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Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #120 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
It's Murphy's fault that Yarran can't chase. 

What's Murphy's excuse for not chasing and tackling?

2011 AFLCA Player of the year.   Has proved that he can play.  Voted by the Coaches.   Not sure they would give votes to a bloke that can't chase and tackle.

I agree he is out of form, but he has at least shown that he can do it.

Yarran on the other hand has 4 times the ability than Kieren Jack and yet is that fair behind him as a footballer it isn't funny.

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #121 –
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Quote from: Goat – on
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Got to stop blaming the coach.  In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day.   If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation...........

.....Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Malthouse is the "turn around" coach, "able to get the best out of players" "if he can't get the best out of under performing player no one can"  all statements I've heard from commentators and fans.  

You say Yarran is all those things above, hope you're not expecting anything but a 3rd round pick at best, because if Mick is so good at getting the best out players what hope does any other have  :-\  And if there is one then why didn't we chase him?

Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, even Jamo and Special K are what is wrong with Carlton - all 100 game + now ...... they are the guys who should be leading from the front, standing up when the game gets tight.......

3 number 1 draft picks.

You could throw 1AW in there too...... and McLean.

In general, ALL OF THEM fail to do that way when needed too often.

Are they being used incorrectly, are they just not hungry enough (or what)?

If those guys lead by example, younger guys like Yarran will most likely follow suit.

Yarran is an easy target.

The problem is much bigger than him.

ps Shakin, you would have no idea how fit Yarran is, he looks a heck of a lot fitter/agile/quicker than Gibbs or Murphy right now?

I call Bullcrap.  Young players with talent and character don't need anyone to show them the way.   They step up and do their role.  Chad Wingard has it inside him.   The drive.  The passion.  He wants it.  It hurts when he loses and he trains his arse off so it doesn't happen again.  He chases.  Tackles.   Do you think he looks at Boak and Hartlett for the way?   Does he point at Hartlett when he gets tagged out of games?  

.........   Everyone.

.....
Give me a spell and all players need to take the responsibility.
It amazes me how knowledgeable you are of players' state of mind and character.  Wingard is a very good player and will only get better under the right guidance.  He doesn't get the number one tag so doesn't need anything from Boak or Harlett.  Again a first year coach has got more out of a basket case club/team than our Mick has with a full list to chose from. 
Excuses year 1, blame year 2, contract extention year 3........

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #122 –
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
It's Murphy's fault that Yarran can't chase. 

What's Murphy's excuse for not chasing and tackling?

2011 AFLCA Player of the year.   Has proved that he can play.  Voted by the Coaches.   Not sure they would give votes to a bloke that can't chase and tackle.

I agree he is out of form, but he has at least shown that he can do it.

Yarran on the other hand has 4 times the ability than Kieren Jack and yet is that fair behind him as a footballer it isn't funny.

I reckon Murphy has a fair bit of untapped potential as well.

I counter your argument by saying Yarran too has shown he can do it (not to the extent of Murphy), under the right guidance, when played in the right position. He wasn't wearing tags off defensive forwards in the previous two seasons for no reason yeah?

The fact that Murph has been at the pinnacle, has chased and tackled and has won that award makes his form even more concerning than Yarran's IMO. If he's been there, and he's the captain, surely he needs to lead the way?

Anyway this isn't about Murphy, this about eliminating double standards and showing the same amount if respect to each and every player. ATM I can't see Yarran responding the way things are going and see him gone at season's end, probably for a lot less than he's worth. MM is the coahc it's up to him to get the best out of our players. He's failed dismally with yarran who let's be honest, was the future of our club.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #123 –
As stupid as this sounds, I think the issue is way bigger than any one player or way smaller than any one player (hear me out, I have logic behind this ridiculous statement!!).

We have had so very many players performing so far lower than what we expect from them that it could easily be argued that Mick has already lost the playing group as a whole... except for the fact that any time we see or hear a player interviewed they all seem extremely happy and speak glowingly about the improvements that we've made as a team in a variety of areas under Malthouse.

