues, back to business.
Spot on. Last night was a wobble. For the most part we stuck at it - persevering with 'the system' which can be counter-intuitive when the scoreboard is screaming "fail".
I was still wrapt with our younger, newer players. Have enjoyed a little bit of luck in the last few weeks but North got a wake-up call last week and the Cats got one yesterday.
Could tell in the first 5 minutes that we weren't on.
Not disappointed as if you logically look at it, this loss was inevitable.
We were ripe for the picking.
- 6 day break after very physical encounter last Sunday
- Against top of the ladder, undefeated opponent stung last week after embarrassing 2nd half.
- If this was last year, we'd have lost by 100.
- Waite is a flog who has shat on us either through comments in interviews, or actions on the field against us since leaving. Judd was right about him when he said Waite will be a football gypsy. Won't have a club to belong to when he retires. Hated by his former club. Won't be remembered by current Club as will only play 2-3 years there. He can EAD!!
Very simplistic view.
If you were serious you would trade all your draft picks every year for ready made players.
It's not all one way or all the other. You balance looking to win with the development of youth then place the weighting on each. Right now for us it's more development but you still have to have one eye on winning. Youth badly need strength and experience around them to take the physical heat and that definitely includes a physically strong, decent ruckman. Not a position for lightweights to get smashed all over the place. That develops nothing. I'm sure you know that. .
Gorringe isn't exactly a draft pick, he's a delisted free agent who wasn't very good and lazy. In the side because we're desperate. If we're talking Phillips then we're talking a completely different matter. He is the future, strong enough to complete and would play ahead of Wood in regard to the future. Gorringe, don't think so. He's not going to be the future. Soon as Phillips is fit Gorringe will get the arse inside 5 minutes.
Having said that I don't generally disagree, and mostly agree, with what you're trying to say. We are both right mostly.
I actually thought Shadesy's comments were directed at b4l. I think he agrees with you Jim.
...................................
- Waite is a flog who has shat on us either through comments in interviews, or actions on the field against us since leaving. Judd was right about him when he said Waite will be a football gypsy. Won't have a club to belong to when he retires. Hated by his former club. Won't be remembered by current Club as will only play 2-3 years there. He can EAD!!
I don't share this view.
Could tell in the first 5 minutes that we weren't on.
Not disappointed as if you logically look at it, this loss was inevitable.
We were ripe for the picking.
- 6 day break after very physical encounter last Sunday
- Against top of the ladder, undefeated opponent stung last week after embarrassing 2nd half.
- If this was last year, we'd have lost by 100.
- Waite is a flog who has shat on us either through comments in interviews, or actions on the field against us since leaving. Judd was right about him when he said Waite will be a football gypsy. Won't have a club to belong to when he retires. Hated by his former club. Won't be remembered by current Club as will only play 2-3 years there. He can EAD!!
Think we'll be more switched on next week. A young side sometime doesn't come switched on, especially after the effort last week. Still lose by 5-6 goals but be more competitive. Draw is favourable enough to win 8-10 games though, due to finishing last last season, although rounds 16-19 are rotten.
I actually thought Shadesy's comments were directed at b4l. I think he agrees with you Jim.
I think, when we cut through it, we agree. I generally agreed with what he said, just the odd difference on a point, which different opinions produce.
Very simplistic view.
If you were serious you would trade all your draft picks every year for ready made players.
Hardly, because unless you had a Weitering type pick to trade the quality of the ready made players you would receive in exchange would be average at best.
Every club also needs to keep its list fresh, unless as in North's current situation they are rolling the dice for a Premiership, so I've got no problems giving young players a game here and there.
But no-one should ever under value the advantages of competing at all times to win and the mindset it instills in the players, as Carlton supporters we should appreciate it more than most.
I know sentiment shouldn't come into it but I actually felt sorry for Gorringe.
Totally out of his depth and you could almost tell by his face a couple of times he knew it.
Talk about being thrown in the deep end ::)
Nice acrobatic goal though. ;) :D
Hardly, because unless you had a Weitering type pick to trade the quality of the ready made players you would receive in exchange would be average at best.
Every club also needs to keep its list fresh, unless as in North's current situation they are rolling the dice for a Premiership, so I've got no problems giving young players a game here and there.
But no-one should ever under value the advantages of competing at all times to win and the mindset it instills in the players, as Carlton supporters we should appreciate it more than most.
Bolts explained in an article I linked elsewhere that they went with Gorringe because aerobically and athletically he was better able to match Goldy. I think Bolts knew that neither Wood nor Gorringe would be able to out ruck TG.
I'm sure the selection was based on the fielding the best team to win, but he didn't really have much to work with.
We don't have Casboult to relieve in the ruck, or anyone that can do his job, so you'd play both Wood and Gorringe.
