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Topic: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ? (Read 23070 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Dominator_7 – on
The winds of change continue to blow through Princes Park

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dean-laidley-david-buttifant-leave-carlton-20150907-gjgo3r.html

Media also reporting Barker and others are on the way out as well!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #2 –
This was very much on the cards: it was one of the things brought up on the 'Assistants' thread in the last week or so.

I am of 2 minds as to Buttifant: he was a Matlhouse appointment, but we really didn't show signs of being any worse under him than we did under Justin Cordy. However, as a clear Malthouse appointee, he did not appear to be as appreciated after Mick's departure. It was clear a week ago that he was going.
The question we now have is simple: can we find someone to make us the fittest, strongest, fastest team on the park without flowing James Hird into oblivion in the process?

Laidley going disappoints me. We have done particularly well in the midfield this year: ranked #2. Much of that was Laidley. Considering that we had ruck dominance for about 2 games in the entire year, our ability to get clearances was amazing. I was hoping we could work on that, and that Laidley might be retained to do so. Since he stopped being a head coach, he hasn't done or said anything moronic, nor irritated me.
However, it appears he was one of the first out of the door.

Barker is the one of interest. Few coaches have wanted guys who failed to get their job as assistants. Pagan was quite adamant about that when his relationship with Mitchell died. While both the club and Bolton have come out publically backing Barker and praising him, it is questionable as to whether Barker will find the idea of working with the man who beat him for the job acceptable.
In some ways I hope Barker and Bolton can work together, but I won't be surprised if barker decides to go elsewhere.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: crashlander – on
This was very much on the cards: it was one of the things brought up on the 'Assistants' thread in the last week or so.

I am of 2 minds as to Buttifant: he was a Matlhouse appointment, but we really didn't show signs of being any worse under him than we did under Justin Cordy. However, as a clear Malthouse appointee, he did not appear to be as appreciated after Mick's departure. It was clear a week ago that he was going.
The question we now have is simple: can we find someone to make us the fittest, strongest, fastest team on the park without flowing James Hird into oblivion in the process?

We had no fitness problems under Cordy, it was just an excuse being made for poor on-filed performance. Cordy is one of Pratt's "Get the Best" that we let slip through the cracks to cover up for a very poor coaching appointment.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #4 –
Certainly feels like total rebuild now, and not a half a*sed one.
Getting rid of all the dead wood on and off the park... mostly all the remnants of the complacent Sticks / Swann era.
Cashing in on whatever has value...
Sad to see JB go if true,
This is exciting.
I honestly feel like we re doing things right this time.

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Dominator_7 – on
Certainly feels like total rebuild now, and not a half a*sed one.
Getting rid of all the dead wood on and off the park... mostly all the remnants of the complacent Sticks / Swann era.
Cashing in on whatever has value...
Sad to see JB go if true,
This is exciting.
I honestly feel like we re doing things right this time.

Agree with all of this.
As for JB, if he wants out that's understandable but the club has been all class in it's handling of his situation since the Bolton appointment.
IN WADA WE TRUST
 

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: LP – on
We had no fitness problems under Cordy, it was just an excuse being made for poor on-filed performance. Cordy is one of Pratt's "Get the Best" that we let slip through the cracks to cover up for a very poor coaching appointment.
I'm inclined to agree. Our performance at the end of games was to be feared under Cordy (for the 1st season or so). However, after that we stagnated on fitness and no longer came home at the end. Whether that was Cordy's fault or not was problematical.
I must admit that he hasn't covered himself with glory with what he has done since, but I thought at the time that we were on the right track with him.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: LP – on
We had no fitness problems under Cordy, it was just an excuse being made for poor on-filed performance. Cordy is one of Pratt's "Get the Best" that we let slip through the cracks to cover up for a very poor coaching appointment.

Well thats up for debate, but either way it doesnt matter.

This has become about regime change, and in the process you will lose good peole.