I can usually see 'spin' when it's right in front of me, and I don't think the players have been guilty of that. I honestly believe they feel that they have improved overall and are very happy with the direction of the team.

What we haven't really seen too much of this year are absolute standout performances by any one player and, in previous years, this was something we had become very much accustomed to seeing so the new 'absence' of these performances have seemed very alarming to many.

What we HAVE seen more of this season, however, is a far more even spread of performers with a much greater spread of statistics. We have been far more consistent across the park and haven't just been carried across the line by any one or two players like we used to be.

Remember the phrase 'No Judd, no Carlton'?

While it's still far too early to tell, I do believe we will be better off in the long run for having this greater variety of contributors as it makes us less predictable.

What I haven't particularly enjoyed is the lack of apparent fire and passion in the side that has been almost synonymous with the Carlton jumper for as long as I have been following footy. Maybe it's a product of all of the changes in line ups we've had this season, but I don't get the impression that the players on the field 'bleed Navy' like we've come to expect from our boys.

This has to change and I think will be a driving factor behind any list changes Malthouse and co make at the end of this season. Anyone not willing to tow the team line and put the jumper ahead of their own individual performance will be shown the door.

Yarran gets singled out because he is the most glaringly obvious case of this ailment and it is why many argue that trading him out now would be a win/win for both clubs involved.

His heart doesn't appear in it for whatever reason that may be, but every single club in the AFL realise how outstandingly talented he is, so the compensation offered if he was to be traded would certainly be a draft pick in the 5-8 range or a similar quality player who may be underperforming at their own club for whatever reason (or a combination of both adding up to this sort of value).

I don't think Yarran will be Johnny Lonesome when these sort of cuts are made to the list either, so expect some fireworks both on this forum and at the club itself as we get closer to trade week and the draft.

I'm expecting to see at least 3-4 new players join the club via Free Agency and probably around 5-6 live selections in the National Draft. At least 2 of those selections will likely be first rounders as we will almost certainly look to make at least one or two trades to improve draft position.

Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #124 –
Good post Nathbear but if Yazz wants out we don't have any bargaining power unfortunately, so getting 5-8 is dreaming of the good life. I'm thinking 25 and 36 or something of the like.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #125 –
Quote from: Goat – on
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Quote from: Goat – on
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Got to stop blaming the coach.  In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day.   If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation...........

.....Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Malthouse is the "turn around" coach, "able to get the best out of players" "if he can't get the best out of under performing player no one can"  all statements I've heard from commentators and fans.  

You say Yarran is all those things above, hope you're not expecting anything but a 3rd round pick at best, because if Mick is so good at getting the best out players what hope does any other have  :-\  And if there is one then why didn't we chase him?

Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, even Jamo and Special K are what is wrong with Carlton - all 100 game + now ...... they are the guys who should be leading from the front, standing up when the game gets tight.......

3 number 1 draft picks.

You could throw 1AW in there too...... and McLean.

In general, ALL OF THEM fail to do that way when needed too often.

Are they being used incorrectly, are they just not hungry enough (or what)?

If those guys lead by example, younger guys like Yarran will most likely follow suit.

Yarran is an easy target.

The problem is much bigger than him.

ps Shakin, you would have no idea how fit Yarran is, he looks a heck of a lot fitter/agile/quicker than Gibbs or Murphy right now?

I call Bullcrap.  Young players with talent and character don't need anyone to show them the way.   They step up and do their role.  Chad Wingard has it inside him.   The drive.  The passion.  He wants it.  It hurts when he loses and he trains his arse off so it doesn't happen again.  He chases.  Tackles.   Do you think he looks at Boak and Hartlett for the way?   Does he point at Hartlett when he gets tagged out of games?  

.........   Everyone.

