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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4185 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Who the f... are you to tell me what I am thinking?
Most of us write what we think, it's a dead giveaway, but I'll keep in mind for future debates you might be contrary to that! :o

As I've already responded, the documents you post do not support the conclusions you post, in fact the docs suggest the very opposite of your claims because the data is qualified and so it's context is important. Which I think is partly the point @dodge was making, and which seems quite reasonable.

Nobody is claiming the documents got the math wrong .........................! ;)

The spread of Delta comes after the learnings taken from the original strain, and after the actions taken to mitigate Sars-CoV-2, @dodge was quite right to point out this asymmetry, which is made obvious in the report and influences the conclusions. That important context is easily missed if disparate data points are cherry-picked from across the document.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4186 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Any idiot knows that lockdowns have never previously been recommended in history, prior to 2020, as EVERYONE with half a clue knows the cost of  lockdown is simply far, far too great.
I suppose if you ignore history like the Spanish Flu you could be correct, ..........but maybe not! :o
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus

And they never did archaic things in the past like requiring masks! ::)


I get you are hurting @flyboy77‍ , but protesting, denying or declining appropriate action while potentially promoting harmful behaviours or solutions is not the fastest way out of this. In fact your actions may extend the pain!

If you need it resolved quickly, if you want to get back as close to normal as can ever be expected, then get everyone vaccinated who can be vaccinated as soon as possible, get your family vaccinated, get your friends vaccinated and get on with it as quickly as possible while complying with the flattening of the curve and the mitigation strategies! ;)

They got it in 1918 and they didn't need the Interwebs to understand why! :o



Court was held in open spaces to avoid indoor crowds.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4187 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on

Any idiot knows that lockdowns have never previously been recommended in history, prior to 2020, as EVERYONE with half a clue knows the cost of  lockdown is simply far, far too great.


This idiot seems to vividly recall from his history lessons and an ABC special on the 'Spanish Flu' (so named not because it came from Spain, but that Spain was the first nation to provide accurate statistics and information) that Sydney did in fact resort to shutting many businesses, closing schools, entertainment venues and so on. The unemployment level spiked as a result of these 'lockdown' measures, along with mandatory masks and fines for those not wearing masks. Until these measures were instituted the virus was spreading uncontrollably. These measures did slow the infections and reduce death rates.

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4188 –
Yes, no doubt lockdowns and masks have been used in the past, perhaps not to this extent, but the principle is exactly the same.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4189 –
If you're interested, here's some real science about COVID-19, not half-arsed garbage from charlatans:

First up there's "COVID research: a year of scientific milestones" published in Nature: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

One little snippet to whet your appetite:

Quote
A large clinical trial has found no evidence that the drug hydroxychloroquine protects people from COVID-19.

Some world leaders have embraced hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19 or as an agent to prevent the disease. David Boulware at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis and his colleagues randomly assigned 821 people to take either hydroxychloroquine or a placebo within 4 days of exposure to SARS-CoV-2 (D. R. Boulware et al. N. Engl. J. Med. http://doi.org/dxkv; 2020). Some study participants were health-care workers who had contact with infected people; others shared a house with an infected person.

Then there's "A look into the future of the COVID-19 pandemic in Europe: an expert consultation" published in The Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00162-9/fulltext

A brief quote from that paper follows:

Quote
Our starting point is the situation as of spring 2021. During the COVID-19 waves in winter 2020–2021, many European countries experienced high numbers of infections that, in some places, overwhelmed hospitals. This was partly due to insufficient ICU capacity in some countries [[2]]. Delayed responses and lower effectiveness of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) compared to the first wave also played a part [[3]]. Even countries that have had relatively few cases and a low death toll until then were hit severely in the winter. As of early 2021, Europe is experiencing another surge in cases, which appears to have peaked in April 2021. The emergence and severity of these waves has varied greatly across Europe (see Fig. 1, Fig. 2). The future development of the pandemic will also likely be heterogeneous. In the following sections we focus on three key factors that contribute to this heterogeneity.