Phillips is going to be the future more so than Gorringe. Not sure the latter will be at Carlton that long. He's not that good. So a choice right now, it I had to choose, would be to play Wood. Need the strong bloke in that position. To me right now, play them both.
Don't have a problem with playing them both but too soon to write off Gorringe totally IMO. He may turn out to be useful ruck depth or even elsewhere but we have to find out - only one place to do that with a guy who's been around a few years, as he has.
Some patience McKay is back in training in three weeks and when the time Cas is due back McKay should have a game or two under his belt in VFL which means potentially having Cas and McKay in the forward line by round 15
You seen hellbent on fast tracking these kids who need time to develop, get a full preseason behind them and learn their craft in senior company. I'd be happy not to see McKay or Silvagni get a look in for the rest of the year. If you want to pick them because we want to win every game we play in, 18 yo players are not your saviours. If you want to play them to develop, well let's do it in a sequential, measured way.
We have all been seduced by Weitering and his progress. Weitering is a freak, but he too will need to be monitored carefully in the back half of the year.
Be happy with the progress in 2016, but get excited about 2028-19, it will be fun!!
You seen hellbent on fast tracking these kids who need time to develop, get a full preseason behind them and learn their craft in senior company. I'd be happy not to see McKay or Silvagni get a look in for the rest of the year. If you want to pick them because we want to win every game we play in, 18 yo players are not your saviours. If you want to play them to develop, well let's do it in a sequential, measured way.
We have all been seduced by Weitering and his progress. Weitering is a freak, but he too will need to be monitored carefully in the back half of the year.
Be happy with the progress in 2016, but get excited about 2028-19, it will be fun!!
Youre making it sounds as though fast tracking them and giving them game time look dirty.
Youre making it sounds as though fast tracking them and giving them game time look dirty.
Melbourne tried to make a savior out of Jack Watts.
Melbourne tried to make a savior out of Jack Watts.
Yep. There's a reason we are squeezing every drop of footy out of Jamo and Walker.
The kids are not ready and weeks of 100 point thrashings ruin clubs.
why over many many F...K yrs we do not have players to lead towards the ball carrier this game plan of ours of the long bomb ?
- Waite is a flog who has shat on us either through comments in interviews, or actions on the field against us since leaving. Judd was right about him when he said Waite will be a football gypsy. Won't have a club to belong to when he retires. Hated by his former club. Won't be remembered by current Club as will only play 2-3 years there. He can EAD!!
Amen! >:(
Amen! >:(
It was really irritating at the game last night with a Norp dickhead repeating ad nauseum "It took Norf to make a decent footballer out of him" in a very whiney voice - flog!
Gorringe was beaten by the best ruckman in the game. We wont know how good he is until he has a good run at it. I think he tried, his skills let him down a couple of times, probably due to confidence, and he kicked a goal which demonstrated his athletic ability. Overall their midfield slaughtered us driven by a dominant ruck display, secondly our skills let us down, thirdly our forward line structure was chaotic and fourthly North is a good team at the peak of their game coming off a pretty embarrassing second half performance so they were all fired up. Disappointing loss but lets not slash our wrists and start bagging our team simply because we want to pretend we are more passionate and caring than the players. It is very easy to mean on the internet.
Don't know who Matt Windley is from HUN and how much football nous he's got (or even whether he actually watched the game) but his 'best' were (no. of games in brackets):
Blues: Kerridge (36), Weitering (7), Docherty (57), Byrne (7), Cripps (31), Wright (103 - 9 w/ CFC).
Part of me thinks "that's great"! Part of me wonders where the senior players are. Part of me thinks he might be another Gibbs frustrator (29 disposals to Weits' 11).
Goldstein was BOG by a long way last night. It proves that ruckmen dont matter that much until a really good one comes along and then they matter a great deal. With first use almost guaranteed, north's midfield cleared it out fast, making life easier for their forwards.
Our lack of height hurt us, with a tendency to keep handballing as we lacked a target to kick to. No great surprise, but it meant finding different paths to goal. At times we did OK, but with jones and everitt our two main forwards, kicking much of a score was remote. Wasn't a fan of cripps going third man up, as it means our best clearence player is easier to defend against. Given his movement he was playing injured; not ideal.
Things that were good were the continued good play by docherty, easily our best defender. Kerridge, despite the fumbles at times kept working hard, byrne played well, and Gorringe, despite being utterly smashed in the ruck, presented a bit around the ground and kicked a fun goal. The team kept at it overall, despite being totally outclassed.
Things not to like were the umpiring. Friday's match was a poor one from the umps and it continued. With four umpires running about on the field they are now trying to get involved and it results in greater inconsistency and more uncertainty. Rules are now being enforced selectively, depending on whether ther game is moving or not. How many conferences does it take to decide if the ball went out of bounds? Dilluted responsibility means more second guessing and confusion.
