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Topic: Hawthorn v Carlton -Post Match thread (Read 39977 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Hawthorn v Carlton -Post Match thread

Reply #45 –
I don't know why anyone is campaigning for Watson.  He has shown marginal improvement in five years at the club and was not very good to begin with.

Better players than him have failed to forge a successful career.

He has played 20 AFL games and not once has he looked like making it in a serious way. If he survives it's because we have minimal options.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Hawthorn v Carlton -Post Match thread

Reply #46 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on


When you look at how much River Rat detests him and River Rat actually works with him it's hard to see him getting anywhere near his best under this current regime. Just bereft of confidence, hopefully they clear the place out and Watto gets a fresh start under a coaching team that believe in him.

1. I have never said that I detest him or hate him or anything similar - I have merely pointed out his limitations as an AFL and VFL player - In actual fact, I have repeatedly commented (this year) that I believe he has made improvements in his running and work rate - I simply believe that those improvements fall under the heading of "too little too late" - 5 years is a long time to be clogging the list.
2. I have never worked with him or even spoken with him
3. I suspect we have seen the best he has to offer - or close enough to it
4. Not just bereft of confidence
5. As for a coaching team that believes in him, I doubt that we would be wanting a coaching team that was so unrealistic in its beliefs.

Re: Hawthorn v Carlton -Post Match thread

Reply #47 –
Sorry about point 2, I didn't realise that was the case. Detest may be a strong word but you do dislike him no doubt.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Hawthorn v Carlton -Post Match thread

Reply #48 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Sorry about point 2, I didn't realise that was the case. Detest may be a strong word but you do dislike him no doubt.

I reiterate point 1.

I have no reason to dislike him; I don't know him; he might be a really good guy.

I just don't believe he is up to the standard.

Re: pM

Reply #49 –
Quote from: laj – on
Watson's played pretty well for 2 1/2 of his 3 games since returning (no forward would've got a touch during the 2nd half against GWS). Add that to his 4 goals last game last year and, while nothing great, showing he belongs at least since being moved up forward. He got his chance and took it.

Watson has to go - end of story !!!!
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: Hawthorn v Carlton -Post Match thread

Reply #50 –
Watson's just not much good, a pick 18 or so which bombed like all of our other picks around that mark in the last 10 years.
As for next season I'd be trying to farm Menzel out for a half decent pick or player, otherwise we'll still be talking about how classy he is in five years time and he'll still only be showing us glimpses.
Bell is a must keep, he gives us grunt around the ball and is a genuinely attacking footballer, Murphy and Cripps need him around.
Yarran is now devalued and we won't get what he's worth, if we can keep him and sort him out it's better than trading him out for a bag of potato chips, we know he can play good football on a consistent basis at least.
We don't have any other tradeable players that we can afford to lose in my opinion.
I'd see if Majak Daw wants to leave North, he's not getting a game there but I reckon he'd walk into our front 6.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: pM

Reply #52 –
Quote from: Lods – on
He probably does....it's just a bit bizarre

One of these players is the biggest spud on our list...the other's worth a first rounder. ;D

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=4&pid1=3597&tid2=4&pid2=3805&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

Such is perspective!

The same perspective debate applies to Kreuzer trades!

Some players have to go regardless of "potential", some players have to stay regardless! How does Carlton build fabric, not by keeping list cloggers and not by trading away the heart and soul.

Media are comparing our current Carlton situation to Hawthorn with Franklin/Roughead, but that is a poor analogy. Because Carlton finished bottom those years and Hawthorn received low picks they did not deserve. They offloaded has-been/average players and talked them up as potential future stars. If we kept Kreuzer, lost Watson and Menzel, and got pick 2 from the AFL for losing Menzel and extras we would be barely breaking even with the sort of deal Hawthorn got!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Hawthorn v Carlton -Post Match thread

Reply #53 –
Menzel isn't a FA , so there's no no2 pick for him.
I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: pM

Reply #54 –
Quote from: LP – on
Media are comparing our current Carlton situation to Hawthorn with Franklin/Roughead, but that is a poor analogy. Because Carlton finished bottom those years and Hawthorn received low picks they did not deserve. They offloaded has-been/average players and talked them up as potential future stars.

Hawthorn got Roughead and Franklin in 2004, Richmond and Footscray also had priority picks that year.
We won 11 games in 2004 and took Russell at pick 9.
Hawthorn drafted very well but I can't understand how you figure they didn't deserve the picks they had, they played under the same rules as the rest of the teams.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.
 

Re: pM

Reply #55 –
Quote from: Lods – on
He probably does....it's just a bit bizarre

One of these players is the biggest spud on our list...the other's worth a first rounder. ;D

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=4&pid1=3597&tid2=4&pid2=3805&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S
I think it goes to show how ineffective Menzel has been this season. Compare his career, or last season, and things look a little different.

However, it is all in the way that you look at things. Menzel is seen as a player with promise of great things. Watson is not any more.

Compare recent games and Watson comes out on top easily: he took 8 marks yesterday.

The future for both of these guys is interesting.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: pM

Reply #56 –
Quote from: TheSheik – on
Watson has to go - end of story !!!!

Depends, how you cover what you have. Key forward isn't exactly a strength. When you get rid of someone first you must have a solution. No good sacking everyone then have no solutions. We will get key position players in the draft but they are unlikely to be ready in the first months to 2 years. Hence we'll need cover. Maybe a trade for Cam McCarthy may be one solution.

Re: pM

Reply #57 –
Quote from: laj – on
Depends, how you cover what you have. Key forward isn't exactly a strength. When you get rid of someone first you must have a solution. No good sacking everyone then have no solutions. We will get key position players in the draft but they are unlikely to be ready in the first months to 2 years. Hence we'll need cover. Maybe a trade for Cam McCarthy may be one solution.

OUT: Watson
IN: Jack Silvagni

sorted ^-^

Re: pM

Reply #58 –
Quote from: laj – on
Depends, how you cover what you have. Key forward isn't exactly a strength. When you get rid of someone first you must have a solution. No good sacking everyone then have no solutions. We will get key position players in the draft but they are unlikely to be ready in the first months to 2 years. Hence we'll need cover. Maybe a trade for Cam McCarthy may be one solution.

Out Watson, in an inanimate carbon rod.

If you don't like the rod pickup a bollard from a building site.

Both would show more hardness and intensity at the contest that Watson.

 ;D
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: pM

Reply #59 –
Quote from: crashlander – on
I think it goes to show how ineffective Menzel has been this season. Compare his career, or last season, and things look a little different.

However, it is all in the way that you look at things. Menzel is seen as a player with promise of great things. Watson is not any more.

Compare recent games and Watson comes out on top easily: he took 8 marks yesterday.

The future for both of these guys is interesting.

Menzel has been one of the great disappointments of the season.

I don't usually give much attention to Garry Lyon's pronouncements but he made an interesting statement during the commentary.  Basically it was along the lines of ensuring that Menzel and Smith trained with Ed Curnow over the summer.  While there is merit in that, we could add a few other blokes to the Ed Curnow training camp.


"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball