Carlton Supporters Club

I didn't think Betts was a Rookie, I thought he was from the PSD, but I digress...
I think that there will always be some players that come through late and play some games and everyone says "gee how was he missed".  Our games played per pick ratio would be a lot higher for 1st round picks than it would be for rookies or any other draft round, so I am not sure why we are comparing.

What is of a bigger concern to me is that we absolutely have a different structure at the club when we get the guys we get and they don't go on to achieve as much as at other clubs. Only a portion of that can be done to the quality of the footballer, the other element has to be the quality of the football club.
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Do the following ex-players all stand out as exceptional coaches we would have loved to get out hands on?
Stuart Dew
Leigh Tudor
John Blakey
Henry Playfair (development)
Stuart Maxfield (development)

I can see it right now, if at the same time Sydney signed any of these coaches we had instead signed them... There would have been talk about them being underwhelming signings, yet Sydney know what fits their mold and they go after it.

The following players are recycled players at Sydney
Rhyce Shaw (Twice runner-up B&F, premiership player)
Ted Richards (AA, B&F Runner up, premiership player)
Ben McGlynn (Top 10 B&F, should have been a premiership player, bar finals injury)
Martin Mattner (Premiership player)
Josh Kennedy (AA, B&F Winner, premiership player, top 10 in Brownlow out and out gun!!)
Mitch Morton (premiership player  )
Shane Mumford (Shortlist AA, premiership player)


Others to play in last years premiership

Player	Drafted
Sam Reid	38 National Draft
Luke Parker	40 National Draft
Adam Goodes	43 National Draft
Ryan O'Keefe	56 National Draft
Alex Johnson	57 National Draft
Craig Bird	58 National Draft
Nick Malceski	64 National Draft
Nick Smith	15 Rookie Draft
Heath Grundy	42 Rookie Draft
Kieran Jack	57 Rookie Draft
Mike Pyke	57 Rookie Draft

That is 17 of last years side traded for (usually for next to nothing) or taken in the round 3 or later of the draft. There has to be one side that is identifying those talents, but there has to be another side that develops them and that is where I think we are letting ourselves down. Sydney has also selected plenty of players that have not gone on to make it as well and overlooked players better than what they have taken, but I would not mind betting that they could have had a number of these players swapped out for others and the ones they took would have had better careers at Sydney. They have a development model and I would suggest they stick quite rigidly to it. The 'no d1ckheads' policy wasn't just a catchphrase it was fair dinkum.
Something at Carlton certainly has to change. We are a club that has not been a genuine 'force' since the 90s and I agree with Roos in saying that I doubt it comes down to recruiting as the key element.

So what is the club doing? It needs to probably scrap the whole 'we are Carlton f*ck the rest' policy, stop with the public statements and just go about getting all of the basics right, all the way through the club. I am sick of watching tripe week after week. Play the Sydney 'moneyball' approach with regards to trying to hit the right recycled players. Just about everyone that has traded to Sydney, they have gotten more out of that player than what they have paid for them.

I didn't think Betts was a Rookie, I thought he was from the PSD, but I digress...
I think that there will always be some players that come through late and play some games and everyone says "gee how was he missed".  Our games played per pick ratio would be a lot higher for 1st round picks than it would be for rookies or any other draft round, so I am not sure why we are comparing.

What is of a bigger concern to me is that we absolutely have a different structure at the club when we get the guys we get and they don't go on to achieve as much as at other clubs. Only a portion of that can be done to the quality of the footballer, the other element has to be the quality of the football club.
.
Do the following ex-players all stand out as exceptional coaches we would have loved to get out hands on?
Stuart Dew
Leigh Tudor
John Blakey
Henry Playfair (development)
Stuart Maxfield (development)

I can see it right now, if at the same time Sydney signed any of these coaches we had instead signed them... There would have been talk about them being underwhelming signings, yet Sydney know what fits their mold and they go after it.

The following players are recycled players at Sydney
Rhyce Shaw (Twice runner-up B&F, premiership player)
Ted Richards (AA, B&F Runner up, premiership player)
Ben McGlynn (Top 10 B&F, should have been a premiership player, bar finals injury)
Martin Mattner (Premiership player)
Josh Kennedy (AA, B&F Winner, premiership player, top 10 in Brownlow out and out gun!!)
Mitch Morton (premiership player  )
Shane Mumford (Shortlist AA, premiership player)


Others to play in last years premiership

Player	Drafted
Sam Reid	38 National Draft
Luke Parker	40 National Draft
Adam Goodes	43 National Draft
Ryan O'Keefe	56 National Draft
Alex Johnson	57 National Draft
Craig Bird	58 National Draft
Nick Malceski	64 National Draft
Nick Smith	15 Rookie Draft
Heath Grundy	42 Rookie Draft
Kieran Jack	57 Rookie Draft
Mike Pyke	57 Rookie Draft

That is 17 of last years side traded for (usually for next to nothing) or taken in the round 3 or later of the draft. There has to be one side that is identifying those talents, but there has to be another side that develops them and that is where I think we are letting ourselves down. Sydney has also selected plenty of players that have not gone on to make it as well and overlooked players better than what they have taken, but I would not mind betting that they could have had a number of these players swapped out for others and the ones they took would have had better careers at Sydney. They have a development model and I would suggest they stick quite rigidly to it. The 'no d1ckheads' policy wasn't just a catchphrase it was fair dinkum.
Something at Carlton certainly has to change. We are a club that has not been a genuine 'force' since the 90s and I agree with Roos in saying that I doubt it comes down to recruiting as the key element.

So what is the club doing? It needs to probably scrap the whole 'we are Carlton f*ck the rest' policy, stop with the public statements and just go about getting all of the basics right, all the way through the club. I am sick of watching tripe week after week. Play the Sydney 'moneyball' approach with regards to trying to hit the right recycled players. Just about everyone that has traded to Sydney, they have gotten more out of that player than what they have paid for them.

In fairness there are a few more (former) rookies with less games on our list....Casboult (13), Bell (11), Cachia (9), Okeefe (3), Dale (2). Having said that we only recently got rid of both Thornton (188) and Ohailpin (81) who were both rookies compared to Russell (116) who was a top 20 draft pick as well. So the pattern continues.[/size]

I just had an idea, its a bit bold, and many wont like it, but Im going to float it anyway.

In the event that we do trade away Hampson and Warnock, would anyone else think that Koschitzke would be of any value to us?

Would come for nothing at least.

Quote from: Thryleon – on July 16, 2013, 10:29:21 am

I just had an idea, its a bit bold, and many wont like it, but Im going to float it anyway.

In the event that we do trade away Hampson and Warnock, would anyone else think that Koschitzke would be of any value to us?

Would come for nothing at least.

Even if he did cost us nothing, my answer would still be NO.