Laidley and Buttifant might well be those people.  Either way its irrelevant as we are starting again.  Its something that was likely to have occurred late last year (according to what I was thinking before we made the decision to sack Ratten in 2012).  The end of 2014 was always going to be the time when his work should reach its peak, and because we changed directions we stopped it from happening, or changed tact enough to render the work useless, or irrelevant.

Either way, we need to be comfortable that we have changed our sights in accordance with our teams fortunes, and are "starting again" with the guys surrounding Patrick Cripps.

Quote
John Barker, given the caretaker role after Malthouse left in May, will decide after a week on holiday with his family whether he wants to remain and work as an assistant to Bolton. The Blues are keen for him to stay.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dean-laidley-david-buttifant-leave-carlton-20150907-gjgo3r.html#ixzz3l1IYHowW
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

This shows that Barker is someone they want to keep.  I don't think wholesale changes are the way to go, as it seems a very scattergun approach to fixing things.

As an IT person, you take action A and see the result of that action, before you take action B, and the more things you roll into one process the harder is to recognise what worked and what didnt.

Quote from: crashlander – on
I'm inclined to agree. Our performance at the end of games was to be feared under Cordy (for the 1st season or so). However, after that we stagnated on fitness and no longer came home at the end. Whether that was Cordy's fault or not was problematical.
I must admit that he hasn't covered himself with glory with what he has done since, but I thought at the time that we were on the right track with him.

We were also a bit slow to start under Cordy which also didnt help matters, and it can be argued that what worked initially failed in the long term approach.

Its hard to measure.  Have a look at Port.  They went from running machines, to struggling this year, and im interested to see how the Bulldogs fare next season, because if they too have a drop off, then it might be that Cordy's programs might suit for a season but a plateu in that might be reached where things stop working.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: crashlander – on
I'm inclined to agree. Our performance at the end of games was to be feared under Cordy (for the 1st season or so). However, after that we stagnated on fitness and no longer came home at the end. Whether that was Cordy's fault or not was problematical.
I must admit that he hasn't covered himself with glory with what he has done since, but I thought at the time that we were on the right track with him.

Well Cordy has the Bulldogs flying, and it was enough for Gold Coast to poach him!

As for "stagnation", I think injuries were more the issue than fitness. In hindsight, we were carrying way to many list cloggers, and had shizen player development(We still do, or at least did until today?)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #9 –
A really sensible approach.
A complete fresh start is the way to go.

In that process you lose some skills, but it eliminates a rallying point for any discontent with the new regime.

It's the reason why it would be best for Barker to move on as well.



Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
We were also a bit slow to start under Cordy which also didnt help matters, and it can be argued that what worked initially failed in the long term approach.

Being slow to start games has nothing to do with fitness, warm-ups or physical health. It's all in the head! ;)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #11 –
Buttifant improved our fitness. Problem is the other clubs improved as well. Evolution.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: LP – on
Being slow to start games has nothing to do with fitness, warm-ups or physical health. It's all in the head! ;)

Yes but when we did start well, we didnt finish well which was a concern.

We have never really been a 4 quarter team under either of them, and a fresh slate is nice, but a scattergun approach to fixing things will yield as many misses as it does hits.

I don't like it that much and fear that its throwing the baby out with the bathwater relying on us refilling the bath properly which we have not gotten right yet.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #13 –
This is all good ....the judge and trigger are doing what they need to do.....

Re: Laidley and Buttifant GONE!! More changes to come ?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Yes but when we did start well, we didnt finish well which was a concern.

We have never really been a 4 quarter team under either of them, and a fresh slate is nice, but a scattergun approach to fixing things will yield as many misses as it does hits.

I don't like it that much and fear that its throwing the baby out with the bathwater relying on us refilling the bath properly which we have not gotten right yet.

How does any of this relate to fitness?

How does it rationalise the changes at the Bulldogs and the poaching of Cordy by Gold Coast?

You seem to be blaming a bad taste on the color blue!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"