Most ridiculous is the shot clock. I don't care about it per se, but it is embarrassing and ridiculous when a player, as they did several times last night, exceeds the 30 seconds and the umpire does not blow play on. So now we can see clearly the rules not being enforced. Pull your heads out AFL and umpires. It's a very poor spectacle.
And finally, in the theme of poor spectacles, the noise of the announcer and other garbage at north's games doesn't make up for their dismal lack of supporters and contined search for relevance. Most clubs produce pretty naff mascots and assorted silliness, but north are almost parody.
And finally, in the theme of poor spectacles, the noise of the announcer and other garbage at north's games doesn't make up for their dismal lack of supporters and contined search for relevance. Most clubs produce pretty naff mascots and assorted silliness, but north are almost parody.
Totally agree - the 'make some noise' announcement and then the recorded cheering - what a stinker. Recorded cheering, really...??? Next they will have someone holding up 'Applause' signs (like a TV recording) so the 'fans' know when to cheer. Worst 'add-on' I have seen at a match ever.
We should have played Wood instead of Gorringe, Wood at least has some body strength and mongrel and would have made it more uncomfortable for Goldstein.
I would have thought anyone could do this under instruction. It doesnt take that much skill to make a prick of yourself, look at Mummy. Yes he is a good ruckmen but he also genuinely wants to hurt (legally) the other guy.
Goldstein was BOG by a long way last night. It proves that ruckmen dont matter that much until a really good one comes along and then they matter a great deal. With first use almost guaranteed, north's midfield cleared it out fast, making life easier for their forwards.
Our lack of height hurt us, with a tendency to keep handballing as we lacked a target to kick to. No great surprise, but it meant finding different paths to goal. At times we did OK, but with jones and everitt our two main forwards, kicking much of a score was remote. Wasn't a fan of cripps going third man up, as it means our best clearence player is easier to defend against. Given his movement he was playing injured; not ideal.
Things that were good were the continued good play by docherty, easily our best defender. Kerridge, despite the fumbles at times kept working hard, byrne played well, and Gorringe, despite being utterly smashed in the ruck, presented a bit around the ground and kicked a fun goal. The team kept at it overall, despite being totally outclassed.
Things not to like were the umpiring. Friday's match was a poor one from the umps and it continued. With four umpires running about on the field they are now trying to get involved and it results in greater inconsistency and more uncertainty. Rules are now being enforced selectively, depending on whether ther game is moving or not. How many conferences does it take to decide if the ball went out of bounds? Dilluted responsibility means more second guessing and confusion.
Most ridiculous is the shot clock. I don't care about it per se, but it is embarrassing and ridiculous when a player, as they did several times last night, exceeds the 30 seconds and the umpire does not blow play on. So now we can see clearly the rules not being enforced. Pull your heads out AFL and umpires. It's a very poor spectacle.
And finally, in the theme of poor spectacles, the noise of the announcer and other garbage at north's games doesn't make up for their dismal lack of supporters and contined search for relevance. Most clubs produce pretty naff mascots and assorted silliness, but north are almost parody.
Great post. I'm in agreement.
We were unabashedly beaten by a more experienced, bigger, more talented, highly confident, big breasted team.
It was totally expected and I thought (most of ) our boys did their best under the circumstances.
I don't like to sook it and whine about umpires either, but it was a poor showing and on balance we were disadvantaged. I think Kerridge's goal towards the end kind of summed it up. We got a point for a goal :-\. We were outclassed but will take a great deal from it that will strengthen the journey we're on.
If we are serious about winning and playing finals, then you play Cameron Wood
If you are in a learning environment, and watching which players are good or can compete, listen and stick to what you are tying to implement, then you play Gorringe.
Frustrating yes, losing sucks, but the end game. When Waite, Petrie, Thomas and Boomer are long retired, Plow, Weiters, Byrne and Doc will be dominating opposition forward lines.
Gorringe got a huge learning wake up call yesterday. This is the standard against the every best. Cripps, learnt that you won't always win the taps and you have to fight for every clearance.
We learnt more last night than the other 4 wins IMO and I reckon Bolton enjoyed the wake up call as such. No media this week for the blues, back to business.
Think you are right Shades.
Bolts almost looked relieved after the game, like he knew it was coming.
Not unhappy about last night at all.
Thought there was still enough effort despite being woefully undermanned,
It also served as a bit of a reality check...and the experience gained by some of the younger players will be invaluable.
We didn't go backwards last night... just another step along the way.
If we are serious about winning and playing finals, then you play Cameron Wood
If you are in a learning environment, and watching which players are good or can compete, listen and stick to what you are tying to implement, then you play Gorringe.
Frustrating yes, losing sucks, but the end game. When Waite, Petrie, Thomas and Boomer are long retired, Plow, Weiters, Byrne and Doc will be dominating opposition forward lines.
