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Topic: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs (Read 70844 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #45 –
Quote from: RiverRat – on
I can't agree with that assessment b/c when Kreuzer is in for the centre bounce he provides another midfielder to assist in clearances - Phillips might get his hand on the ball but clearances tend to go to the opposition. Unfortunately, Phillips seems to be less of a forward than Kreuzer.

If he is not carrying an injury at the moment and IF we are actually trying to win games, I would prefer to see Kreuzer doing a greater proportion of the ruckwork with limited relief provided by Rowe, Casboult or Jones - all of whom represent better alternatives as tall forwards than either Phillips or Kreuzer. 

However, if the focus is on development, I can fully understand the decision to give Phillips a fair-go in the ruck.

MK cannot dominate weak opposing rucks.....Hampson, Griffiths, two forwards turned rucks in Sinclair and Tippett and now Nicholls vs GC......not exactly Sandilands, Goldstein quality is it?
Doesnt take any marks and his much vaunted skills below his knees are a thing of the past as he doesnt even try and win possession just tries to knock the ball on to other players...

Its embarrassing for the club to drop Kruezer being a No 1 pick and favourite son but it might have to happen...other clubs are experimenting more with mobile tall players who can also play other positions and we  cannot afford to carry two ruckman only types who give nothing else but the odd tapout.
Try some different combos..Philips/ Gorringe.......Gorringe/Casboult etc etc...lets do something different....
 

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #46 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
MK cannot dominate weak opposing rucks.....Hampson, Griffiths, two forwards turned rucks in Sinclair and Tippett and now Nicholls vs GC......not exactly Sandilands, Goldstein quality is it?
Doesnt take any marks and his much vaunted skills below his knees are a thing of the past as he doesnt even try and win possession just tries to knock the ball on to other players...

Its embarrassing for the club to drop Kruezer being a No 1 pick and favourite son but it might have to happen...other clubs are experimenting more with mobile tall players who can also play other positions and we  cannot afford to carry two ruckman only types who give nothing else but the odd tapout.
Try some different combos..Philips/ Gorringe.......Gorringe/Casboult etc etc...lets do something different....

Difference is EB when comparing to what other clubs do is they make the change only after the guys they are throwing in are close to being ready or have shown a bit at lower levels. The guys you mention have done neither.

Im not in favour of desperate changes - rather calculated ones.

No point trying something that has close to zero chance of being successful. Kreuzer had a massive end to 2015-sure he hasn't been great but many should be looked at before his name is mentioned.

Surely the protection he offers around the ball is something on its own we have very few players capable of.

 

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #47 –
I wonder if some boldness from selection is in order. Afterall, the players are being encouraged to do just that - be bold.

Just thoughts. Drop Phillips / 2nd ruckman all together. Have Meat (or Jones) support K in the ruck. (Jones' form in the 2s deserves another crack).

Drop Buckley, Whiley and Rowe.

Bring in Jones for Phillips.

Bring in Jaksch for Rowe.

Sumner for Buckley.

Cuningham or DVR for Whiley.

Then when Plowman is ready, rest young Curnow and play Plowman up forward.

Send Everitt overseas on a men's grooming and cosmetics fact finding expedition... with instructions not to return until October.



Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #48 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
I wonder if some boldness from selection is in order. Afterall, the players are being encouraged to do just that - be bold.

Just thoughts. Drop Phillips / 2nd ruckman all together. Have Meat (or Jones) support K in the ruck. (Jones' form in the 2s deserves another crack).

Drop Buckley, Whiley and Rowe.

Bring in Jones for Phillips.

Bring in Jaksch for Rowe.

Sumner for Buckley.

Cuningham or DVR for Whiley.

Then when Plowman is ready, rest young Curnow and play Plowman up forward.

Send Everitt overseas on a men's grooming and cosmetics fact finding expedition... with instructions not to return until October.

Isn't Sumner some way off in preparation? I thought he was about 3 weeks behind Plowman.
You can fool some of the people some of the time.......................................

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #49 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
MK cannot dominate weak opposing rucks.....Hampson, Griffiths, two forwards turned rucks in Sinclair and Tippett and now Nicholls vs GC......not exactly Sandilands, Goldstein quality is it?
In a lot of ways, this is the most damning aspect of Kreuzer this season. When he came back last year he did well against Gawn for 3 quarters - he really exposed Gawn's running with his. Nor was that his only decent effort. But this year he has struggled in the centre bounce, and his running ability has not been seen at all.
He did struggle against Hampson last year, but he was not long back playing at that point. Hampson really beat him in the air and killed him in the ruck.
Has he struggled to get used to our new style of game? Or has his mobility been compromised by his injuries? Whatever it is, he has not become either a Bull type ruckman or a Superman type, as he has neither the leap and athleticism, nor the strength.


Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Doesn't take any marks and his much vaunted skills below his knees are a thing of the past as he doesnt even try and win possession just tries to knock the ball on to other players...
The marking things is really worrying me. He is just not making us kick to him, nor is he holding the marks he gets to.
I'm less worried about his 'below the knees' stuff, but this has been one of his strengths and it just hasn't been there.
I don't mind him nocking the ball on constructively, but even that hasn't worked much.
I really want to see him get on his bike and make position, burning off his ruck opponent and get some cheap marks. Then his confidence might rise to the point where he starts taking some contested marks again.


Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Its embarrassing for the club to drop Kruezer being a No 1 pick and favourite son but it might have to happen...other clubs are experimenting more with mobile tall players who can also play other positions and we  cannot afford to carry two ruckman only types who give nothing else but the odd tapout.
Try some different combos..Philips/ Gorringe.......Gorringe/Casboult etc etc...lets do something different....
We may have to. Phillips has a future, but he isn't there yet. He needs another 5 - 10 kg of muscle to go with his leap, and probably another preseason or 2 to get the ball going to our mids properly.

Gorringe I would like to see get a go, but there is something not quite right yet with him. Maybe we need to get a sport's psychologist to get into his head and work out if he really wants to make it.

I am more worried now about Kreuzer than I ever have been before. In his present form he is one of the AFL's least effective ruckmen. He had NO PRESENCE around the ground. None. Nicholls didn't have a lot, he didn't even run to dangerous areas often. But Kreuzer did not attack and run off him. Not once. No big tackles. No big shepherds. Nobody feared him. Even though he got more taps that Nicholls (quite easily) last weekend, we did not get much benefit from it. Nicholls used his extra height and reach to knock Kreuzer's arm and affect his ability to direct his taps. When Nicholls was getting a tap, he usually got his quite clearly and to advantage.
Not all of this is Kreuzer's fault: Murphy, Gibbs and Cripps were down somewhat and couldn't combine like they did at times last year. I can recall Murphy's handball being picked off 3 or 4 times in the centre square. Ablett and Hall were reading the taps and our mids much better than the reverse.

Our whole centre structure is not working as well as it did last year. We had issues in the midfield (as we got torn up a few times), but Laidley deserves kudos for making our centre square work as well as it did. The only real problem with it was we were very indirect from the middle and almost never found a forward.
Maybe we will improve in this area of time: we have changed the set up significantly. I hope so, as I was bitterly disappointed with what we were doing in there.
Until we get a dominant ruckman, we won't seriously challenge the real contenders.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #50 –
When he came over we were told Kreuzer was an athletic freak, fact is he never was. He hasn't lost it, he simply never had it.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #51 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
When he came over we were told Kreuzer was an athletic freak, fact is he never was. He hasn't lost it, he simply never had it.

Nah his first season was as good a season as I have seen from a young ruck who was athletic and very good.

Unfortunately he just couldn't get his body right after succumbing to injury.

FWIW I've been told he is cooked and will never reach the heights he was destined to.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #52 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Nah his first season was as good a season as I have seen from a young ruck who was athletic and very good.

Unfortunately he just couldn't get his body right after succumbing to injury.

FWIW I've been told he is cooked and will never reach the heights he was destined to.

It was publicly known that kruezer was cooked in the sense that he failed 2 medicals at pies and dogs at last season's end

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #53 –
Quote from: MosquitoFleet – on
It was publicly known that kruezer was cooked in the sense that he failed 2 medicals at pies and dogs at last season's end
the difference is that was my mail years ago and it's something I have repeatedly stated on these forums.

I was hoping it was wrong and last season gave me hope but it's looking worse now.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #54 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on

FWIW I've been told he is cooked and will never reach the heights he was destined to.
By who?
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #55 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
By who?

A friend of mine knows the family,  as well as the physiotherapist he sought another opinion from.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #56 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Nah his first season was as good a season as I have seen from a young ruck who was athletic and very good.

Yeah nah when you think of athletic you think of quick and a big leap, Kreuzer never had those attributes full stop. Natanui is athletic, Kreuzer is a plodder when it comes to athletic ability.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #57 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Nah his first season was as good a season as I have seen from a young ruck who was athletic and very good.

Unfortunately he just couldn't get his body right after succumbing to injury.

FWIW I've been told he is cooked and will never reach the heights he was destined to.

He's roughly the same size as Goldstein  (200-201cm 103 kg)

But I reckon the injuries have made it too hard for him to carry that weight.
It's a Catch-22...lose the weight and get a bit of mobility and leap back but lose the size to compete.

This one time....at Draft camp..... :D

Quote
The No.1 pick for 2007 was Kreuzer. His scores at the camp included a 14.2 beep test (10th) - astounding for a kid of his size - as well as 10.51 min 3km time trial (9th) and a 3.06sec 20m sprint. All those times are exceptional for a midfielder, let alone someone tall and 95kg.

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #58 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Yeah nah when you think of athletic you think of quick and a big leap, Kreuzer never had those attributes full stop. Natanui is athletic, Kreuzer is a plodder when it comes to athletic ability.

I think he was pretty athletic for a ruckman when we drafted him but he has slowed considerably and what was athletic for a 200cm tall player 10 years ago isn't as much today.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Rd 4: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #59 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Yeah nah when you think of athletic you think of quick and a big leap, Kreuzer never had those attributes full stop. Natanui is athletic, Kreuzer is a plodder when it comes to athletic ability.

Hmm, I dont know.

either way, his good is outstanding and we forget how good it is simply because we havent seen him do it enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GWEJdRI7yk&nohtml5=False

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson