Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

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Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #120 – May 17, 2015, 06:27:53 pm

Quote from: blue4life – on May 17, 2015, 04:55:47 pm

Malthouse got us to 6th and we finished 10th in Ratten's last year, but so what?
We were never a threat under Ratten no matter what his boosters say, and now we are paying the price for 15 years of abysmal recruiting.
Jock McHale, Ron Barassi and Leigh Matthews combined couldn't conjure wins out of the sorry group we send out on the weekend.
Sack the coach by all means, I'm past caring, but if you think things will turn around in a couple of years you're deluded.

Yes, we did get 6th...after finishing 9th. Then went totally downhill

Let me get this, Weren't a threat under Ratten but you seem "happy" enough to keep Mick when we're about to be on the bottom of the ladder going by current scores today in Brisbane. you know something. I'm much happier with not being a threat under Ratten coming 5th than Mick on the bottom.

We have Walker, Menzel, Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Simpson, Kreuzer, Cripps, Yarran, Docherty, Rowe, Henderson, Bell, Graham, Everitt, Thomas, Jamison, Casboult, Touhy, Carazzo. Decent enough. About 7, 8 or 9 places short of where that type of list should be. Of course someone half decent would conjure plenty of wins out of that. So, despite abysmal recruiting, getting 5th then would be a pretty fair achievement.

Plus he had Betts, Waite and Garlett and he let them go.

Some struggle to admit they are wrong even when it hits them like a wet fish in the face.

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #121 – May 20, 2015, 09:38:52 pm

Quote from: laj – on May 17, 2015, 06:27:53 pm

We have Walker, Menzel, Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Simpson, Kreuzer, Cripps, Yarran, Docherty, Rowe, Henderson, Bell, Graham, Everitt, Thomas, Jamison, Casboult, Touhy, Carazzo. Decent enough. About 7, 8 or 9 places short of where that type of list should be. Of course someone half decent would conjure plenty of wins out of that. So, despite abysmal recruiting, getting 5th then would be a pretty fair achievement.

Ask yourself how many of those players would get a game at Hawthorn, my best guess is three.
Rowe, Graham and Casboult are hacks, Kreuzer is never fit, Carrazzo, Thomas and Simpson are finished and Walker seems to be on the way, and the rest apart from Judd, Murphy, Gibbs and Yarran are battlers at best.
You've named 20 and included some spuds, we need another two (Ellard, Armfield?), then we need to cover injuries.
Our list is shot and it's the end result of years of incompetence.

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #122 – May 20, 2015, 10:05:40 pm

When you are playing crap everyone looks crap.

Saying players x,y and z wouldn't get a game with the Hawks is just a guess.

I still remember our '95 premiership team and knew that 6-8 of them would not have got a game with the WCE team (a Malthouse team) but they won a flag.

Saints made two GF's and almost won them both and had 12 guys that wouldn't have got a game with the Cats or Pies.

We have some massive holes, but these performances are worse than the list.

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #123 – May 20, 2015, 10:15:21 pm

At the moment the players need to give their best efforts to give SOS a real look at who needs to be traded and who needs to stay. Giving some of the players trade value. The entire list or close to, giving extremely poor performances doesn't help the club. What is more important is it doesn't help them remain as football players. Not every delisted player will have a football career. This needs to be understood by the playing group IMO. its not about looking after your own best interest, but being lazy will kill your long term career one day. No clubs like incompetent, lazy footballers. A few can get a new start, but they need to be young and have some X-factor. This is just my view on the matter.

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #124 – May 20, 2015, 10:40:23 pm

Quote from: Mantis – on May 20, 2015, 10:15:21 pm

At the moment the players need to give their best efforts to give SOS a real look at who needs to be traded and who needs to stay.

Mate with all due respect, SOS has seen enough. He has already decided who stays and who goes, I have no doubt whatsoever in mind about this.

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #125 – May 20, 2015, 10:49:40 pm

Gointocarlton, I agree that he has probably seen enough but so have a few other clubs ATM. If we continue to dish up the same rubbish for the rest of the season we will have no chance to trade players out. No clubs will want them. We will lose them for free. This is not fair for the club. We have lost too many for free in the past. Time to try to get a return on a few. At least look like most players have some worth.

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #126 – May 20, 2015, 11:10:16 pm

Quote from: Mantis – on May 20, 2015, 10:49:40 pm

Gointocarlton, I agree that he has probably seen enough but so have a few other clubs ATM. If we continue to dish up the same rubbish for the rest of the season we will have no chance to trade players out. No clubs will want them. We will lose them for free. This is not fair for the club. We have lost too many for free in the past. Time to try to get a return on a few. At least look like most players have some worth.

Again mate, with all due respect, what do you mean "no clubs will want them" ? IMO, we have rubbish no one wants for the large part. The hand full we have that are of any value? We actually need them which means if we trade them, we will be starting from scratch. Its a long road ahead, I just pray we get it right this time. Yes I am resigned to the fact and now accept its a full blown rebuild, ground up. Am I happy about this? F@#$ no, but its time to move forward. Rebuild it and make it the envy of the competition.