Gorringe got a huge learning wake up call yesterday. This is the standard against the every best. Cripps, learnt that you won't always win the taps and you have to fight for every clearance.
We learnt more last night than the other 4 wins IMO and I reckon Bolton enjoyed the wake up call as such. No media this week for the blues, back to business.
I think you have to play Wood to help develop Gorringe and look after some of your other players too...North are a very big team physically and we needed another big body out there..
I agree its not about winning but by playing Wood with Gorringe you are also looking after your developing players..
An example is Cripps...you dont need too many brains to figure out he is banged up and probably needs a few weeks off and I dont reckon we did him any favours with only Gorringe as our ruckman.
He had to work twice as hard to get a kick with Goldstein dominating and it wont be any easier this week with Geelongs star studded midfield to deal with.....
Can't believe the lack of attention on our mids - around the stoppages and in defensive structures - Gibbs, Murph, Cripps, Curnow etc.
All, ALL had SHOCKERS - that is why we were pumped - not because of Goldstein or our forward line.
And yes, Cripps looks very "banged up". Murph and Gibbs just got caught up in the media BS again.....
This result was bound to happen with some serious outs for our side and an inexperienced line up to start with at full strength. It's amazing we didn't get belted by 20 goals IMO.
Can't believe the lack of attention on our mids - around the stoppages and in defensive structures - Gibbs, Murph, Cripps, Curnow etc.
All, ALL had SHOCKERS - that is why we were pumped - not because of Goldstein or our forward line.
Gibbs was good in the first half. Cripps better in the second.
Goldy killed us.
Totally agree - the 'make some noise' announcement and then the recorded cheering - what a stinker. Recorded cheering, really...??? Next they will have someone holding up 'Applause' signs (like a TV recording) so the 'fans' know when to cheer. Worst 'add-on' I have seen at a match ever.
Not as bad as the NRL TV broadcast. They have canned crowd noise played after every tackle. Listen carefully next time. Reminds me of the looped slow mo crowd noise they used to play on World of Sport when playing non televised game highlights.
Gibbs was good in the first half. Cripps better in the second.
Goldy killed us.
Yes, pretty accurate summary. It's hard to win clearances when you're playing a novice ruckman against the best in the business.
Totally agree - the 'make some noise' announcement and then the recorded cheering - what a stinker. Recorded cheering, really...??? Next they will have someone holding up 'Applause' signs (like a TV recording) so the 'fans' know when to cheer. Worst 'add-on' I have seen at a match ever.
Their banner also caused us a bit of amusement as it was suspended from a couple of helium balloons and attended by only two cheer squad members, reflecting no doubt the size of their membership base? Actually the whole atmosphere there was rather weird and certainly felt very contrived. Certainly not reflective of a team yet to be beaten this year? ???
It's a lot harder to see on TV, but we totally lack any forward structure and get sucked up the ground far too easily.
I said this after the Suns game I went to earlier in the season and it doesn't seem to have changed, but it is crazy to see our mids running forward but then not having anyone to kick it to. Instead, they stop, prop, get tackled, often causing a turnover. Bolts, please sort this out !!
Gibbs' stats might look good, but I actually thought he had a stinker, he gets lost in our zone far too easily for my liking. The number of times I saw him running around like a chook with his head cut off trying to work out where he was meant to be might have been laughable if he wasn't a senior player on the team.
Murphy is just a gun, I've noticed this the last couple of weeks, and it stood out even more being at the game, his 2nd or repeat efforts are just amazing, jeez he must be fit !!
I'm really excited in Casey Byrnes development, he was BOG for us this week for me, even eclipsing Docherty who also played quite well.
I was really impressed with a couple of Sumners tackles inside our F50, he was providing some really good pressure. Shame he didn't finish his work off with a few more goals.
Did I read somewhere we took 9 marks inside 50? It was certainly a few, but then why are so many of our guys afraid to go back and take the responsibility for a shot at goal?
It was really irritating at the game last night with a Norp dickhead repeating ad nauseum "It took Norf to make a decent footballer out of him" in a very whiney voice - flog!
It took the AFL's money to make a decent football Club out of North Melbourne lol
Oh and that pathetic curtain thing they use as their banner... OMFG!! Is it a footy team running onto the ground, or the cast of the Phantom of the Opera lol.
(http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/AFL+Rd+2+North+Melbourne+v+Brisbane+E_chX2quUItl.jpg)
Gibbs was good in the first half. Cripps better in the second.
Goldy killed us.
I just got tired of watching the tide of blue and white striped bodies surging away from stoppages offering a multitude of options to the clearer! They had a pretty handy quartet in Swallow, Zeibell, Dal Santo and Cunnington at work. :(
I just got tired of watching the tide of blue and white striped bodies surging away from stoppages offering a multitude of options to the clearer! They had a pretty handy quartet in Swallow, Zeibell, Dal Santo and Cunnington at work. :(
I guess we now have a verdict in the old Yarran v Rich v Ziebell debate.
