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Re: Review

Reply #465 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Different lists.

Teague took over Boltons list.
Teague got more wins in his first 11 games than Bolton did in his last 50+.
Wrong, Teague got 6 wins in his first 11, Bolts got 8 in his last 50.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Review

Reply #466 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Wrong, Teague got 6 wins in his first 11, Bolts got 8 in his last 50.

Good point. Teague got those wins in the midst of Caretaker Coach Euphoria. Bolton was getting his pants pulled down by anyone who walked past towards the end, much like Teague is now.

I've got nothing against Teague, but those who are pumping up his record as some amazing thing are basing their arguments on fluff. If his record was so great, the club would not be in review mode and the football world would not be disillusioned and baying for blood. Whether those reactions are fair and reasonable is not the issue.

Re: Review

Reply #468 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Typo, was meant to say 40+.
All the data I've looked at has been comparing 40 games.
Regardless, the critics are ignoring the massive change in the way we play, and just looking at the results.

If Bolton had made as much progress and impact on our game style and scoring in his first two years as Teague has, then Bolton might not have got the sack!

In my opinion Teague is on the right track, with a trajectory that suggests huge improvement is possible over the next two seasons, and our club best be wary of the white ants that can see that and look to opportunistically get on board, and also be wary of our enemies that look to scupper that progress by any means possible.

The white ants see the reality, we are just 2 or 3 goals in the first half season away from being in the bottom of the top eight, the impatient fans are fools if they fail to recognise that change!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Review

Reply #469 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Good point. Teague got those wins in the midst of Caretaker Coach Euphoria. Bolton was getting his pants pulled down by anyone who walked past towards the end, much like Teague is now.

I've got nothing against Teague, but those who are pumping up his record as some amazing thing are basing their arguments on fluff. If his record was so great, the club would not be in review mode and the football world would not be disillusioned and baying for blood. Whether those reactions are fair and reasonable is not the issue.
You misunderstand.

I'm not saying his record is so good. I'm saying it's not as bad as people make out.
You say it's a new list.
I point to Bolton's efforts with the same list.

Again, it's not just about wins and losses but being competitive too.

Outside of Carlton, nobody expected Carlton to do much this year....or at least other than a very select few did.
The noise about this is coming from Carlton supporters who drank the coolaid that our pr department was selling.......and the media jumping on board and contradicting their own opinions.

Expectations aside. We are NOT going that badly....certainly not sack the coach worthy. Certainly not with the draw we've had and the injuries we've had.
If we don't win another game from here...re-evaluate.
 

Re: Review

Reply #470 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
You misunderstand.

I'm not saying his record is so good. I'm saying it's not as bad as people make out.
You say it's a new list.
I point to Bolton's efforts with the same list.

Again, it's not just about wins and losses but being competitive too.

Outside of Carlton, nobody expected Carlton to do much this year....or at least other than a very select few did.
The noise about this is coming from Carlton supporters who drank the coolaid that our pr department was selling.......and the media jumping on board and contradicting their own opinions.

Expectations aside. We are NOT going that badly....certainly not sack the coach worthy. Certainly not with the draw we've had and the injuries we've had.
If we don't win another game from here...re-evaluate.

Sorry K, but Pauly is spot on and I believe suggesting that if BB was judged on Ws and Ls then so should The TT. BB had us competitive as well factoring what he had to work with... the TT has more talent to work with than BB did.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Review

Reply #471 –
I just wonder how strong the 'sack the coach' sentiment really is.
A few folks are calling for his head but I think the messaging is more that 'He's struggling and if things don't improve he'll lucky to be the coach next year."

That's not rocket science.
But the club really don't have to do much because they've bought a little time with the review.
The time that takes will mean that any findings and recommendations probably won't  be made much before the season ends.
That will give us time to see how the back half of the season pans out.

Even a big loss against Adelaide can be disregarded in light of the 'review'
They can say "we don't want to preempt its findings"
That doesn't mean the club wouldn't act.
If they want to make a change they can still do that.
Clever little tactic the old 'review' and 'rebuild'

Re: Review

Reply #472 –
Quote from: LP – on
Regardless, the critics are ignoring the massive change in the way we play, and just looking at the results.

If Bolton had made as much progress and impact on our game style and scoring in his first two years as Teague has, then Bolton might not have got the sack!

In my opinion Teague is on the right track, with a trajectory that suggests huge improvement is possible over the next two seasons, and our club best be wary of the white ants that can see that and look to opportunistically get on board, and also be wary of our enemies that look to scupper that progress by any means possible.

