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Topic: For Discussion (Read 38244 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: For Discussion

Reply #30 –
This is definitely a glass half empty post. I think our mid-field is fine, barring injuries, Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps, Graham, Curnow, Thomas, Kerridge with plenty of others able to have a run through the middle. I also expect our rucks to be stronger, particularly if Kreuzer stays fit. I think our weaknesses are we do not have a power forward who commands the game, we do not have a key defender who we can put on opponents main man and we may be a bit slow across the ground. Hopefully with Bolton and the wholesale changes to our list, we may overcome our other main weakness which was the team didn't have a red hot go week in and week out. I always found in competitive sport that if you play to win you can be surprised by how often you actually do win. Maybe not the flag this year but I expect us to be a hell of a lot better this year than last.

Re: For Discussion

Reply #31 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Someone look at the Doggies' 2015 list and explain how the made the 8 - and almost won a final?

Is that list better than ours?

I think not.

Couldn't agree more. The reality is that our management, direction, culture, coaching and development have been a rabble or semi rabble for a long time. The only glimmer of hope was the brief Pratt/Ratten era, and even that was dragged down by poor recruiting and development.

The Dishlickers showed the footy world very clearly that a well drilled group will get the best out of themselves. No-one, but no-one picked the Dishlickers to have any impact this year. Like many, I am cautiously optimistic about how we will perform next year.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: For Discussion

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Blue Moon – on
This is definitely a glass half empty post. I think our mid-field is fine, barring injuries, Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps, Graham, Curnow, Thomas, Kerridge with plenty of others able to have a run through the middle. I also expect our rucks to be stronger, particularly if Kreuzer stays fit. I think our weaknesses are we do not have a power forward who commands the game, we do not have a key defender who we can put on opponents main man and we may be a bit slow across the ground. Hopefully with Bolton and the wholesale changes to our list, we may overcome our other main weakness which was the team didn't have a red hot go week in and week out. I always found in competitive sport that if you play to win you can be surprised by how often you actually do win. Maybe not the flag this year but I expect us to be a hell of a lot better this year than last.

Yet the Doggies have no power forward yet two of theirs kicked over 50 goals.

Between the Bolt, Walks and Everitt - no reason they couldn't achieve the same aggregate. Don't be surprised to see Weitering played forward a bit too....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: For Discussion

Reply #33 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Between the Bolt, Walks and Everitt - no reason they couldn't achieve the same aggregate. Don't be surprised to see Weitering played forward a bit too....

Aside from walker (who is past his best) there is nothing to base this upon other than hope.

We're in a tough situation and everybody has to look past results and pull in the same direction. When the entire world is against us and not much is going right on the field we need everyone fighting on the same side instead of with each other - as is our typical MO - as the Hawks did when they were in the lower rungs of the ladder.

Re: For Discussion

Reply #34 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Yet the Doggies have no power forward yet two of theirs kicked over 50 goals.

Disagree there, Stringer is a power forward. He might not be 195cms, but he monsters opponents his height and beats stronger defenders on the lead. With the Dogs kicking skills and their speed, Stringer is in the box seat when they get a stride or two clear.

Do I hope we climb the ladder? Part of me says yes, the other says build slowly. The worst thing that Pagan did was get us up the ladder before we had talent. This means we got Jordan Russell instead of a Delideo, Roughead, Franklin or Griffin.

We need a talent base which takes time at the bottom, trading away aged talent for low picks. I would be happy if McCarthy didn't want to go back to Freo this season and we traded Casboult for pick 15ish win for both parties and the player. He can have a crack at a premiership and we get another under 20 pick.

Re: For Discussion

Reply #35 –
The Dogs also have Crameri (for the time being anyway) and Dickson who are both handy and strong goal kicking types.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: For Discussion

Reply #36 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Aside from walker (who is past his best) there is nothing to base this upon other than hope.

We're in a tough situation and everybody has to look past results and pull in the same direction. When the entire world is against us and not much is going right on the field we need everyone fighting on the same side instead of with each other - as is our typical MO - as the Hawks did when they were in the lower rungs of the ladder.

It's one thing that did go ok last year. Everitt, Casboult, and Walker very late in the year, did hit the scoreboard regular despite the most putrid delivery one could imagine in a side that barely had a crack. It's more than hope when they actually did it. Would've been interesting if we had a side that had a crack and moved the ball alot better into the F50.

Re: For Discussion

Reply #37 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Re the bold part. I disagree.
Silvagni will only get a game if we are dead last and tanking in the last couple of rounds. Otherwise, we'd be lucky to see him in 2017 i think. He hasn't even played footy for what 6 months?

The others may well get game time, but i'd suggest a lot later than you predict and only if injuries hit. Curnow is my tip to get gametime first. But i don't expect to see him before the halfway point.

The reason?
All the GWS/Adelaide boys we've got, together with the players we have coming back from injuries last year.
Players like Thomas, Byrne, Sheehan, Graham were all unavailable for most of the season.

I dunno, i'd go through 30-35 players before i got to any of our new recruits.

C.Curnow is a big, strong boy. If he has a good pre-season I reckon he could be straight in. Agree more with the rest. Cunningham, McKay 2nd half of the year, Cunningham first being a mid. McKay, like McCartin aat the Saints, will get the odd game to get the feel of AFL. SOSOS will need a year in the twos as he need physcial development.