Oh and that pathetic curtain thing they use as their banner... OMFG!! Is it a footy team running onto the ground, or the cast of the Phantom of the Opera lol.
No dissimilar to our 'curtain thing' that is still held up by poles and 15 people. (We went from paper to material when Juddy made us go 'green')
I guess we now have a verdict in the old Yarran v Rich v Ziebell debate.
Paul you must be psychic! We actually said that at the game. :))
No dissimilar to our 'curtain thing' that is still held up by poles and 15 people. (We went from paper to material when Juddy made us go 'green')
At least we don't have our own scale model of the Hindenberg to suspend it from.
I think the loss will do us more good than harm,it puts into perspective where we are at as a football team the last thing you want is a lot of honourable losses so the club and supporters start to think we are already there,theses sort of losses will only make the club and coaching stall work harder to bridge the gap.As long as we have the likes of army,jamo,walker,jones,Rowe and a couple of others in our side we will never ever match it with the big boys.
We may beat the bottom half of the ladder but that's where we have been since 95.When Casboult,and down the line somewhere C Curnow ,McKay,Silvagni.are all in our team we may have a forward line and some structure.We really are a key backman short at the moment and a couple of hard nut inside mids,as soon as murph ,Gibbs and Cripps are off we really struggle and our only true ruckman at the moment is kruezer,I have high hopes for Philips as I thought he has got something going for him,let's hope he is not another Kruezer and injury prone.Buckly,Tutt and Graham are another three that will have there papers stamped at the end of there contracts as none of the three are anything special and never will be.They try hard and I love them for that but what top team would any of them get a game with.if you are judging our players judge them on who would make a Hawks or Swans side and that will tell you exactly where they are.
Like it or not at least it's my opinion.
I haven't seen the incident, but I was told Harvey let rip a short arm jab to Gibbs as Gibbs ran past.
How the feck does Gibbs get a fine but the sniper Harvey isn't even investigated?
I think the loss will do us more good than harm,it puts into perspective where we are at as a football team the last thing you want is a lot of honourable losses so the club and supporters start to think we are already there,theses sort of losses will only make the club and coaching stall work harder to bridge the gap.As long as we have the likes of army,jamo,walker,jones,Rowe and a couple of others in our side we will never ever match it with the big boys.
We may beat the bottom half of the ladder but that's where we have been since 95.When Casboult,and down the line somewhere C Curnow ,McKay,Silvagni.are all in our team we may have a forward line and some structure.We really are a key backman short at the moment and a couple of hard nut inside mids,as soon as murph ,Gibbs and Cripps are off we really struggle and our only true ruckman at the moment is kruezer,I have high hopes for Philips as I thought he has got something going for him,let's hope he is not another Kruezer and injury prone.Buckly,Tutt and Graham are another three that will have there papers stamped at the end of there contracts as none of the three are anything special and never will be.They try hard and I love them for that but what top team would any of them get a game with.if you are judging our players judge them on who would make a Hawks or Swans side and that will tell you exactly where they are.Like it or not at least it's my opinion.
Don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment, but the bolded bit caught my eye.
I guess we now have a verdict in the old Yarran v Rich v Ziebell debate.
Yep Ziebell was the rank outsider but has left the other two way behind and has also progressed as a leader...I guess thats one reason North have progressed having got that selection right...
I haven't seen the incident, but I was told Harvey let rip a short arm jab to Gibbs as Gibbs ran past.
How the feck does Gibbs get a fine but the sniper Harvey isn't even investigated?
Good question but I suspect Gibbs will think it was value for money.
It's good to see our blokes not taking shyte from anyone.
Question from the game - who played on Petrie? Was it Simon White? I forgot to take note of this match-up when I was at the game. I know Plowman started on Brown & got murdered early, but not sure if White played on Petrie or Waite.
I really think that this time last year that game would have been a 100+ point loss for us. Despite Goldstein giving their mids an armchair ride our boys never threw in the towel. And this time last year, personnel wise, we probably would have fielded a stronger side.
There were some obvious positives. The continued development of Byrne... the bloke has only played about 8 games FFS!!! Sumner will only improve, especially when he gets a proper pre season. Docherty as player and leader continues to grow. Weitering slotted back in beautifully and showed no tentative actions re his shoulder. Plowman continues to improve....
We know we have some real triers but they're just not up to it. Hopefully, this time next year blokes who just can't break into the senior side will include, Walker, Armfield, Everitt, Graham, Jamison, Jones, Lamb, Rowe, White etc...