The white ants see the reality, we are just 2 or 3 goals in the first half season away from being in the bottom of the top eight, the impatient fans are fools if they fail to recognise that change!

I share this opinion.

Ironically we are like the chef that has made the recipe for quite a good slow cooked meal and its simmering away now for the requisite time its going to take for it to be complete.

Through impatience, we keep lifting the lid, adding more salt, pepper, and anything else we think will accelerate the cooking process and in the end are going to spoil the dish.

Just leave the lid on, bubbling away, and get the sides and table ready to serve please, and stop fecking about with it!!

This could change if the dish boils over and we start getting thumped, but I suspect that its quite inconsequential.  The return of Plowman is the single most interesting part of this weekend for me.  If our defence magically stops bleeding as much as it has recently its a direct effect of having someone who is mopping up after the others there and his stature will grow accordingly.  Or not, it is only Adelaide we are playing against after all.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Review

Reply #473 –
I actually think it is quite unfair to compare BB and The TT. Each had very different briefs. One was to rebuild and teach the fundamentals, the other to play finals.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Review

Reply #474 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I'm pretty sure I read comments from Silvagni that he was on board with getting Betts to the club. I think what gave him the sh1ts is that (according to him) Liddle offered Betts more money than what has originally agreed to.

That may be the case. As I said it's just a guess.
You would think though that a plan with a huge emphasis on attack at the expense of defence would not be the favoured option of a list manager looking for a balanced side with multiple options...especially one who was one of the all time great defenders.
Recruiting and list managing is apparently one of the key features to be looked at...

If this review is fair dinkum, somewhere near the top of my 'witness' list is Stephen Silvagni.
If he's a willing participant it may extend the review's feelers into other sections of the club.

Re: Review

Reply #475 –
The club has thrown out the slow cooker and has invested in a wok and pressure cooker. Whether it's right or wrong, they want results fast. I think they were always a little delusional expecting finals this year, but that's irrelevant.

Re: Review

Reply #476 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
I actually think it is quite unfair to compare BB and The TT. Each had very different briefs. One was to rebuild and teach the fundamentals, the other to play finals.

Why is it an either discussion is a more important reason for why Bolton is drawing criticism and why Teague is also similarly in trouble.

In Bolton's first year as coach, minus a few young draftees by the name of Weitering, Charlie and JSOS, Bolton had a list that actually was ready to compete at AFL level.

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2016/031420160324.html

Teague's biggest criticism seems to be about not playing enough of the youngsters, but at the same time we criticised (and then sacked Bolton) for much the same by the end.

The truth is, the clubs Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde swings and roundabouts are the biggest issue we face.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Review

Reply #477 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Sorry K, but Pauly is spot on and I believe suggesting that if BB was judged on Ws and Ls then so should The TT. BB had us competitive as well factoring what he had to work with... the TT has more talent to work with than BB did.

Short memories.
I've already showed it's not just about wins and losses.
Including last week, teague has been beaten by 5 goals or more 3 times. Most by 63 against Geelong.
Bolton's last 40 games he was beaten by 100 points 3 times.
On top of that he was beaten by 60-99 points 3 times as well.
I think he was beaten by 5 goals or more about 12 times in his last 40 games.
Competitive? Not most weeks.

The amount of games Bolton won, is the amount of games we are not competitive under Teague.

Re: Review

Reply #478 –
With the various investments the club has made, they weren't looking for a move from "mostly honourable losses with a few hidings" to "all honourable losses". As far as the club is concerned, that's not good enough, hence the review.

Re: Review

Reply #479 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
The truth is, the clubs Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde swings and roundabouts are the biggest issue we face.
I completely agree with this.

I see fans piling pressure on Teague, because Teague is being measured based on the long term suffering we've endured across Brittain, Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Bolton and Teague.

FWIW, I think Bolton's rebuild is somewhat a wasted era, we didn't get enough middle tier quality players out of it, we are still basically stuck with a handful of A-Graders surrounded by players who might barely be bench warmers elsewhere. This is not Teague's fault, and he's had nowhere near enough time to do anything about it.

I have no idea where the expectation of finals in 2021 comes from, it's a form of fan delirium that most of us never bought into, and a perspective the media want to push to pile on the pain. Liddle and his marketing team spin are partly to blame. But it's the naivety of fans that let them buy into that, they are swallowing the spin, and as far as I can see that is not something to blame Teague for!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"