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Topic: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications (Read 80853 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #75 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Only our team has taggers instead of defenders though...apparantly.

...and our tagger get more of the ball than most of our midfielders.
....and they kick goals as well.
....and are not actually taggers at all!

Just not as many as opposition ball winners!

We have too many taggers and a game plan that is obsolete and too defensive, there is nothing further needed as evidence as it's there on video, at the ground and in the specialist commentary!

You can listen to the likes of Carey, Lyon(x2) and Roos, who primarily defend MM to get it right but not necessarily defend the game plan. In fact I have supported MM as a potential Director of Coaching, but not as match day coach if he cannot change his ways. When it comes to the game plan I chose to listen to Dunstall, Matthews, Fevola and Parkin who all have gently hinted that time has past it by!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #76 –
Sooo, does this mean under Ratten we were too attacking and now under MM we are too defensive?
Can't we just play bl**dy football.
Boys today... see ball get ball... let the boys play.

Under MM they seem in two minds as to what to do with the ball, hence making the wrong decision a fair bit of the time. I can't remember a time when we have kicked it straight to an opposition player. Not just an over kick or a kick just wide of our player but primary school stuff of passing straight to them. Jeez if we hit up our forwards as well as we lace out oppo players they would be talking up or kicking skills. ::)

Why can't we have two or three stay at home forwards ALL THE TIME  :o
2025... Moir of the same to come

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #77 –
Quote from: BluePhantom – on
I can't remember a time when we have kicked it straight to an opposition player.

That says more about your memory than any game plan issues.

One of the best 1-liners i can remember was said by Brettie in an in-game thread when we played the Bulldogs sometime during the Ratten era.

Something along the lines of...
"As far as i can tell, our gameplan is to kick it directly to Brian Lake and hope his jumper changes colour"

It's been happening for longer than anyone cares to remember. You're a lucky one because you've been able to forget!

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #78 –
Our foot skills have been severely lacking for more than a decade now.  Even those players who are very capable by foot are making too many turnovers. I speak of Gibbs, Murphy, Judd and Thomas. Then we have the butchers, Bell, Tuohy, Curnow and Walker. In between these two groups is a collective of uninspiring users of the footy. The only blokes I'd let off at this stage are the Ciarans (who have both shown a bit), Docherty and Simmo.

It's a far cry from the 95 team when there were few players you couldn't trust with the ball in hand. (apologies to Harry ;))
IN WADA WE TRUST

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #79 –
Quote from: Juddkreuzer – on
Our foot skills have been severely lacking for more than a decade now.  Even those players who are very capable by foot are making too many turnovers. I speak of Gibbs, Murphy, Judd and Thomas. Then we have the butchers, Bell, Tuohy, Curnow and Walker. In between these two groups is a collective of uninspiring users of the footy. The only blokes I'd let off at this stage are the Ciarans (who have both shown a bit), Docherty and Simmo.

It's a far cry from the 95 team when there were few players you couldn't trust with the ball in hand. (apologies to Harry ;))
I don't think we are lessed skilled than other teams, we just have an extra degree of difficulty in our execution.

Compare our ball use with that of our opponents.  When we get possession, particularly in a clearance or contested situation, the ball is thrown onto the boot and it's a 50-50 proposition whether it goes to our advantage.  This was particularly evident against Essendon where we won the clearances but turned the ball over before the second or third possession.

Most, if not all, other teams use a string of handpasses to get the ball to a runner in the clear.  This results in a balanced kick not under pressure or a couple of bounces and a measured kick. 

Our reluctance to handpass creatively means that our disposal by foot is under pressure and misdirected as a result.

 

It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #80 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
One of the best 1-liners i can remember was said by Brettie in an in-game thread when we played the Bulldogs sometime during the Ratten era.

Something along the lines of...
"As far as i can tell, our gameplan is to kick it directly to Brian Lake and hope his jumper changes colour"

Oi! I think that was me :P If not, it wouldn't be Brettie, he wouldn't dare be seen frequenting an unofficial fan site while strutting through the Medallion club or MCC
 

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #81 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
That says more about your memory than any game plan issues.