Question from the game - who played on Petrie? Was it Simon White? I forgot to take note of this match-up when I was at the game. I know Plowman started on Brown & got murdered early, but not sure if White played on Petrie or Waite.
I think there were certainly changes rung but when I noticed I think it was Plowman on Waite, Weitering on Brown and White on Petrie, who did not seem to be figuring much at that time. Rowe moved back later in the game also.
Thanks Cookie - I was almost sure it was White on Petrie, but just wanted to be backed-up on that. In that case, White played an excellent game it has to be said.
Anyone else disappointed in our midfield setup for centre bounces? Surely we had to play tight man-on-man, but I did not see this tactic at any stage & thought our coaches got it horribly wrong in that regard. They knew Goldstein would have free reign at the centre bounces, but I don't think Bolton & co. hatched a good enough plan to counter that.....thought it was Bolton's biggest fail so far this year (not the result, but the inability to formulate a tactic to counter a dominant opposing ruckman).
Question from the game - who played on Petrie? Was it Simon White? I forgot to take note of this match-up when I was at the game. I know Plowman started on Brown & got murdered early, but not sure if White played on Petrie or Waite.
Watching a fair bit of David Kings (yes, I know) stuff recently and he shows a lot of forward and back set ups .
Last night he showed one where the three forwards lined up on the three backs but as the ball was bounced in the centre the three backs held a v shape defensive structure from CHF but the forwards ran off and did what they liked, even swapping opponents.
It wasn't out game but I don't think players actually play on opponent often anymore as a single strategy. The Swap and change depending on what roles each other has and the forwards try to get the matchups they want.
Would love to be in on some of those meetings.
I'd love to sit in on A pre-game meeting
Thanks Cookie - I was almost sure it was White on Petrie, but just wanted to be backed-up on that. In that case, White played an excellent game it has to be said.
Anyone else disappointed in our midfield setup for centre bounces? Surely we had to play tight man-on-man, but I did not see this tactic at any stage & thought our coaches got it horribly wrong in that regard. They knew Goldstein would have free reign at the centre bounces, but I don't think Bolton & co. hatched a good enough plan to counter that.....thought it was Bolton's biggest fail so far this year (not the result, but the inability to formulate a tactic to counter a dominant opposing ruckman).
It might simply be that we are not playing man on man anywhere anymore and its all about how the group functions rather than the particular matchup.
It might simply be that we are not playing man on man anywhere anymore and its all about how the group functions rather than the particular matchup.
Bolts and the players have said many times that it team defence so they are sticking to the game plan. Time will tell if the personal that we currently have can execute the plan or if there are tweaks that need to be made along the way.
Thanks Cookie - I was almost sure it was White on Petrie, but just wanted to be backed-up on that. In that case, White played an excellent game it has to be said.
Anyone else disappointed in our midfield setup for centre bounces? Surely we had to play tight man-on-man, but I did not see this tactic at any stage & thought our coaches got it horribly wrong in that regard. They knew Goldstein would have free reign at the centre bounces, but I don't think Bolton & co. hatched a good enough plan to counter that.....thought it was Bolton's biggest fail so far this year (not the result, but the inability to formulate a tactic to counter a dominant opposing ruckman).
They also played a loose man in defense all night, giving us an extra player further up the ground, and we didn't make very good use of that either!
Thanks Cookie - I was almost sure it was White on Petrie, but just wanted to be backed-up on that. In that case, White played an excellent game it has to be said.
Anyone else disappointed in our midfield setup for centre bounces? Surely we had to play tight man-on-man, but I did not see this tactic at any stage & thought our coaches got it horribly wrong in that regard. They knew Goldstein would have free reign at the centre bounces, but I don't think Bolton & co. hatched a good enough plan to counter that.....thought it was Bolton's biggest fail so far this year (not the result, but the inability to formulate a tactic to counter a dominant opposing ruckman).
it has become a joke. Who is the midfield coach?
it has become a joke. Who is the midfield coach?
Tim Clarke - Midfield
John Barker - stoppages
team defence should start in our fwd line,easy turnover cause no structure going fwd so the opp just run it out ,think all the easy goals nth got and even collingwood game
Thanks Cookie - I was almost sure it was White on Petrie, but just wanted to be backed-up on that. In that case, White played an excellent game it has to be said.
Anyone else disappointed in our midfield setup for centre bounces? Surely we had to play tight man-on-man, but I did not see this tactic at any stage & thought our coaches got it horribly wrong in that regard. They knew Goldstein would have free reign at the centre bounces, but I don't think Bolton & co. hatched a good enough plan to counter that.....thought it was Bolton's biggest fail so far this year (not the result, but the inability to formulate a tactic to counter a dominant opposing ruckman).