.....
Give me a spell and all players need to take the responsibility.
It amazes me how knowledgeable you are of players' state of mind and character.  Wingard is a very good player and will only get better under the right guidance.  He doesn't get the number one tag so doesn't need anything from Boak or Harlett.  Again a first year coach has got more out of a basket case club/team than our Mick has with a full list to chose from.

Thank you.   Wingard is a quality individual.   I just don't think he would respond to getting the subs vest the way Yarran did.   I actually can't think of many that would.

Goat.    How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #126 –
No need, they never would've made him sub in the first place! :P Stupid move that backfired and I'm sure if MM could have his time again he'd take it back ( not that the stubborn old fool would admit to it), not for the sake of Yazz's attitude but to get the 4 points off the Scum. They must've jumped for joy when they saw Yazz as sub for that game. If I was Tird I would've been wearing the cheshire cat grin.

BTW I could be wrong but I think the 'knowledgable' comment was sarcasm (though I could be wrong). :P
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #127 –
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Quote from: Goat – on
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Quote from: Goat – on
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Got to stop blaming the coach.  In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day.   If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation...........

.....Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Malthouse is the "turn around" coach, "able to get the best out of players" "if he can't get the best out of under performing player no one can"  all statements I've heard from commentators and fans.  

You say Yarran is all those things above, hope you're not expecting anything but a 3rd round pick at best, because if Mick is so good at getting the best out players what hope does any other have  :-\  And if there is one then why didn't we chase him?

Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, even Jamo and Special K are what is wrong with Carlton - all 100 game + now ...... they are the guys who should be leading from the front, standing up when the game gets tight.......

3 number 1 draft picks.

You could throw 1AW in there too...... and McLean.

In general, ALL OF THEM fail to do that way when needed too often.

Are they being used incorrectly, are they just not hungry enough (or what)?

If those guys lead by example, younger guys like Yarran will most likely follow suit.

Yarran is an easy target.

The problem is much bigger than him.

ps Shakin, you would have no idea how fit Yarran is, he looks a heck of a lot fitter/agile/quicker than Gibbs or Murphy right now?

I call Bullcrap.  Young players with talent and character don't need anyone to show them the way.   They step up and do their role.  Chad Wingard has it inside him.   The drive.  The passion.  He wants it.  It hurts when he loses and he trains his arse off so it doesn't happen again.  He chases.  Tackles.   Do you think he looks at Boak and Hartlett for the way?   Does he point at Hartlett when he gets tagged out of games?  

.........   Everyone.

.....
Give me a spell and all players need to take the responsibility.
It amazes me how knowledgeable you are of players' state of mind and character.  Wingard is a very good player and will only get better under the right guidance.  He doesn't get the number one tag so doesn't need anything from Boak or Harlett.  Again a first year coach has got more out of a basket case club/team than our Mick has with a full list to chose from.

Thank you.   Wingard is a quality individual.   I just don't think he would respond to getting the subs vest the way Yarran did.   I actually can't think of many that would.

Goat.    How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick.  Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.
Excuses year 1, blame year 2, contract extention year 3........

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #128 –
Interesting that Yarran had 15 touches, 7 tackles and 3 goals the week prior to being made sub.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #129 –
Quote from: Brettie – on
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Nah, he's gone backwards. Who's at fault is debatable but he is just plain awful ATM, a shadow of the player we've been used to seeing over the previous 2 years. Think about it. no one would've entertained trading Yarran over the past two years but now everyone is happy to fk him off. He's gone backwards no doubt about it.

So why has he gone backwards?  Is it injury?  Is it lack of game time or opportunity?   What's changed in 6 months?

The only things I reckon that has happened is he is playing a different role and he has had the acid put on him by Malthouse.

To the first part.   Playing half forward flank doesn't seem to worry Christensen, Motlop, Thomas and Wingard.  So he should be able to have an impact.  

