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Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #60 –
Quote from: LP – on
Thomas ahead of those blokes is completely unrealistic, it reeks of nepotism!

Reeks is not a strong enough word. It's a pisstake of epic proportions.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #62 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Quote from: LP – on
Thomas ahead of those blokes is completely unrealistic, it reeks of nepotism!

Reeks is not a strong enough word. It's a pisstake of epic proportions.

It's little things like this that set the alarm bells ringing for me, the removal of Cordy and the appointment of Buttifant, the recruitment of Thomas and playing him clearly unfit, the pre-season trip debacles, the blind faith in altitude training, the failure to stand by certain players and now Thomas getting 10th spot in the B&F.

These do not come across to me as rational cold professional decisions, they have some subjectivity and that makes me doubt things.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #63 –
Meh, I dunno, keep in mind that Daisy played almost every game for the season and you're comparing him to guys who missed big chunks.

Sure, we recruited him to be a top 3 finish player and he didn't do that, but I'd imagine 10th to be a fairly accurate reflection of his season. He was certainly playing much better footy towards the end of the year as his fitness levels got back to where they should be. He was realistically playing the sort of footy we recruited him for.

If he can build on that and be every bit the player we recruited him to be next year, then we're going to be in for a big season. Gibbs, Murphy and Thomas has the potential to be an outstanding three way punch.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #64 –
Quote from: nathbear – on
If he can build on that and be every bit the player we recruited him to be next year, then we're going to be in for a big season. Gibbs, Murphy and Thomas has the potential to be an outstanding three way punch.

I agree, I'm not talking down his future just discussing his past and I think 10th is a bit over-rated, or perhaps others under-rated!

Perhaps they have done this because that is what Daisy needs, but surely others need some recognition too?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #65 –
Congratulations Bryce, well deserved!

I was a very lukewarm about Gibbs for a long time but I think he has finally emerged this year as the star we were hoping for when he was drafted.
Reality always wins in the end.
 

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #66 –
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #69 –
Did our scoring system change as these are very low votes.

Our top 3 have had a pretty consistently result over a number of years now. Congrats to them all. Hope Simmo continues his form into the future. Like Scotland, really deserves a gong at some point.

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #70 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Did our scoring system change as these are very low votes.

Our top 3 have had a pretty consistently result over a number of years now. Congrats to them all. Hope Simmo continues his form into the future. Like Scotland, really deserves a gong at some point.

Like last year??? :P
"We are a club in a hurry"

#united #reset

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #71 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: nathbear – on
If he can build on that and be every bit the player we recruited him to be next year, then we're going to be in for a big season. Gibbs, Murphy and Thomas has the potential to be an outstanding three way punch.

I agree, I'm not talking down his future just discussing his past and I think 10th is a bit over-rated, or perhaps others under-rated!

Perhaps they have done this because that is what Daisy needs, but surely others need some recognition too?

B&F voting doesn't really work like that. It's across every game of the season and is a cumulative thing rather than just a group of people sitting down at the end of the season and deciding who the top 10 players were for the year. Mick isn't the only person that votes either, I'm not sure what system we use at the club but at every footy club I ever played for we had multiple people putting their votes in each week and the cumulative totals decide the awards.

I'd agree with you wholeheartedly if we'd given him some arbitrary award for something, but the B&F isn't arbitrary. It's based on game by game votes and Daisy played enough quality games to warrant a top 10. Finishing 10th is actually a poor return for a player as good as he is, in my opinion. I doubt very much that he'd be happy with it himself and I'm certainly not happy with it. We're paying him $700,000 a season, which is just something you don't do for the 10th best player on your list across any given season.

He needs to finish in the top 3 next season to justify his dollars and only time will tell if he can do that. As I said, if the end of the season performances he put up were an indication of what he'll deliver consistently next season, then I can't see anyone complaining too much about anything.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #72 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
B+F's are generally a guide to who performed their role to the best of their ability according to the expectation of the Match Committee along with being an influential player.

That can mean sacrificing output for the good of the team from time to time.

This may also serve to send a message to the group regarding ways to influence a result without being a dominant player.

By the same token, if blokes perform you shouldn't be disrespecting their efforts just to pump up some other player.

I doubt many supporters would rate the Dale Thomas 2014 season better than Curnow's. I'd barely have Thomas ahead of Waite or Robinson despite the number of games they lost to injury and or suspension, and there is no way Thomas deserves more respect or has had any more impact on 2014 than Henderson or Casboult for the 2014!

Thomas ahead of those blokes is completely unrealistic, it reeks of nepotism!

What if a bloke is dominant but doesnt follow instruction?

Some players might have been flash in the pan and done his role really well one week, and then not played his role, but the role of someone else, and still has a positive impact on the scoreboard, but hurt the team for it.

We see a bloke that kicked 3 goals fail to get B+F votes, but the MC sees a bloke not playing to instruction and being perhaps selfish and ending up with no votes in the B+F even though their output went some way to winning games.

At the end of the day, there would be a reason for this "inconsistency" that we couldnt fully appreciate without knowing the ins and outs of every persons role on the team and how they can positively effect team performance whilst not really hitting the stat sheet well.

@the end of the day, people will never agree with most of it, but I think we can be satisfied with the top 6, and usually thats where the majority of the votes go and the blokes under this are probably inconsistent at best.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #73 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
10. Thomas
9. Docherty
7. Everitt
7. Judd
6 Jamison
5. Rowe
4. Yarran
3. Simpson
2. Murphy
1. Gibbs

All 3 traded/free agency players made the top 10, Everritt, Daisy and Docherty.

That's a credit to everyone involved in getting them across and the boys for settling in and contributing in their 1st year.

Well done everyone !!

A big congrats to Gibbs for winning, well deserved.

The top 3 are all leaders and it's good the see them leading the way with their on field performances.
Mens sana in corpore sano - A healthy mind in a healthy body.

Navy, it's not just a color, it's an attitude !!!

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #74 –
Quote from: nathbear – on
Finishing 10th is actually a poor return for a player as good as he is, in my opinion. I doubt very much that he'd be happy with it himself and I'm certainly not happy with it. We're paying him $700,000 a season, which is just something you don't do for the 10th best player on your list across any given season.

He needs to finish in the top 3 next season to justify his dollars and only time will tell if he can do that. As I said, if the end of the season performances he put up were an indication of what he'll deliver consistently next season, then I can't see anyone complaining too much about anything.

See I disagree there, his end of year performances showed improvement for sure but 700k players are game breakers, Daisy was accumulating cheap stats across half back which inflated his numbers. He needs to be doing a shightload more than that IMHO.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!