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Topic: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (Read 844600 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2910 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I don't see how it isn't.
Biden's improved Clinton's vote by a lot more.
Getting people who didn't vote for you (or your party) four years ago to turn out and vote for you means that there must be some appeal there.
Convincing people who already support you to vote is not the same as picking up support, I realise this is a technical debate, but when you use a term like "with support he picked up" it's a bit Trumpesque!

 It's the deliberately loose use of language, and promoting all opinions as equal, that got us into this mess!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2911 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I'll make a call.

If George Floyd hadn't been killed sparking the BLM riots, Trump would have retained office.

His biggest issue was more about perception and this was deemed to be his fault publicly.
Well you are of course free to be wrong, as was Trump, as we all are.

We are also free to have an opinion, but nothing in nature states our opinions have to be treated equally, it's a perspective of life that many seem to struggle with, particularly it seems those who struggle the most are many with a high public profile!

I suspect Harris might be the next President.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2912 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
My point was that no matter how many of the "hordes" love Trump and voted for him in 2 elections, his opponent in both of those elections received more popular votes. This led me to ponder just how popular he really is. Also remember that one of those, Hilary Clinton, is not only a woman, but is viewed as untrustworthy and openly disliked by sections of the American population. And she got more votes than the bloke who is, according to some on here, universally adored.

I see the point, but Biden and Clinton's popularity is not really relevant when assessing Trump's popularity.
Bill down  the street has more friends than I do...that doesn't mean I'm not popular...and am gathering new friends.
Sure the Democratic candidates attracted a lot more of the popular vote but...
Trump should have gone down in a screaming heap, voters should have deserted him in droves (and many did), but somehow he increased his vote by about 10 million.
That's ten million extra  people who were either satisfied with the way he was doing his job or were concerned about the alternative.
Now the fact that more folks turned out means both sides go up in numbers, but that doesn't negate the concerning reality that there was some factor that meant Trump attracted more people to vote for him than voted for him in 2016.
Trump's popularity claims (like most of his estimates) are over the top but how popular was he?..about 74 million (I suspect it's dropped a bit since November.)
You would think that the Democratic Party would be looking at those numbers with a little interest, and not dismissing them in the euphoria of victory in planning the next couple of years.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2913 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Trump should have gone down in a screaming heap, voters should have deserted him in droves (and many did), but somehow he increased his vote by about 10 million.
Trump blamed the pain he inflicted on the masses on others, his lies were accepted by his followers on face value and have not been exposed, when some tried to like the FDA and CDC he burned them at the stake. When he did that he inflicted even more pain, I suspect the irony is that his supporters make up a rather large percentage of the COVID dead, and if the science is correct and can't find a fix that number will at least double over the next 6 - 12 months!

The truth will out, it always does, Watergate wasn't a fluke as it is portrayed in popular media, it was an inevitability!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2914 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I'll make a call.

If George Floyd hadn't been killed sparking the BLM riots, Trump would have retained office.

His biggest issue was more about perception and this was deemed to be his fault publicly.

In my mind, not a shadow of doubt about that Thry

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2915 –
Quote from: LP – on
Convincing people who already support you to vote is not the same as picking up support, I realise this is a technical debate, but when you use a term like "with support he picked up" it's a bit Trumpesque!

 It's the deliberately loose use of language, and promoting all opinions as equal, that got us into this mess!

It's the reality of the US electoral system.
Biden managed to motivate more of his folk to turn out.
If I don't feel committed enough to vote for a candidate in one election even though he shares my beliefs and I'm a registered voter for his party... If he picks up my vote in the following election he has "attracted my support."

 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2916 –
Quote from: Lods – on
It's the reality of the US electoral system.
Biden managed to motivate more of his folk to turn out.
If I don't feel committed enough to vote for a candidate in one election even though he shares my beliefs and I'm a registered voter for his party... If he picks up my vote in the following election he has "attracted my support."
It's seems arbitrary to assert one voter response is more valid as a popularity measure while the other is just a motivation of existing supporters, have I missed a point?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2917 –
The democrats want unity despite smashing Trump for 4 years. Good luck.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2918 –
Quote from: LP – on
It's seems arbitrary to assert one voter response is more valid as a popularity measure while the other is just a motivation of existing supporters, have I missed a point?

Here's my concern.
We really don't know the motivation of those extra10 million who turned out for Trump.
Some may have been Republican voters who failed to vote last time but thought they'd give it a go this time.
But some may have been 'new comers' turned or motivated by the events of the last four years.
I'm not sure how you get into the head of each and everyone of those folks.
It's probably fair to say those extra 10 million are less 'rusted on' than Trump's extremist base.
They'll either become more committed in the next few years or go back to the couch.

I reckon it's a big mistake on the Democratic side if those numbers (and the other 60 odd million) are ignored, dismissed or diminished because they represent a strong base for future Republican leaders to mount an assault on seats of power.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2919 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
My point was that no matter how many of the "hordes" love Trump and voted for him in 2 elections, his opponent in both of those elections received more popular votes. This led me to ponder just how popular he really is. Also remember that one of those, Hilary Clinton, is not only a woman, but is viewed as untrustworthy and openly disliked by sections of the American population. And she got more votes than the bloke who is, according to some on here, universally adored.

And Biden was hardly an inspiring, popular candidate!  To paraphrase Bill Hayden, a drover’s dog could have led the Democrats to victory.

When you have the likes of Mitch McConnell turning on the ex-POTUS, the GOP base will quickly move on and leave a small MAGA residue mourning their delusional crybaby hero.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2920 –
Quote from: LP – on
Well you are of course free to be wrong, as was Trump, as we all are.

We are also free to have an opinion, but nothing in nature states our opinions have to be treated equally, it's a perspective of life that many seem to struggle with, particularly it seems those who struggle the most are many with a high public profile!

I suspect Harris might be the next President.

Nothing surer LP.  If Kamala Harris takes office during Biden's regime, the Republicans will win the next election easily.

People hate politics and the feeling of being deceived more than anything else.  In my mind, there has been no greater way to lose an election than changing leaders mid stream, because the people feel stiffed when their elected leader is replaced by someone who didn't win the election under their own steam.

We know all about this here.  From Rudd, Gillard back to Rudd, Abbot, Turnbull and now Scomo, its all about pigs putting their noses in the trough and I personally think that Trump won the election because of this more than anything else.  I'd wager that Trump supporters see him more as one of them than the rest.  The political figures tend to be better at the public appearance than actually giving anyone any real substance.

Trump didnt pretend.  he was too arrogant to bother.  He was exactly what he was, and that was ultimately what cost him more than anything else, but its also the reason he won office to start with, and its best we dont ignore that.  IMHO, id rather someone be despicable for being who they are, than despicable for being someone they arent.

Its amazing.  Politicians couldnt be more disconnected from joe average these days, which is the main reason people mistrust the whole political system.

The monarchy was despised for the same reasons universally.  Governments have come and gone, and it looks as though absolute power corrupts absolutely and the masses are the only ones paying for it.

the only thing modern politics has going for it, is that more people have more wealth than ever before, but I suspect that this is something that wont last and sooner or later the system will ensure class division continues.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2921 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
The democrats want unity despite smashing Trump for 4 years. Good luck.
Trump and the GOP smashed Obama (and Biden) for 8 years, so they’re well ahead on that score. But maybe when Trump becomes old news for the GOP, none of that will matter.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2922 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
The democrats want unity despite smashing Trump for 4 years. Good luck.

The Democrats would have been derelict in their duty if they hadn’t smashed the ex-POTUS.  The sad thing is that the Republicans are only just realising that they should have been smashing him too.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the insurrection brings about a more united congress.  The attitude of senior Republicans towards the ex-POTUS has hardened considerably since he placed them in harm’s way.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2923 –
MBB, have you heard the gossip that Trump plans to start his own party? If so, you’d think Republicans will be thinking the enemy of our enemy is our friend ...

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2924 –
Looks like Trump’s future is to be a much less powerful American version of Pauline Hanson!