Re: For Discussion

Reply #38 –
Quote from: jeza – on
We've got the least AFL-proven players in the comp so we deserve every bit of our wooden spoon favoritism.

Injuries seem to be an ongoing factor for us unfortunately - Murphy shoulder not coming right already has to be a significant concern. Plowman hip operation. We've got a bit of a jinx going which sucks.

However... the biggest thing we have going for us is probably Bolton. If he can get it right his impact could be immediate and if we can somehow keep Kreuze/Cripps/Murph/Gibbs/Thomas injury free for the whole season we'll have a core to build around and be a lot more competitive.

At best 6 wins for me. At worst - lots of injuries and a total train wreck.

We'll win more than you think as, unlike last year, we will actually try!

Re: For Discussion

Reply #39 –
Quote from: laj – on
We'll win more than you think as, unlike last year, we will actually try!
I was thinking about this today, we finished 18th this year but was that our "real" position? How much of that was where are at and how much of it was "manufactured" (many in the industry refer to it as tanking, just as many will tell you tanking doesn't exist)?
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: For Discussion

Reply #40 –
Quote from: Vivian – on
Sad to say we should be wooden spoon favourites. We lost our best player this year, and teams will work out how to nulify Cripps. He is going to get so much attention in 2016 from scraggers. Hopefully he is working on his kicking so he can be dangerous around goals as that will allow him to shake tags.

I'm optimistic we could get 5 or 6 wins. But with so many new players, and an average established core we are going to take some hammerings. Injuries as alway will make a difference. Having Kruezer and Thomas play 15 odd games each will make a big difference.

Its amazing how every year we hope/anticipate the first year players will get a few games and do well. We hear about some 18 year olds being 'ready'. No they are not. If Silvangni gets a game in 2016 we will be in serious strife. If any of the first year players get more than 1 or 2 games we will have had a bad injury toll. We really want to see the likes of Boekhorst getting 10 or so decent games with 5 or 6 in a row toward the end of the season. Rowe to have been displaced by KJ by the end of the year. That would show good improvement. A strong showing by the NBs is vital to build a base for the longer term.

And a miracle win against Hawthorn in Launceston.

There seems to be a myth about first year players not being ready to play AFL.  Yes, some aren't ready and Silvagni seems to fall into that category at the moment.

Last year's first 20 draft picks averaged just over 7.5 games with Brayshaw clocking up 21, De Gooey 16, Heeney 14, Lever and Duggan 12 and Boekhorst 11.  Only three failed to crack it for a game so the 17 that did play averaged 9 games between them.

I reckon it's a safe bet that Weitering, McKay, Curnow and Cuningham will average more than 7.5 games in 2016.  The only reason they won't is if everyone else plays out of their skins and we finish top 4.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: For Discussion

Reply #41 –
Quote from: rocky – on
Quite surprised really that so many believe we will get another spoon, and I thought I was a pessimist. As others have suggested BARRING injuries I can't see us coming last. We only just got there last year when Brisbane got over a sub-standard doggies unit in the last round. We were only 2 points away from the suns at 16th. Granted sides will imporve (Ablett returns for GC) but by the same token other teams drop off. Cannot accept that the Lions are a better unit than us. Bloody hell we still managed to beat Melbourne when we were on our knees!
Think with everyone on deck, fit and well, and a couple of players improving will make all the difference.
Forward line is our achilles.

"BARRING injuries"... hmmm..

What are the chances of that? Every club gets injuries and some clubs (i.e. ours) have a playing list predisposed to accumulating injuries. And we dumped a lot of experience in this off-season and replaced them with kids. We are a few key injuries away from train wreck.

Unless Bolton is a magician - a possibility I do not rule out.

Re: For Discussion

Reply #42 –
Re Walker:  I was all ready to concede that pinning any hope on him up forward would be unrealistic. However in his last 4 games last year up forward, where we got smashed in 3, he averaged 2.5  goals per game.

In any man's language, if we as a team can improve, he should be pencilled in for 30 - 40 for the season, if fit and played forward.

Re: For Discussion

Reply #43 –
Quote from: jeza – on
"BARRING injuries"... hmmm..

What are the chances of that? Every club gets injuries and some clubs (i.e. ours) have a playing list predisposed to accumulating injuries. And we dumped a lot of experience in this off-season and replaced them with kids. We are a few key injuries away from train wreck.

Unless Bolton is a magician - a possibility I do not rule out.

Menzel was injury proned......now someone else's problem
Yarran refused to play with a niggle........now someonelse's problem
Ellard couldn't get on the park........retired.

We have offloaded some injury liabilities.

Re: For Discussion

Reply #44 –
Quote from: townsendcalling – on
Re Walker:  I was all ready to concede that pinning any hope on him up forward would be unrealistic. However in his last 4 games last year up forward, where we got smashed in 3, he averaged 2.5  goals per game.

In any man's language, if we as a team can improve, he should be pencilled in for 30 - 40 for the season, if fit and played forward.

Walker is the type of player that will always offer your side more as a forward than in the back 50m. He makes mistakes and costs us goals as a defender. Up forward he can create some magic. Just tell him not to try taking mark of the year every time he has an opportunity to fly for a mark. Let the big bodies fly and get the ball when it hits the deck.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.