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Topic: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond (Read 67333 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #105 –
Quote from: mateinone – on
I think that is a lie that has become a 'known truth'.
I believe you could play an entire team of under 23s and they would be able to match it. Most often the players are going one for one against their older opponents and neither Weitering or Cripps look overwhelmed by elder opponents, regardless of who is around them.

I completely dismiss the notion that you need bigger older bodies in there. I agree you won't win a flag with just younger players, but I think you get more by building a team where the culture is completely reset and those from an alternate era have no influence on where the club heads.

I would rather Curnow or McKay or Silvagni in our forward line over Casboult every single time, even though Casboult would take more contested marks. If i had 3 spots I would put all three of them in and still leave Casboult out.

Build a team of young , brash, cocky antisocial footballers unburdened by the softly approach our elder players have taken to games for years. I don't want them to be role models to these younger guys, not now, not for 1 more day/game.

Just look what happened with GWS. It wasn't until they brought in some strong, experienced and talented older players that there young talented brigade began to understand direction/discipline. It's a balancing act. If you only have younger blokes it ends up being lambs to the slaughter, regardless of how talented they are, and they may in fact end up scarred and developing a culture of failure expectation/tolerance.

As frustrating as it is, I think we're going about it the right way. In fact, I suspect another big clean-out at year's end to complete the 'reset'.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #106 –
Nonetheless, on form, Thomas, White and Armfield can readily be swapped for Harry McKay, Palmer and Graham/Sheehan.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #107 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Nonetheless, on form, Thomas, White and Armfield can readily be swapped for Harry McKay, Palmer and Graham/Sheehan.

Yep
There are senior players we need to keep in the side but those on the fringe can make way.
 

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #108 –
When you look at the stats vs LY a few things stand out;

1/ Richmond significantly increased their tackle pressure - we didn't.
2/ Richmond had much more i50's [+30% on LY] which generated nearly 40% more scoring shots than LY. We were exactly the same as LY on these stats.
3/ Our defence was horrible - both midfield pressure, back half turnovers, and general defending. We conceded 20% more shots than we did LY. LY we were a hard team to score against, last night the Tigers basically had a winning score at half time!!

There wasn't any areas where you could see tangible improvement, we made a huge number of critical skill errors [many from senior players] and our team defence was ordinary.

Tactically I think we got smashed. Dusty dominated and it just didn't appear we were doing anything to curb his influence in the middle. He ran free around the ground and stoppages. Senior players and the coach need to take responsibility for this.

The youth vs experience argument will rage all year. My view from my playing days is you need a balance - getting physically smashed and intimidated each week, and getting smashed on the scoreboard, can scar players for life. But we need to find experienced players who can make a contribution [eg Wright] vs guys who are just making up the numbers [Thomas, Armfield, White].

I though Rowe was far from our worst, the spoil when he should have marked was probably the big clanger, but it wasn't Jack and Griffiths who did the damage - it was the midfielders and small forwards.

I've said before the only way we will be competitive is IF Gibbs, Murph, Cripps and Kruz all play well - last night Cripps was down and Gibbs was up and down. Murph was ordinary in the first half with some terrible clangers, but he battled back well. Given his layoff it was probably a good game from him. SPS might add into that mix because he certainly looks like he has the tools. Question will be how quickly he picks up the pace, fitness and physical side and the ability to impact for 4 quarters.

With the kids I really want to see more pressure. SPS laid an equal team high of 7, but half our team laid 14 tackles between - that is just unacceptable in modern footy and that has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with mindset.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #109 –
For re-building lists, look at St Kilda, Western Bulldogs, even Melbourne.

Carlton has never done it before - always gone for quick fixes and tried to win 10+ games in every season.

If you had asked any Western Bulldogs supporter at the start of 2015 if they would win a flag in 2016, you would have got a resounding no.  Turn arounds can come much quicker than most people imagine.

Hang tough

This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #110 –
Baggers wrote:
Just look what happened with GWS. It wasn't until they brought in some strong, experienced and talented older players that there young talented brigade began to understand direction/discipline.