The science is unequivocal and I really don't understand how/why anyone can't see that. 
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4190 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The science is unequivocal and I really don't understand how/why anyone can't see that.
@DJC‍  Thanks for the links.

Unfortunately, for many I think the real science doesn't matter, Sars-CoV-2 has become more a political issue than a issue of health and welfare. That is at least until they get sick, at which time it all changes and it becomes doctors and scientists aren't doing enough to save me, ................... ! ;)

Having listened to lots of experts understanding the heterogeneity is key.  They can study and use that info to correctly and quickly lead to Sars-CoV-2 being used against itself, hopefully leading to better more efficacious vaccines that can stop infection and transmission as well as reducing case severity. In the long term the hope is we will have a vaccine that like the Influenza vaccine is a blend built on several less virulent strains but in total more effective, as well as a predictive model that will allow the more accurate forecasts of future Sars-CoV-2 strains, much like in already done with the Influenza vaccines.

An interesting side effect of Sars-CoV-2, the mitigation steps taken to address Sars-CoV-2 might be throwing a short term spanner in the Influenza modelling. Some experts are warning the plummeting Influenza case rate could have a detrimental effect on the models used to predict next seasons Influenza strains. Apparently, like the Sars-CoV-2 vaccines the Influenza vaccine doesn't stop us getting Influenza, it mostly just moderates the symptoms so the infection becomes mild or asymptomatic. But researchers still use how the current strains spread to feed data into the predictive modelling for next years Influenza. The lack of cases is ironically bad for the model, as a result there are doubts about which future strains are most likely to be prominent, the experts worry not enough is being done now to prepare for next years Influenza.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4191 –
Quote from: DJC – on
If you're interested, here's some real science about COVID-19, not half-arsed garbage from charlatans:

First up there's "COVID research: a year of scientific milestones" published in Nature: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

One little snippet to whet your appetite:

Then there's "A look into the future of the COVID-19 pandemic in Europe: an expert consultation" published in The Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00162-9/fulltext

A brief quote from that paper follows:

The science is unequivocal and I really don't understand how/why anyone can't see that. 

As we used to say in the Navy (oh, cr@p, here he goes again!), David -- Top Hole (where the premium rum was kept in them thar days of wooden ships).

As is my bent, I am fascinated by 'deniers' and the psychology of such folks and why they're drawn, somewhat compulsively, to such fringe and extremist views and the rejection of any science that is counter or different to their stance. I'll share some of my findings another time... not just my findings I should add. This is a phenomena that is well researched and reported on by a number of experts in the professions of psychology, psychiatry and allied fields.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4192 –
The AFR had an article suggesting that to return to normal @70%Vaccination levels the global modelling says we would have to accept up to 20 deaths per day.
Pre Covid 8 people died per day in Australia from Influenza/Virus leading to pneumonia which may surprise some.
The AFR are of course balancing that vs the need to rebuild the world economies.
Selling 20 deaths a day including some vaccinated people in those numbers won't be an easy sell as well as carrying high numbers of infections maybe for a couple of years.
It may take mask wearing and light restrictions still applying to see the end of lockdowns even with decent vaccination rates..

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4193 –
Quote from: DJC – on
If you're interested, here's some real science about COVID-19, not half-arsed garbage from charlatans:

First up there's "COVID research: a year of scientific milestones" published in Nature: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

One little snippet to whet your appetite:

Then there's "A look into the future of the COVID-19 pandemic in Europe: an expert consultation" published in The Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00162-9/fulltext

A brief quote from that paper follows:

The science is unequivocal and I really don't understand how/why anyone can't see that. 

Gee, you go away for half a day and the boys gather round for a back slapping session.

So be it.

1. The Spanish Flu

They did not lock down, they quarantined the sick.

Healthy people were not.

Masks - indeed, the likely causes of most of the deaths due to Bacterial Pneumonia.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/bacterial-pneumonia-caused-most-deaths-1918-influenza-pandemic

Quote
Pathologists of the time, he adds, were nearly unanimous in the conviction that deaths were not caused directly by the then-unidentified influenza virus, but rather resulted from severe secondary pneumonia caused by various bacteria.