BB is far from stupid so I guess the only conclusion we can draw atm is that the set up is a WIP that we haven't yet mastered or perfected?? Just guessing but hopefully we'll improve over time. Things under development can sometimes fall apart under stress and North's mids are just the class of guys who can apply that stress in spades in terms of probing to find weak points.
team defence should start in our fwd line,easy turnover cause no structure going fwd so the opp just run it out ,think all the easy goals nth got and even collingwood game
Pretty easy to blame the forwardline for an easy turnover.
If we lowered our eyes and hit targets rather than just bombing it long, we might actually be able to keep it in there.
How often did our "forward entry" end up going straight to a 3 on 1 contest against us with Robbie Tarrant taking a very easy mark?
The answer isnt to do with what our forwards were not doing, and very much to do with the lack of intelligence in our ball use.
Pretty easy to blame the forwardline for an easy turnover.
If we lowered our eyes and hit targets rather than just bombing it long, we might actually be able to keep it in there.
How often did our "forward entry" end up going straight to a 3 on 1 contest against us with Robbie Tarrant taking a very easy mark?
The answer isnt just to do with what our forwards were not doing, and very much to do with the lack of intelligence in our ball use.
I sort of agree with an edit!
I think the forward line is weak, but the ball use is worse! ;)
Even with Buckley out of the side, as he is often a horrendous decision maker and ball user, we haven't really improved.
Players like Lamb, Plowman and Sumner should improve over the next two or three seasons, the older players it is already too late for them I am afraid.
PS; I am not sure Weitering can get any better than he already is, having said that we haven't really seen him use his feet with confidence yet. Wait until he starts hitting 40-50m bullet like passes and 70m shots at goal. He did it at junior level and in the TAC Cup but we haven't seen much of it as yet, he is playing it safe and also his team-mates are not switched on to the range the kids leg has! 60m away they are often not watching or leading!
DELETED
Tim Clarke - Midfield
John Barker - stoppages
Bolts thinks they're going well.
Bolts thinks they're going well.
Clarke and Barker MAY be going well, but that doesn't mean we don't have problems in this area.
It has been VERY clear from Day 1 that we have a new midfield setup. In particular, it is clear that we are working on getting the ball out quickly, and we are not worrying so much about stopping our opponents getting the ball out (the opposite to what things were like under Malthouse), an almost recklessly attacking approach compared to our old defensive mindset. Guys have roles there and they are working to a plan. You could see it in both the seniors and the NBs: the setup is distinct and designed to have someone who is quick and can kick the ball well and long to get the pill. It appears to be a high risk - high reward strategy and it definitely didn't work early in the piece.
It was most obvious to me in the Suns game, where Ablett and Hall picked off Murphy and Gibbs as they handballed to where they expected players to be and they were not there.
It also depended on the rucks at least breaking even, managing to minimize the taps to advantage that the opposition got. Like Hawthorn, it didn't matter so much that we did not get the tap, as long as the opposition did not get dominance from it.
Therein lies most of our problems.
Our ruckmen have made significant improvements, but they are not yet doing everything that the coaches want them to do. That our senior ruckmen have been dropping like flies does not help the team or the centre square structures.
For example, early in the season Kreuzer was being effected the way he was trying to effect others: his taps were being interfered with at the centre bounce and did not go quite in the right spot or at the right speed. The GC ruckman was particularly good at doing this. And against Richmond neither Kreuzer nor Philips could get on top of Hampson, who managed to direct his taps very well. In the Sydney game things were like the Suns game: our midfield possessions were being interfered with, leading to fumbles and tackles, or being picked off, leading to uninterrupted clearances going the other way.
Our mids are getting better at our new structures: they have improved their clearance work a lot and no not get picked off like they were. Kreuzer and Phillips were doing a better job and gaining some confidence while they were doing it, leading to more marks around the ground.
Unfortunately injury then stuffed us up. Gorringe tried, but he was not able to effect Goldstein enough. Goldstein had a huge number of taps to advantage, which left us open and vulnerable.
Our mids came back well, but the Roos' structures were going perfectly to plan because of their total ruck dominance.
I do not expect to have the same problems this week, Geelong's ruck combination is not as good as Goldstein is. However, they are likely to get first use of the ball and they do have some quality midfielders.
I am more fearful of playing West Coast. NicNat is as good a ruckman as anyone, and more athletic than most. When he gets taps, they are usually to advantage. It is rare competing ruckmen interfere with his taps: he either gets them or he doesn't. That is something we do not yet have the ability to combat.
Nor are we alone. When Hawthorn had their ruck woes at the start of the season, they lost. Their young ruckman could not interfere with his opponents successfully. Their opponents got the ball out cleanly and beat them. The next week Hawthorn got a ruckman back, and they managed to hold on to win. They did the trick 3 times in 3 close ones.
Mind you, Hawthorn are also very dependent on Mitchell. But that is another tale.