Ward, Griffin, Shaw and Mumford stack up pretty well against Wright, Kerridge, Jones and Smedts.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #111 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Nonetheless, on form, Thomas, White and Armfield can readily be swapped for Harry McKay, Palmer and Graham/Sheehan.

We must remember it's only r1.

However, on yesterday's NBs form, Harry, Rhys and Nick should all be in consideration for promotion. Seems Gus is still being managed re game time so might be a few weeks away yet.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #112 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Baggers wrote:
Just look what happened with GWS. It wasn't until they brought in some strong, experienced and talented older players that there young talented brigade began to understand direction/discipline.

Ward, Griffin, Shaw and Mumford stack up pretty well against Wright, Kerridge, Jones and Smedts.

Think you'll find that at the end of this year, with a lot more salary space, we'll get better experienced boys. The hard thing for us as opposed to GWS is convincing serious experienced talent to actually come to us! GWS was seen as a real premiership contender based on talent.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #113 –
Thought the young blokes - on the whole - looked very good.

Sure, Marchbank made a few blunders but he was mightily under the pump all night.

Macreadie looked like he belonged ditto Pickett (should have had a run in the guts imo), SPS, SOJ, Plowman.

Charlie C. the only one who looked 'lost'. Another who could have been used in the middle or even down back to get him involved in the game.

Surprised more effort (any?) wasn't made to shut down Martin - couldn't even tell who was manning him most of the night. That is inexcusable imo.

Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #114 –
We should also note that despite conceding 83 points in H1 we were on the cusp of getting back into the game in Q3.

Which is remarkable in itself.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #115 –
Quote from: townsendcalling – on
Not sure how precise, deliberate and purposeful the Hawks looked after their superdraft in 2004, when they finished 14 out of 16 in 2005 and 11 out of 16 in 2006. We tend to forget that Brisbane had exceptionally lean years before the halcyon days, as did Hawthorn, as did Geelong etc etc etc. 

Ride the bumps and stay resilient!!

Yes, no doubt that's true. But I was referring to a much later stage of the Hawks evolution, the one with which Bolts would be intimately acquainted. He wasn't there in the early 2000's.

But I take your point.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #116 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Thought the young blokes - on the whole - looked very good.

Sure, Marchbank made a few blunders but he was mightily under the pump all night.

Macreadie looked like he belonged ditto Pickett (should have had a run in the guts imo), SPS, SOJ, Plowman.

Charlie C. the only one who looked 'lost'. Another who could have been used in the middle or even down back to get him involved in the game.

Surprised more effort (any?) wasn't made to shut down Martin - couldn't even tell who was manning him most of the night. That is inexcusable imo.

Martin scared the crap our of our blokes all night, we have serious issues regarding the lack of physicality in the team, even Cascoult didnt want to mix it with Martin......what made it worse is that even a hacker like Vlastuin was pushing our blokes around...
Agree on the kids, they all showed something....Marchbank was very good and he will learn from the turnovers.....Pickett is class, just needs some better players around him to supply more footy to him...

Wouldnt mind a few more Matty Wrights in the team...can lay a tackle, kicks straight and gives you something every week.....

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #117 –
Baggers wrote :
Think you'll find that at the end of this year, with a lot more salary space, we'll get better experienced boys.

Let's hope so, the only experienced player who has worked out for us in the last decade has been Judd.
You make a very good point, Carlton is just not seen as a desirable destination for better class 100+ game players and that will probably remain the case until we show some genuine improvement.
Meanwhile we have to trust in youngsters, it's much more risky than established talent and our record at identifying quality kids leaves a lot to be desired.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #118 –
Quote from: mateinone – on


I completely dismiss the notion that you need bigger older bodies in there.



Tell me you're kidding. Any coach, commentator or anyone with any knowledge of the game knows kids need bigger bodies out there for leadership, direction and thee take more of the physical heat. Even the two new sides. GC and GWS, got big bodies in. Rebuilds do need some experience and big bodies. Key is having the right ones.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #119 –
I'm out. Enjoy your miserable lives.
"We are a club in a hurry"

#united #reset