That is, due to dirty masks.

2. HCQ

David Boulware is a shill.

The science gents?

https://c19hcq.com/

C'mon David and Baggers, highlight the half arsed science?

And guess what, with an anti viral, yes, won't work if the storm has already hit. No one denies that.

The infamous UK 'Recovery trial?

It dosed the subjects 2400mg in the first 24 hours. That is a near lethal dosage.

Designed to fail.

3. Ivermectin

Unlike HCQ, Ivermectin appears to have some (very good) outcome in folk post hospitalisation.

Both drugs are cheap, readily available in large volume and have a remarkable safety profile over decades.

https://bird-group.org/health-professionals-resources/

and

https://c19ivermectin.com/

And there are numerous other EARLY treatments too.

Doctors have suggested more than half of the COVID attributed deaths could have been avoided with early treatment.

Love the Group think though folks.

Sadly, it's not me in denial.

Quote
As is my bent, I am fascinated by 'deniers' and the psychology of such folks and why they're drawn, somewhat compulsively, to such fringe and extremist views

Baggers, your condescension is an embarrassment.

I expected better from you.

But when one forms their views from the (largely) compromised MSM and the back of cereal packets, well.....


Finals, then 4 in a row!
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4196 –
That's the way to do it! New York City is introducing a requirement that anyone working at or seeking to enter restaurants or other indoor entertainment or gyms must show proof of vaccination. Everyone is happy. After all, anyone who is worried about chips being slipped into the vaccine don't have to take it and they don't have to mix any longer with those cyborgs who've been duped.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4197 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Oh, and Sweden?

So, yes, there are very clearly alternatives to lockdowns and mask mandates....

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countries-in-2020/?s=09

https://www.aier.org/article/sweden-despite-variants-no-lockdowns-no-daily-covid-deaths/
Sweden did some interesting things that left in on the brink of political chaos, when the news about it's failing strategy got bad, it stopped reporting COVID case figures, and tried to rewrite the rules about what is a COVID death to make the numbers look better. The Swedish public are furious, it looks like they will turf out the government.

The Swedish government's action has made it look like a totalitarian state, which is somewhat ironic for it to be offered up as a beacon of hope towards COVID freedom!

The second link is an outright fabrication, Sweden gets more than 1200 deaths per Million of population. So far they have had more than 14,000 die. That was just up until the point they stopped reporting, now open source estimates from NGOs are estimating the death rate has risen beyond 1600 per Million of population. Australia has about 36 deaths per Million. If we used Sweden's results to model a similar response in Australia, Australia would already have more than 38,000 COVID deaths, almost as much as all Australian deaths in the great wars!

In Sweden the bad numbers have been rising not falling! :o

Of course they will eventually get to a peak, via one way or the other, but at what cost.

It turns out that the Herd Immunity strategy is an economic disaster as well, they have a small highly skilled population that is being massively disrupted by the symptoms of Long COVID. So far it's economy has dropped -3.5%, not the -1.5% often reported which is actually a 2022 forecast from the Swedish Central bank, not a real number. Now the sceptics will say -3.5% is nothing, but that is relative to Sweden's EU neighbours which have faired much better after taking a more conventional approach, some have even experienced some 2021 growth! ;)

On COVID-19 cases relative to it's neighbours, countries like Denmark, Finland and Norway, it turns out Sweden is 500% worse off in most key infection and case rates.

Finally, the quarterly COVID-19 fatality rate for Sweden is 0.5% per case, worse than the world average of about 0.3% per case. This is despite Sweden being a well resourced technologically advanced country, it should be doing better than most not worse. So not only do they have more cases, they are below par at treating them!

No wonder the Swedish public is furious!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4198 –
"How dare you" !!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4199 –
Back in the real world, Covid's just doing what it does. Sydney reports 233 cases and unfortunately a man in his 20s just died. He reached day 13, telling nurses (he wasn't in hospital) that he was just a little fatigued. Then his condition deteriorated rapidly.