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Topic: Worst Leaders in the AFL! (Read 194588 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #75 –
Murphy showed signs late last year that he was up to it. I reckon he'll rebound but he needs to make that a one off occurrence.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #76 –
Duigan was the best leader but he was a fringe player.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #77 –
Quote from: crashlander – on
I know it is common for clubs to play champs when they are not right: the Weagles and Judd is a perfect example. However, it does not make the champ any better. WC just about ruined Judd and probably took 2 years off his career. It was a bad choice and they suffered for it on the field. I do not not want to go down that path. It is STUPID! If Murphy is going to last, he has to be managed better than Judd was.

We went down that path, we turned a Roll Royce(Judd) into a battering ram to cover for the spud extras that surround him.

Murphy is / was an elite outside player who could finish, look at the weekend and see what has happened to his kicking and power. It's a travesty!

Put the spuds on the inside and teach them to power handball!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #78 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Murphy showed signs late last year that he was up to it. I reckon he'll rebound but he needs to make that a one off occurrence.
We can hope.
The problem I see is not whether Murphy is up to the job, but whether he is the right man for it in the first place.
Since he has been Captain he has struggled with form and injury. It is hard to show his best in those circumstances and it has left him open to criticism for not doing the things we think a leader should show.
There probably would be questions over Murphy even if he were not the Captain: his lack of fitness and relative lack of effort are not the things we see when he is at his best.
So, should we put the pressure on him to do the job, when he is forcing himself to be there when he shouldn't be?
Probably not.
If we are to get the best out of Murphy, it might well be better for him to be relieved of the Captaincy and allowed to develop into an on field leader as his body allows him to. There is no doubt at all that he played better before he was Captain. There is also no doubt that, if we were silly enough to play him at well less than 100 %, that he would continue to be a liability as a leader.
Give him time and some protection, he could develop into the real on field leader we need.

Judd wasn't a bad Captain, but it was something he was not comfortable being. Now he is no longer the Captain he is no less the on field leader he was. Look at his last term on Thrusday Night against Richmond. We needed something and Juddy delivered. With some help.... But that is another tale.

Of the potential candidates to replace Murphy as Captain, the 2 that stand out are Carrazzo and Simpson. Neither is a candidate for our best player, but they really do deliver, especially when they have had the responsibility in the past. The problem is that neither is close to the beginning of their careers. Carrazzo, in particular, has struggled with injury in recent times. His form, at the moment, looks good.

After that things look less certain. Gibbs is a chance. he has lifted his game significantly, even though he was not at his best against Richmond. He is becoming the on field leader we were looking for. But is he yet? I am not so sure. I'd like to see how he responds, especially as he gets match fit again.

Kreuzer or Thomas? Neither can get on the park, let alone show the aggression we require.

Rowe or Jamison? They both deserve to be in the leadership group, but neither is playing close to their best and neither is young.

Yarran? Definitely not. He is an important player for us, but he does not show the physicality that we would prefer.

I could continue, but the point is quite clear. We really don't have a huge number of on field leaders. We really need to import some as a major priority. Of those we have, I think Simmo would probably be the best fit as Captain for the near future. Gibbs could be if he can keep us the hardness and drive he showed last year.
We have been spoilt in our leadership quality over the years, but we just don't have a Jesaulenko, a Nicholls, a Fitzpatrick or a Kernahan at the moment. This is the sort of leadership we need. Murphy may someday have it, but he is not there at the moment.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #79 –
Murphy is the wrong type to be a captain. 

Have a think about our best captains.

None of them were silky outside small ball winners.  All of them were immovable objects with nous, hardness and took no prisoners.

Murphy is more Camporeale than Rats.  Nothing wrong with that, but its just not captain material.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #80 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Murphy is the wrong type to be a captain. 

Have a think about our best captains.

None of them were silky outside small ball winners.  All of them were immovable objects with nous, hardness and took no prisoners.

Murphy is more Camporeale than Rats.  Nothing wrong with that, but its just not captain material.

agree 100%.. when he got poleaxed by Hodge....that was it for me
 

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #81 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Murphy is the wrong type to be a captain. 

Have a think about our best captains.

None of them were silky outside small ball winners.  All of them were immovable objects with nous, hardness and took no prisoners.

Murphy is more Camporeale than Rats.  Nothing wrong with that, but its just not captain material.

Totally agree - you need a fearless warrior type who is also smart as captain, one who can lead and inspire in the heat of battle. Murph is not and never will be that type. Don't really think Juddy is either btw - both Murph and Judd are more the quiet types who are more focused on their own performances.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #82 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Totally agree - you need a fearless warrior type who is also smart as captain, one who can lead and inspire in the heat of battle. Murph is not and never will be that type. Don't really think Juddy is either btw - both Murph and Judd are more the quiet types who are more focused on their own performances.

what you are effectively saying cookie is we want a Dominator...