To the second part.  Mick dropped him and applied the acid.    There is a old saying that you really don't know someone until you have pinched them and you see how they respond.  Remember the Essendon game against West Coast when Hird gave Sheedy the big "screw you" with a raised fist to the coaching box after he kicked a goal.   Clearly Sheedy told him something he didn't like, but he went out to prove him wrong rather than drop the lip.

I guess I hoped Yarran would do like Hird did, but at the moment it looks like he has responded like my 4 year old son.   I just don't think it ever going to happen with Yarran and in ten years time he might have a goal of the year to his name when he should have countless more important honors and it will be everyone else fault that he didn't make it.

He has shown a real lack of character for mine and I hope I am wrong because I love the player he could be.

If it's to be it's up to me.

Great post Shakin....top shelf.

Terrific post Shakin.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #131 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
No need, they never would've made him sub in the first place! :P Stupid move that backfired and I'm sure if MM could have his time again he'd take it back ( not that the stubborn old fool would admit to it), not for the sake of Yazz's attitude but to get the 4 points off the Scum. They must've jumped for joy when they saw Yazz as sub for that game. If I was Tird I would've been wearing the cheshire cat grin.

BTW I could be wrong but I think the 'knowledgable' comment was sarcasm (though I could be wrong). :P
It may have been the wrong move, however the response from a professional footballer was disgraceful.   Game all square and in the balance.   On comes our biggest impact player and ????  Oh Dear.   What's the matter Yaz?   Mick make you the sub?   Gee that's tough.   You could come out and show the old prick he was wrong or you could drop the lip and sit in the corner.   

Lewis Jetta was the sub in round 5.  Jack Gunston for the Hawks   Mathew Stokes in Round 2.   Hasn't looked back.  Allen Christensen Round 10.  Mitch Duncan Round 11.  Brock McLean.   How did these blokes manage to survive.

I gathered it was sarcasm from Goat, but as it was the closet he has got to a relevant point I thought it would be best to acknowledge it.
 

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #132 –
Quote from: Goat – on
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick.  Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.

You missed it.   I will give you another chance.

Goat.    How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #133 –
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
No need, they never would've made him sub in the first place! :P Stupid move that backfired and I'm sure if MM could have his time again he'd take it back ( not that the stubborn old fool would admit to it), not for the sake of Yazz's attitude but to get the 4 points off the Scum. They must've jumped for joy when they saw Yazz as sub for that game. If I was Tird I would've been wearing the cheshire cat grin.

BTW I could be wrong but I think the 'knowledgable' comment was sarcasm (though I could be wrong). :P
It may have been the wrong move, however the response from a professional footballer was disgraceful.   Game all square and in the balance.   On comes our biggest impact player and ????  Oh Dear.   What's the matter Yaz?   Mick make you the sub?   Gee that's tough.   You could come out and show the old prick he was wrong or you could drop the lip and sit in the corner.   

Lewis Jetta was the sub in round 5.  Jack Gunston for the Hawks   Mathew Stokes in Round 2.   Hasn't looked back.  Allen Christensen Round 10.  Mitch Duncan Round 11.  Brock McLean.   How did these blokes manage to survive.

I gathered it was sarcasm from Goat, but as it was the closet he has got to a relevant point I thought it would be best to acknowledge it.

Yeah I agree, for sure. But if said subs didn't perform, pretty sure their respective coaches weren't pointing the finger at them the following monday. I get your point, do you get mine?
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Chris Yarran has gone backwards.

Reply #134 –
With Yarran and the rest of them Im confident MM just needs another preseason to change things.  These blokes are used to getting away with what they wanted when Ratts was here, they were used to being told what they wanted to hear and not what they needed to hear.  It’s the coaches decision where they play and not the players.

Im confident we will have 2-4 new assistant coaches coming in plus a new fitness coach.  The place is going to change dramatically for the better and im hoping this is the formula that changes the dynamic of the group.  Also hopefully we get lucky come trade time with free agency and the offloading of players.