One of the best 1-liners i can remember was said by Brettie in an in-game thread when we played the Bulldogs sometime during the Ratten era.

Something along the lines of...
"As far as i can tell, our gameplan is to kick it directly to Brian Lake and hope his jumper changes colour"

It's been happening for longer than anyone cares to remember. You're a lucky one because you've been able to forget!

That is one of my endearing qualities  ;)
2025... Moir of the same to come

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #82 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Most, if not all, other teams use a string of handpasses to get the ball to a runner in the clear.  This results in a balanced kick not under pressure or a couple of bounces and a measured kick. 

Our reluctance to handpass creatively means that our disposal by foot is under pressure and misdirected as a result.

Okay sorry about the video titles, some tosser (probably a DC scum supporter) has put these on you tube. But they illustrate how even our greatest player of the past decade butchers the ball at times under no pressure. Interesting how Bruce says in the second video (Ratten era) that "we're getting used to sloppy play by Carlton" By no means is this a slight on the great man, but it sets a standard.

[flash=400,400]https://www.youtube.com/v/obgZArD4uks[/flash]

[flash=400,400]https://www.youtube.com/v/Za_lQAnFq80[/flash]
IN WADA WE TRUST

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #83 –
All players butcher the ball occasionally, we're just more consistent  :(

It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #84 –
It has been long known that Judd ain't the best kick in the world.. Hasn't stopped him influencing a lot of games.

I'm sure I could trawl Utube and come across numerous clips of hack scraggers like Melksham blocking Judd's run at the ball and holding at every contest.... holding that is so frequent yet infrequently penalised.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #85 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
It has been long known that Judd ain't the best kick in the world.. Hasn't stopped him influencing a lot of games.

I'm sure I could trawl Utube and come across numerous clips of hack scraggers like Melksham blocking Judd's run at the ball and holding at every contest.... holding that is so frequent yet infrequently penalised.

Funny thing was I searched "Hawthorn turnovers" to see if I could find examples of the best club by foot turning it over and there was nothing for the Hawks other than a press conference but these Juddy Vids were there.
IN WADA WE TRUST

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #86 –
Quote
CARLTON
The turnover Blues: Turnovers killed the Blues in 2014. Despite averaging the fourth-fewest turnovers in the competition (61.2 a game), they were scored against 25.9 per cent of the time when they did, with only St Kilda punished more often. They also conceded the fourth-highest score from turnovers (55.9 points a game). But it was the Blues' midfield turnovers that hurt them the most. They conceded more points than any other side in this area (869) and were scored against 29.3 per cent of the time, 2.6 per cent more than the next worst team.

So clearly when we turn it over we pay severely.
IN WADA WE TRUST

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #87 –
Got my tickets, looking forward to watching the boys do us proud on Anzac Day. And being in the company of Kiwis makes the event even more significant, for historical reasons... and for them to witness proper football.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #88 –
Quote from: Juddkreuzer – on
So clearly when we turn it over we pay severely.

Thanks for that JK. That was my anecdotal impression. When we give up a turnover we are just badly exposed and can't get back to cover the opposition's ball movement. Couple that with our poor kicking for goal and you go along way to explaining our predicament atm.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Round #4 Carlton vs St. Kilda in NZ: Pre Game prognostications

Reply #89 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Thanks for that JK. That was my anecdotal impression. When we give up a turnover we are just badly exposed and can't get back to cover the opposition's ball movement. Couple that with our poor kicking for goal and you go along way to explaining our predicament atm.
I am not 100% sure how AFL define their Clangers stat however I googled it and Ted Hopkins of Champion Data defines it as a Turnover or mistake. I was staggered to learn that in 2014, Carlton had the fewest total number of Clangers of any Club. You read it correctly, the fewest. 912 for the year to be exact. PA made the most with 1151. So far this year, we have the 4th fewest. So it seems though that we get scored heavily against us from our TO's (or clangers) which means its all about where, who and how we turn it over perhaps.