Rd 15: Post Game Frustrations: Carlton vs Collingwood

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Re: Rd 15: Post Game Frustrations: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #75 – July 03, 2016, 03:50:13 pm

I was really disappointed in last night. We showed a lot of fight and no small amount of courage, but they were up and close to their best (that is frightening as they were pretty ordinary), while we were a long way off it. We had only 1 player, Silvagni, who could not honestly say he has played better this season. Our best handful were only shadows of what they have been in other games. And we had a lot of guys who didn't fire a shot.
Everitt and Walker were particularly ordinary and would have to be lucky to hold their spots.
Sumner couldn't get the ball much, but his chasing and tackling were one of our highlights.
Casboult was so far down he must have seen the earth's core in close-up. He dropped marks and mucked up kicks and just didn't deliver a target.
Weitering played his poorest game and looked like he needed 'managing'. He needs to get his confidence back in the VFL (if only we could afford to do it). Maybe a week off altogether. The surety and kicking were not there and the decision making was far below his best.
Rowe and Plowman did good negative jobs, kept their men really quiet, but couldn't get a kick themselves. Particularly Rowe, who kept Cox to 2 possessions for the night.

[1] Our forward structures just weren't there. We did not give guys a target and nobody wanted the responsivity of kicking the goals.
[2] We mucked around terribly in the midfield and across half back as nobody had confidence to kick the ball quickly. as a result we moved the ball so slowly and our forwards had no chance, and, in trying NOT to make mistakes, we constantly made mistakes and turned the ball over.
[3] Our midfield is getting smashed. Our opponents are awake to Gibbs and Cripps when they come 3rd man up, they haven't given Cripps any room at all and he hasn't been able to create any (that is one of the reason why I think he is not 100% fit). We are very predictable and need to change things up or get smashed.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game ________: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #76 – July 03, 2016, 05:54:24 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on July 03, 2016, 01:44:21 am

Can someone tell me what Jones has done wrong?

Our forward six functions better with him in it than without him and he is good for one goal a game.

Since he has been dropped we haven't really fired and Casboult has found it much harder to function.

Sure he isn't great, but I thought he was doing enough to keep his spot and that he was stiff to be dropped.

Has been reasonably good with minimal service in the twos too.

Agree...Jones at least means a KP player from the other team has to mind him and you dont get everyone hanging off Casboult...the latter has been ordinary since Jones was dropped too.
Simon White wont make a forward and would have been better off down back helping out as we looked a bit undersized at times....
Collingwood only won by two goals and I think we had slightly more forward entries so Jones may have made a difference, even if Jones has contested with Reid he might have created some opportunities for our smalls..I thought Reid really towelled us up down back and was in the Pies best players.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game Frustrations: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #77 – July 03, 2016, 05:57:50 pm

Young Silvagni has footy smarts and skills.
How he's managed is pretty important because he's a bottom aged draftee and he's still very much a kid.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2016-07-03/postmatch-jack-silvagni

Look after him and he'll be a gem

Re: Rd 15: Post Game ________: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #78 – July 03, 2016, 06:01:56 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2016, 05:54:24 pm

Agree...Jones at least means a KP player from the other team has to mind him and you dont get everyone hanging off Casboult...the latter has been ordinary since Jones was dropped too.
Simon White wont make a forward and would have been better off down back helping out as we looked a bit undersized at times....
Collingwood only won by two goals and I think we had slightly more forward entries so Jones may have made a difference, even if Jones has contested with Reid he might have created some opportunities for our smalls..I thought Reid really towelled us up down back and was in the Pies best players.

Yet, having watched live and the replay, I'd have to say White was our most effective forward. If we'd been kicking half decently, or if Everitt had actually applied some physical contact, White could have easily had three or four more shots at goal within F50.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game ________: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #79 – July 03, 2016, 06:03:45 pm

Quote from: PaulP on July 03, 2016, 02:02:52 pm

Casboult should be played in the goal square, as a roving marking target, and a bit of ruck work. Nothing else. The main forwards should be any combination of : White, Walks, Wright, jack, Everitt, Jones, Jaksch, with cameos by any of our bigger players just to mix it up : Rowe, Krooz, Phillips - heck even give Korchek a run.

If you must play Cas at CHF, get guys like 2E running past so he doesn't have to take a shot.

EDIT : assuming the rookie rules allow Korchek to play.

Other way. We need a 2nd key forward so Casboult can get more time up and around the ground where he plays his best footy. When he's the only key forward he cops the opposition defence. He plays his best football by far when he's able to move around and get his hands on the ball. It's why is so much a better player all round when he gets a run on the ball. He's not that good a player that he can handle the heat of multiple opposition attention.

One ruckman, supported by Casboult with Jaksch or Jones as the other key forward. We ALWAYS go alot better that way. First Collingwood game was an example of that and been the ame for a long time.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game ________: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #80 – July 03, 2016, 06:09:00 pm

Quote from: LP on July 03, 2016, 06:01:56 pm

Yet, having watched live and the replay, I'd have to say White was our most effective forward. If we'd been kicking half decently, or if Everitt had actually applied some physical contact, White could have easily had three or four more shots at goal within F50.

I thought Reid and Goldsack took too many easy marks and I wasnt sure of White's role...goalkicker or defensive forward........really missing Armfield IMO who creates forward pressure and we lacked that type of desperado to help keep the ball in the Forward 50.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game ________: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #81 – July 03, 2016, 06:15:52 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2016, 06:09:00 pm

I thought Reid and Goldsack took too many easy marks and I wasnt sure of White's role...goalkicker or defensive forward........really missing Armfield IMO who creates forward pressure and we lacked that type of desperado to help keep the ball in the Forward 50.

I think the marking targets were made look ordinary by the inability of the small forwards and Mids to pull the trigger on a shot for goal. We have a bunch of blokes who do not want the responsibility of kicking goals. I was shocked to see the likes of Lamb and Wright looking to dish off when they had time and space to snap the ball from within 25m. At AFL level time and space inside 25m is just two or three steps, if you need more time than that you need another career!

Re: Rd 15: Post Game ________: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #82 – July 03, 2016, 06:46:04 pm

Quote from: LP on July 03, 2016, 06:01:56 pm

Yet, having watched live and the replay, I'd have to say White was our most effective forward. If we'd been kicking half decently, or if Everitt had actually applied some physical contact, White could have easily had three or four more shots at goal within F50.

That was my observation as well. Bottom line is that we were two forwards down. Had Waite and Betts played instead of Casboult and Everitt we'd have outscored Rottingwood. We kept Rottingwood to a losing score but couldn't hit the scoreboard ourselves due to, simply, not having good enough forwards.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game ________: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #83 – July 03, 2016, 06:46:24 pm

Quote from: LP on July 03, 2016, 06:15:52 pm

I think the marking targets were made look ordinary by the inability of the small forwards and Mids to pull the trigger on a shot for goal. We have a bunch of blokes who do not want the responsibility of kicking goals. I was shocked to see the likes of Lamb and Wright looking to dish off when they had time and space to snap the ball from within 25m. At AFL level time and space inside 25m is just two or three steps, if you need more time than that you need another career!

Agree LP. We are gun shy and we need to be a lot more urgent, but at the same time remain composed, in front of goal. Looks like we have a bit of a confidence crisis to me. It's a fine line between confident to have a shot and blazing away in a trigger happy way I guess.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game Frustrations: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #84 – July 03, 2016, 07:18:22 pm

One thing that pleased me last night was the work that our players, particularly Ed Curnow, put into Levi Greenwood. In the past we have just let Murphy, Gibbs or Cripps deal with a hard tag but there seemed to be a definite plan to make things difficult for Greenwood. Twenty-two possessions and two goals must be one of the best performances by Gibbs when tagged and a lot of that is down to Curnow.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game ________: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #85 – July 03, 2016, 07:23:59 pm

Quote from: LP on July 03, 2016, 06:15:52 pm

I think the marking targets were made look ordinary by the inability of the small forwards and Mids to pull the trigger on a shot for goal. We have a bunch of blokes who do not want the responsibility of kicking goals. I was shocked to see the likes of Lamb and Wright looking to dish off when they had time and space to snap the ball from within 25m. At AFL level time and space inside 25m is just two or three steps, if you need more time than that you need another career!

Our marking forwards were made to look ordinary because our mids could not kick to advantage. If a forward had front position, they'd kick it on top of his head.
If a forward was leading to his left, they'd kick to his right.

The ball was almost never kicked out in front to our advantage inside 50. Can't blame the wind as there was none. Just simple skill errors.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game Frustrations: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #86 – July 03, 2016, 07:32:48 pm

Quote from: DJC on July 03, 2016, 07:18:22 pm

One thing that pleased me last night was the work that our players, particularly Ed Curnow, put into Levi Greenwood. In the past we have just let Murphy, Gibbs or Cripps deal with a hard tag but there seemed to be a definite plan to make things difficult for Greenwood. Twenty-two possessions and two goals must be one of the best performances by Gibbs when tagged and a lot of that is down to Curnow.

I thought Curnow did the job on Treloar but Pendlebury destroyed us ...Greenwood(23 possies/9tackles/one goal) did the job on Gibbs IMO and while Gibbs was reasonable I thought Greenwood intimidated him and reduced his effectiveness including a forearm to the face which Gibbs didnt respond hard enough to IMO.
I think Gibbs has been good but both he and Murphy need some help in the rough stuff dept and I reckon someone like Robbo out there last night might have made life easier for Gibbs.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game Frustrations: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #87 – July 03, 2016, 07:38:15 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2016, 07:32:48 pm

I thought Curnow did the job on Treloar but Pendlebury destroyed us ...Greenwood did the job on Gibbs IMO and while Gibbs was reasonable I thought Greenwood intimidated him and reduced his effectiveness including a forearm to the face which Gibbs didnt respond hard enough to IMO.
I think Gibbs has been good but both he and Murphy need some help in the rough stuff dept and I reckon someone like Robbo out there last night might have made life easier for Gibbs.

Bingo! Couldn't agree more, particularly re Robbo.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game Frustrations: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #88 – July 03, 2016, 07:41:21 pm

Everitt did a reasonable job on Sidebottom but it seems most here have idea of what his role was and expected him to kick goals.

Re: Rd 15: Post Game Frustrations: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #89 – July 03, 2016, 07:50:16 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on July 03, 2016, 07:41:21 pm

Everitt did a reasonable job on Sidebottom but it seems most here have idea of what his role was and expected him to kick goals.

I think we reasonably expect him to be like his 21 team mates re intensity, vigor and defensive ruthlessness. It aint personal. Some people just aint designed that way... there's a reason the Dishlickers and Fluffy Ducks didn't want him and now we can see why.