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #127 – May 20, 2015, 11:53:34 pm

GITC,

We have payers that would have been players that other sides would have taken. Gibbs, Murphy, Henderson, Yarran, Jamo, Walker, Curnow, Bell, Kreuzer, Levi, Simpson, White, Betts, Laidler, Warnock, Robinson, Garlett, Touhy, Waite, Menzel, have all had times when they had true value. In a trade they would have returned value back to the club. Sure some of the players are gone. Done and dusted. Returned little to nothing to our club. Some because of the AFL system in place. Especially how the FA system works. Some because we said too much to the media and sold the players to have no value to the club due to culture, which as a stupid idea to say the least.

We lost what we lost and need to get over it. Can't turn the past back to benefit our future. However the way the current squad is playing, we will need to delist more players. We need to turn around our list again. We can't hold on to all our older senior players. Not if they don't show they can tow the line for the next 2 to 3 years. So where are we left then? Holding all the senior players because they are the best we have to build on what? Players need to step up at every level to gain some value. We never know what a club will see in a players potential if they step up. Bell is a classic example. If he continues to plays at his best, another club might see value in him.

Should we trade him? Answer at fist is No. If they offered a 1st round pick for him? The answer would be a different issue. I am not saying he has value, but at the moment he could look to be a player most clubs would want to trade for. All I am saying is that with most players , their value is in the last 8 or so games they play. Many forget what has happened before. Cotchin as an example. Done sweet FA in his first 5 games, and in one game is called a hero of a leader at the club. Why? Because he has shown talent in the past. Just like our players have in the Ratten years. Not to the same extent, but talent way above what they show now.

Our players might show a lack of talent at the moment. However they really show a lack of intent and a lack of a contest. Thomas step forward, along with a list as long as my arm. Its is no longer a case of a coach who can't get his team to play. Its a case of do you want to play footy at AFL level ever again. You are about to get dumped in the sh1t hole of no return. We have no players of any value to other clubs, and the sole reason is that the players don't give a flying feck. They will be the ones that lose in this situation and the players only have themselves to blame, because they don't want to work for their money.

I would bust my right and left one to just have been given a chance to play VFL footy to get a sniff of a chance to play on the MCG in one game of my entire life. Then again I don't expect spoiled pussy players to give a feck about the club either. They have helped find a way to put us in a position to win another wooded spoon. Thanks boys, and thanks Mick, along with the board, feck you all. Sorry GITC not a go at you at all. Just p1ssed at where we are at the moment.

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #128 – May 21, 2015, 08:50:15 am

@ Mantis
Hard to argue with most of what you have written. I still don't rate many of our blokes but so be it, thats just a difference of opinion. In Bell's case, I have been a big (if not his biggest) critic in the past. He has shown alot this year so I guess its an example of how form can turn. I tip my hat to the kid and eat humble pie as I was wrong. If he can bring that endeavor every week and drag a few with him, all the better. We all share one thing in common no matter what opinion we have on things, that is a massive frustration of where we are at right now. Surely the tide must turn soon.
Cheers

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #129 – May 21, 2015, 08:30:37 pm

Quote from: cimm1979 – on May 20, 2015, 10:05:40 pm

I still remember our '95 premiership team and knew that 6-8 of them would not have got a game with the WCE team (a Malthouse team) but they won a flag.

Who?

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #130 – May 21, 2015, 09:43:12 pm

Quote from: madbluboy – on May 21, 2015, 08:30:37 pm

Who?

You can say they were all pretty good players, but I doubt any of them would have been picked up by the WCE. Many of them had deficiencies, but they all played a part.

The key to '95 was A graders and superstars at the peak of their powers playing consistently and the B graders doing everything right every week.

It also highlights the quality of our recruiting and the importance of getting guys 100% committed to the cause.

Remember 2 years before we had two recycled players, Athorn and Powell who just did screw all.

Matthew Hogg   recycled
Milham Hanna   good but not good enough to displace anyone at WC.
Dean Rice    delisted recycled after 2 knee reco's
Earl Spalding   recycled and had some ordinary seasons
Matt Clape delisted recycled
Brad Pearce delisted recycled
Camporeale   outside downhill skier
Adrian Whitehead   might have got a gig with WCE
Glenn Manton delisted recycled

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #131 – May 21, 2015, 10:22:32 pm

Camporeale was a gun.

Footy has changed now. St.Kilda were the last side that had a few a graders and lots of b and c graders and even the odd d grader who came close to a flag. The rest have had solid teams that have had one or two standout players and blokes that could play a role in any team In the competition Making up the rest.

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #132 – May 21, 2015, 10:45:06 pm

Mil Hanna? LMAO he was a gun.

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #133 – May 21, 2015, 10:49:55 pm

Quote from: madbluboy – on May 21, 2015, 10:45:06 pm

Mil Hanna? LMAO he was a gun.

There's 9 names there.

I nominated Hanna as a good player, but probably would not have got a run in that WCE line -up.

Which still leaves 8 that would not have, I'll even give you Whitehead as a maybe, still leaves 7.

The point was making, but you can't grasp MBB, is that saying player X, Y or Z wouldn't get a game with the Hawks, doesn't mean you cant compete.

As with the spuds that the Saints had and still made two GF's

......and Thy, Campo was not a MM type player, would not have got a run in the 94 eagles.
D

Re: Giants Trample Blues - Post Match

Reply #134 – May 22, 2015, 06:13:13 am

Sorry CIMM but Campo was not a downhill skier, star player mate, perhaps not in 1995 though which was his first year? the rest I agree with to a certain extent. Clape got ditched from the Eagles anyway. Manton was below average.