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #83 –
Quote from: MosquitoFleet – on
what you are effectively saying cookie is we want a Dominator...

There was a bloke who turned and won games from his own heroic deeds that inspired others! Ah, happy days. A Luke Hodge type would do though!  ;)

Actually, if you've read Bernard Cornwell's "Warrior Chronicles", Uhtred of Bebanburgh would fit the bill.  :)  8)
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #84 –
Well, there's a lot of rubbish in this thread   ::)

The club's leaders have to both play their designated role and help to ensure that their team mates play theirs.  If one of the leaders has a bad game, for whatever reason, it doesn't mean that they are not leading.

Murphy, Gibbs and Jamison, and the unofficial leaders, have the respect of the players and the players do their utmost to meet their leaders' demands.  Unfortunately, the talent and skill is not quite there and the coaching holds us back.

Murphy, as a smaller, skillful player, is always going to be questioned as captain; he's not Big Nick.  However, that does not mean that he can't control the playing group and get the best out of them.

It was interesting listening to Brad Sewell's comments about the game.  Hawthorn had a much more mature and experienced line up and the players were given the freedom to respond to on field developments - a bit like our 1995 side.  Our blokes don't seem to be entrusted with on field decision making.  If the leaders were given more freedom to exercise leadership, I suspect we'd be more competitive.




It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #85 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Well, there's a lot of rubbish in this thread   ::)

The club's leaders have to both play their designated role and help to ensure that their team mates play theirs.  If one of the leaders has a bad game, for whatever reason, it doesn't mean that they are not leading.

Murphy, Gibbs and Jamison, and the unofficial leaders, have the respect of the players and the players do their utmost to meet their leaders' demands. Unfortunately, the talent and skill is not quite there and the coaching holds us back.

Murphy, as a smaller, skillful player, is always going to be questioned as captain; he's not Big Nick.  However, that does not mean that he can't control the playing group and get the best out of them.

It was interesting listening to Brad Sewell's comments about the game.  Hawthorn had a much more mature and experienced line up and the players were given the freedom to respond to on field developments - a bit like our 1995 side.  Our blokes don't seem to be entrusted with on field decision making.  If the leaders were given more freedom to exercise leadership, I suspect we'd be more competitive.

Are you sure about this DJC? Do you have inside knowledge?
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #86 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Well, there's a lot of rubbish in this thread   ::)

The club's leaders have to both play their designated role and help to ensure that their team mates play theirs.  If one of the leaders has a bad game, for whatever reason, it doesn't mean that they are not leading.

Murphy, Gibbs and Jamison, and the unofficial leaders, have the respect of the players and the players do their utmost to meet their leaders' demands.  Unfortunately, the talent and skill is not quite there and the coaching holds us back.

Murphy, as a smaller, skillful player, is always going to be questioned as captain; he's not Big Nick.  However, that does not mean that he can't control the playing group and get the best out of them.

It was interesting listening to Brad Sewell's comments about the game.  Hawthorn had a much more mature and experienced line up and the players were given the freedom to respond to on field developments - a bit like our 1995 side.  Our blokes don't seem to be entrusted with on field decision making.  If the leaders were given more freedom to exercise leadership, I suspect we'd be more competitive.

Who cares if those 3 'leaders' simply don't turn up on any given night?!

What does tHAT SAY TO THE PACK THAT RESPECT THEM BLAH BLAH.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #87 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Are you sure about this DJC? Do you have inside knowledge?

If I'm wrong about this the club is in more trouble than I thought.

I'm only going on the comments by the leadership group and other players.  That suggests that Murphy, Gibbs and Jamison are very well respected, as are Judd, Simpson and Carrazzo.  Rowe and Thomas are up there too.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #88 –
Quote from: DJC – on
If I'm wrong about this the club is in more trouble than I thought.

I'm only going on the comments by the leadership group and other players.  That suggests that Murphy, Gibbs and Jamison are very well respected, as are Judd, Simpson and Carrazzo.  Rowe and Thomas are up there too.

Ah! OK.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Worst Leaders in the AFL!

Reply #89 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Murphy, Gibbs and Jamison, and the unofficial leaders, have the respect of the players and the players do their utmost to meet their leaders' demands.  Unfortunately, the talent and skill is not quite there and the coaching holds us back.

Every now and again the foot soldiers will stand up for their captain and other leaders but they'd do that under Ratten when they felt like it too. There still isn't that tight everyone look after each other group we so desperately need.