Barker and Clarke still have a fair bit of work to do to straighten out our midfield structures. I won't cry for them to abandon their plans yet, but they have to modify them to suit what we can put out on the field. That I have not seen yet.
@Crash
An interesting read Crash, thanks for your efforts. On the subject though of BB modifying his plans to suit the cattle, if I understand him at all I think that he will pursue his plans relentlessly and will eventually move on those players that can't execute them properly. I just don't think he will be prepared to compromise.
Clarke and Barker MAY be going well, but that doesn't mean we don't have problems in this area.
It has been VERY clear from Day 1 that we have a new midfield setup. In particular, it is clear that we are working on getting the ball out quickly, and we are not worrying so much about stopping our opponents getting the ball out (the opposite to what things were like under Malthouse), an almost recklessly attacking approach compared to our old defensive mindset. Guys have roles there and they are working to a plan. You could see it in both the seniors and the NBs: the setup is distinct and designed to have someone who is quick and can kick the ball well and long to get the pill. It appears to be a high risk - high reward strategy and it definitely didn't work early in the piece.
It was most obvious to me in the Suns game, where Ablett and Hall picked off Murphy and Gibbs as they handballed to where they expected players to be and they were not there.
It also depended on the rucks at least breaking even, managing to minimize the taps to advantage that the opposition got. Like Hawthorn, it didn't matter so much that we did not get the tap, as long as the opposition did not get dominance from it.
Therein lies most of our problems.
Our ruckmen have made significant improvements, but they are not yet doing everything that the coaches want them to do. That our senior ruckmen have been dropping like flies does not help the team or the centre square structures.
For example, early in the season Kreuzer was being effected the way he was trying to effect others: his taps were being interfered with at the centre bounce and did not go quite in the right spot or at the right speed. The GC ruckman was particularly good at doing this. And against Richmond neither Kreuzer nor Philips could get on top of Hampson, who managed to direct his taps very well. In the Sydney game things were like the Suns game: our midfield possessions were being interfered with, leading to fumbles and tackles, or being picked off, leading to uninterrupted clearances going the other way.
Our mids are getting better at our new structures: they have improved their clearance work a lot and no not get picked off like they were. Kreuzer and Phillips were doing a better job and gaining some confidence while they were doing it, leading to more marks around the ground.
Unfortunately injury then stuffed us up. Gorringe tried, but he was not able to effect Goldstein enough. Goldstein had a huge number of taps to advantage, which left us open and vulnerable.
Our mids came back well, but the Roos' structures were going perfectly to plan because of their total ruck dominance.
I do not expect to have the same problems this week, Geelong's ruck combination is not as good as Goldstein is. However, they are likely to get first use of the ball and they do have some quality midfielders.
I am more fearful of playing West Coast. NicNat is as good a ruckman as anyone, and more athletic than most. When he gets taps, they are usually to advantage. It is rare competing ruckmen interfere with his taps: he either gets them or he doesn't. That is something we do not yet have the ability to combat.
Nor are we alone. When Hawthorn had their ruck woes at the start of the season, they lost. Their young ruckman could not interfere with his opponents successfully. Their opponents got the ball out cleanly and beat them. The next week Hawthorn got a ruckman back, and they managed to hold on to win. They did the trick 3 times in 3 close ones.
Mind you, Hawthorn are also very dependent on Mitchell. But that is another tale.
Barker and Clarke still have a fair bit of work to do to straighten out our midfield structures. I won't cry for them to abandon their plans yet, but they have to modify them to suit what we can put out on the field. That I have not seen yet.
Where you are building a team, and clearly focussing on recruiting new blood and transitioning game styles you dont change it up every week unless you do so by design to see what limitations you have in your group.
Realistically though, you teach players to play your way which involves accepting they will get it wrong often, right sometimes, but it wont improve without repeating the process.
You can accept that you don't have the cattle and change the plan but that may effect everything else accordingly resulting in a year where you changed plans to something that isnt what you want to be doing moving forward, and is completely counter productive because it fits the team better. Thats a waste of time IMHO.
Realistically, the coach should stick to how he wants to play and we all need to accept that whether or not we are suited to it, is irrelevant as players will learn in time how it works and react accordingly and if they don't learn or wont play the way the coach plays, then in the market they are free to find somewhere else that will play the way they want to.
If we believe we have the right coach, then we need to accept that any stubborn sticking to a particular way of playing is for the longer term benefit at the expense of now in order for everyone to learn what to do accordingly.
@Crash
An interesting read Crash, thanks for your efforts. On the subject though of BB modifying his plans to suit the cattle, if I understand him at all I think that he will pursue his plans relentlessly and will eventually move on those players that can't execute them properly. I just don't think he will be prepared to compromise.
Looks a bit that way to me. I am not complaining.
Looks a bit that way to me. I am not complaining.
I see it that way, and keep in mind for years we won clearances and lost everywhere else!