Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #90 – April 08, 2015, 09:48:32 pm Quote from: Mantis – on April 08, 2015, 09:24:38 pmMaybe DJC thinks the work rate cannot be sustained by our clubs, because our players are weak and lazy. How many more players do we need to replace before things start to improve. If we don't beat west Coast, we are really heading for trouble. The scum in week three will more than likely be a loss. We can't be 0-3. No way at all or our season is seriously heading the wrong direction. The players need to have a good look at themselves before round 2.No, I don't think that at all. Read LP's excellent analysis of our game plan which states in part:Quote from: LP – on April 07, 2015, 10:05:36 amI think the problem with the plan is that it ignores fatigue caused by other aspects of play, mental fatigue, stress, collisions and frustration. Your legs might be fine but that doesn't mean you aren't physically and mentally shattered. It's not a natural way to play football, it is more like a rugby scrum, wrestle or tug-of-war!Our players look weak and lazy because the way the coach wants them to play doesn't work. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #91 – April 08, 2015, 09:57:43 pm DJC, what exact game plan can our team employ that won't let them experience huge fatigue due to work rate, have players colliding into others, and have frustrations when things don't always work the way you would like it. How about our boys drink a can of suck it up princess, and grow a pair. We don't have a work rate that the players use for 4 quarters. we don't have a work rate that is used for 3 quarters or even 2 quarters. How we even mange to lose by less the 10 goals is beyond my understanding.I'm not sure what our game plan is, but it appears to be one of go for a victory, but only use your efforts for around 25 mins of the entire game. Maybe 50 mins on a really good day. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #92 – April 08, 2015, 10:42:19 pm Quote from: DJC – on April 08, 2015, 09:48:32 pmNo, I don't think that at all. Read LP's excellent analysis of our game plan which states in part:Our players look weak and lazy because the way the coach wants them to play doesn't work.LP has formed an opinion. Thats fine, but even in last week's case it fails to take into account the fact that once again we used a sub less than five minutes into the first quarter. We had at least one other player in duress (Jaksch).We played fairly poorly yet didn't get obliterated. We could have finished the game off by quarter time had we taken our opportunities better. Our gameplan is not the cause of our lack of run. Nor is it a lack of workrate. Even the best players need consistency in their preparation to show their best versiom of them themselves. Juddy has struggled since Oscar was born. G. Ablett looked out of touch on the weekend probably due to his shoulder woes.Most of our mob have had some sort of setback over their careers. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #93 – April 08, 2015, 11:02:02 pm Quote from: DJC – on April 08, 2015, 09:48:32 pmNo, I don't think that at all. Read LP's excellent analysis of our game plan which states in part:Our players look weak and lazy because the way the coach wants them to play doesn't work.Some of our players are weak and lazy.....but we make a lot of errors especially when we tire and for some reason we seem to looked tired earlierthan a lot of teams. We have tried various fitness guru's but never seem to be leaders or pace setters in the fitness area.Our tackling still infuriates me...half arsed at times, bumping instead of tackling, one arm thrown out instead of two, players just walking through our blokes like they dont exist....The teams that do jump from bottom, midpack into the eight all seem to have that extra edge in fitness from the previous year....Port got superfit and went straight from bottom to top 8/4....Crows this season look extra fit with Phil Walsh driving them hard, even the Demons are reported to be a lot fitter and it showed...the Suns look like they were in holiday mode and lookedlike a few players were well underdone including Ablett and played accordingly..We need to get fitter or get players who are fitter and this has to be a base requirement IMO...train them to run harder than anyone else, tackle harder and I reckon the skill errorswill also decrease with extra fitness... Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #94 – April 08, 2015, 11:14:24 pm Quote from: Mantis – on April 08, 2015, 09:57:43 pmDJC, what exact game plan can our team employ that won't let them experience huge fatigue due to work rate, have players colliding into others, and have frustrations when things don't always work the way you would like it. How about our boys drink a can of suck it up princess, and grow a pair. We don't have a work rate that the players use for 4 quarters. we don't have a work rate that is used for 3 quarters or even 2 quarters. How we even mange to lose by less the 10 goals is beyond my understanding.I'm not sure what our game plan is, but it appears to be one of go for a victory, but only use your efforts for around 25 mins of the entire game. Maybe 50 mins on a really good day.The main flaw with our game plan is that it requires players to do a lot of running for little or no return. It is a low possession game style so, for most of the game, we are trying to defend and that burns up energy. The better teams defend through attacking, avoid sending the ball to contests, and use handball to create opportunities to move the ball so that there is a low risk of turnovers. They have defensive structures that limit the opposition's options and negate their strengths. The best teams ensure that every player knows every other player's role and can fill in when necessary. When you watch Hawthorn or Geelong, you must notice how often they have a string of three or four handpasses to get the ball to a player in the clear. Even Richmond used handball to free players up. Our players are schooled to minimise handpassing and to get their kick away as soon as possible. That usually results in a contest or a stoppage, rarely an uncontested possession.Any competent coach would have our blokes playing more efficient football that creates less fatigue and enables higher work rates. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #95 – April 08, 2015, 11:27:18 pm Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on April 08, 2015, 11:02:02 pmSome of our players are weak and lazy.....but we make a lot of errors especially when we tire and for some reason we seem to looked tired earlierthan a lot of teams. We have tried various fitness guru's but never seem to be leaders or pace setters in the fitness area.Our tackling still infuriates me...half arsed at times, bumping instead of tackling, one arm thrown out instead of two, players just walking through our blokes like they dont exist....The teams that do jump from bottom, midpack into the eight all seem to have that extra edge in fitness from the previous year....Port got superfit and went straight from bottom to top 8/4....Crows this season look extra fit with Phil Walsh driving them hard, even the Demons are reported to be a lot fitter and it showed...the Suns look like they were in holiday mode and lookedlike a few players were well underdone including Ablett and played accordingly..We need to get fitter or get players who are fitter and this has to be a base requirement IMO...train them to run harder than anyone else, tackle harder and I reckon the skill errorswill also decrease with extra fitness...I agree with some of that EB but I still believe that our game plan contributes to unnecessary fatigue.Collingwood gleefully announced that their players had never been fitter after their first pre-season without Buttifant. While that could just have been point scoring, we do seem to be a bit behind other teams. Perhaps we are aiming to peak in September.Do we have a tackling coach? I don't think we do. We have had a tradition of utilizing rugby players as tackling coaches (my PE teacher Paddy McGoldrick was tackling coach in the 1960s) and we worked with Melbourne Storm when they trained at Princes Park. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #96 – April 08, 2015, 11:34:57 pm Quote from: DJC – on April 08, 2015, 08:46:45 pmThe game plan requires a work rate that cannot be sustained.The Hawks, Swans, Cats, Power, Freo players say hi. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #97 – April 08, 2015, 11:47:41 pm Quote from: Gointocarlton – on April 08, 2015, 11:34:57 pmThe Hawks, Swans, Cats, Power, Freo players say "We're glad our coach has a game plan that doesn't burn energy for no return."Edited for accuracy Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #98 – April 09, 2015, 12:37:29 am Quote from: DJC – on April 08, 2015, 11:14:24 pmWhen you watch Hawthorn or Geelong, you must notice how often they have a string of three or four handpasses to get the ball to a player in the clear. Even Richmond used handball to free players up. Our players are schooled to minimise handpassing and to get their kick away as soon as possible. That usually results in a contest or a stoppage, rarely an uncontested possession.Any competent coach would have our blokes playing more efficient football that creates less fatigue and enables higher work rates.Sorry, but this part of your analysis I disagree with completely. The main reason other teams are able to string together posessions is that they work hard. Just watch our guys in the first quarter on the weekend and see how hard they run in attack. running past the player who has taken a mark, running into space, running to create an open target. It's exactly the way the better teams play. You cannot create uncontested posession unless you work hard off the ball. Similarly, if in defence you don't work hard off the ball, then your opponent gets a free posession. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #99 – April 09, 2015, 06:28:06 am I don't think it's a work rate thing I think it's a confidence thing. For whatever reason our boys are rooted to the spot, perhaps afraid to break team rules or make an error? Our best players used to love to burst forward of the ball, that is but a remnant of a bygone era for us. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #100 – April 09, 2015, 06:45:48 am I could see that if it were a problem all of the time, but it's not. Take a look at the first quarter and in the second quarter before Richmond's run starts. They were running and working all over the park. Blokes were lining up to run past the bloke with the ball. This is a familiar sight over many years. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #101 – April 09, 2015, 06:53:10 am Tutt, Ellard, Armfield and Casboult all on the plane to Perth in a squad of 24. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #102 – April 09, 2015, 07:09:27 am Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on April 09, 2015, 06:28:06 amI don't think it's a work rate thing I think it's a confidence thing. For whatever reason our boys are rooted to the spot, perhaps afraid to break team rules or make an error? Our best players used to love to burst forward of the ball, that is but a remnant of a bygone era for us.It is work rate thing, the top sides run harder and further than us. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #103 – April 09, 2015, 07:13:36 am Quote from: deags – on April 09, 2015, 06:45:48 amI could see that if it were a problem all of the time, but it's not. Take a look at the first quarter and in the second quarter before Richmond's run starts. They were running and working all over the park. Blokes were lining up to run past the bloke with the ball. This is a familiar sight over many years.Yep take a look at the first quarter and second quarter it's a perfect example. Richmond come at us and, just like the last few years, we go into our shell and concede multiple goals. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 2 West Coast vs Carlton Reply #104 – April 09, 2015, 07:53:51 am I agree that our boys melt whenever challenged. That was evident under Ratten and still continues to this day under Malthouse. However I see the workrate thing as a separate issue. And both I think are related more to on-field leadership than off. Quote Selected