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Topic: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) (Read 96886 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #225 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I understand that coves who contribute a certain amount to the club get to sit in the coach's box and it was Edelston's turn on Friday.

I'm not sure how Edelston can afford to make that contribution given that he settled his bankruptcy earlier this year with creditors accepting just a few cents in the dollar.  However, even if Edelston was able to chip in a seven figure sum, the club should say "Thanks, but no thanks!"

Edelston's association with our club and his presence in the coach's box epitomises the stench that permeates our off field culture and high level decision making; if you've got enough cash, you can have a say in deciding what's best for Carlton, regardless of your character or expertise.

If LoGiudice has (a) balls and (b) the best interests of our club at heart, he should send Edelston packing.

They don't know if they aren't told.

All it needs is a 2 line email telling the club that we don't want to be associated with the good doctor or his money.

[email protected].   He does listen. 

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #226 –
Been thinking about our terrible efforts and many suggest it's a Coach has lost the players issue...

Maybe the 'rift' is between players? And it spreads as people takes sides....?
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #227 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Been thinking about our terrible efforts and many suggest it's a Coach has lost the players issue...

Maybe the 'rift' is between players? And it spreads as people takes sides....?

That wouldn't surprise at all.
When things are going bad and you have a group of fringe players all trying to break into the side there will be many who think they deserve a spot ahead of others.

Now the argument against that is that they should suck it it up and get on with the job, but if you see a bloke getting a string of games and producing little while you get no opportunities it's only natural to be a little resentful.

You start to see hidden motives....Is he a coach favourite?..Are they playing him because they have to justify recruiting him?

Just as an example....
If you were Matthew Watson
You finished off 2014 with a very good game
The coach said how pleased he was that you'd finally developed a bit of self belief
Your setting yourself up for 2015 then.....
The club recruits and talks up a new recruit
He plays the first 5 games and shows very little.
With each game that goes by Watson may be starting to wonder if he's ever going to get an opportunity.
Now the easy solution would be for Watson to kick 7 or 8 goals in the VFL and demand a spot.
....but it doesn't stop individuals from feeling hard done by.
 (Note:.. I'm just using Watson as an example...he may be coping quite well with the situation.)

Now imagine you're Marc Murphy
You get kicked from pillar to post each weekend with little support from your team-mates
You're savaged by supporters for your lack of leadership.
Your lack of effort is highlighted in the media.
All the while the former captain is praised all over the place for his continued effort and inspiration.
This despite the fact that your own stats including defensive and pressure stats compare pretty favourably.
Even the best of us would feel a little aggrieved and resentful
(again just an example....BTW I reckon he's carrying a chronic injury)

Inconsistency in the treatment of players is one element that can have a detrimental effect on team dynamics.
Some may be embracing Mick's philosophy and game plan, others may not be so on-board. That can lead to divisions.
In the midst of a "rebuild" some players are probably distracted with no guarantees of a position next year.
Age and interest differences can contribute to a gap in the team. That's natural and understandable but still a factor in bonding within a struggling side.

Now maybe none of that is occurring, but there seems to be an inability for the team to play four quarters as a "team".

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #228 –
@Lods

Hard to know what's actually going on inside the tent Lods, but from observing what actually happens in games it is obvious to me that the team is restive, disillusioned to a degree and struggling with motivation. Underneath and driving that is likely to be some sense of futility in terms of where the hell the club is headed. Just my opinion - you'd have to be an insider to really know.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #229 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@Lods

Hard to know what's actually going on inside the tent Lods, but from observing what actually happens in games it is obvious to me that the team is restive, disillusioned to a degree and struggling with motivation. Underneath and driving that is likely to be some sense of futility in terms of where the hell the club is headed. Just my opinion - you'd have to be an insider to really know.

Yep 
We don't know
Player division may be the problem
It may just be one aspect.
It may not even exist (doubtful there isn't some tension at that level)

Nobody seems to want to embrace a process that would find out the answers.

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #230 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Been thinking about our terrible efforts and many suggest it's a Coach has lost the players issue...

Maybe the 'rift' is between players? And it spreads as people takes sides....?

...was a thought that occurred to me also the other day, maybe many blokes don't agree with Murph as Captain? Maybe they're not behind the Skipper. Reckon there might just be something in this; that there is disharmony in the ranks!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #231 –
Didn't the players vote Murph in?
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #233 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
They did, the selection needed the blessing of those higher up though.
I dont think the players have an issue with Murphy. I think they have an issue with the coach, that message was delivered to the football public Friday night.  If it wasnt the case, then I would have expected to see the leaders at least front up to the presser after the game with MM and make the statement "MM is not going in there alone tonight, we will take the heat for this alongside MM". Its what I would have done. Instead, they drank their Powerade, did some stretches, fixed their hair and collected a pay cheque on the way home.

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #234 –
When a team gets a run on, the players start playing for themselves.

I remember watching Ed Curnow Blanket a man next to a Player with a free kick, while two Collingwood players ran forward of the ball unopposed. It was like... "I am on this guy".
"We are a club in a hurry"

#united #reset

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #235 –
Quote from: shadesy – on
When a team gets a run on, the players start playing for themselves.

I remember watching Ed Curnow Blanket a man next to a Player with a free kick, while two Collingwood players ran forward of the ball unopposed. It was like... "I am on this guy".

Hit. Nail. Head.
Football is life, there is nothing else....

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #237 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
...was a thought that occurred to me also the other day, maybe many blokes don't agree with Murph as Captain? Maybe they're not behind the Skipper. Reckon there might just be something in this; that there is disharmony in the ranks!

Yeah, because it couldn't be Mick. ::)

FWIW, I don't think this bunch has ever been tight.

Clearly remember Walker and Simmo bagging Armfield (not to his face) at a training session at the WACA.
There's rarely been a vigorous response to opposition aggression.
The goal celebrations are almost non-existent.

If anything it's got worse in recent years.
You can fool some of the people some of the time.......................................

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #238 –
Quote from: cimm1979 – on
Yeah, because it couldn't be Mick. ::)

FWIW, I don't think this bunch has ever been tight.

Clearly remember Walker and Simmo bagging Armfield (not to his face) at a training session at the WACA.
There's rarely been a vigorous response to opposition aggression.
The goal celebrations are almost non-existent.

If anything it's got worse in recent years.

Yep if you were in the trenches with this lot you would be on your own......
 

Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game)

Reply #239 –
Quote from: shadesy – on
When a team gets a run on, the players start playing for themselves.

I remember watching Ed Curnow Blanket a man next to a Player with a free kick, while two Collingwood players ran forward of the ball unopposed. It was like... "I am on this guy".

There must be or has been someone or something at the club during the tenure of these guys that has caused them to be like this? It would be highly unlikely for ALL or even many of them to have this trait built in surely? In other words, it's more likely to be something they've learned at the club over years. What could be the common denominators?
Culture (onfield/off field)  inherited by the group from a previous time?
Coaching - been a problem, by degree, under multiple coaches?
Prolonged lack of effective leadership (lack of) - like growing up without a father can be detrimental?
Recruitment selection - bad psych profiling?
All of the above?
I give up, but maybe someone closer to the club could answer?
Reality always wins in the end.