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Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #75 –
Okay I get what you are both saying, but name the high performance teams, within any industry that do this? Compare whatever numbers you have to the groups that have smaller leadership groups.

People don't need to be nominated leaders to lead DJC. Take Hawthorn during their peak, or Geelong, we didn't see 14 players in their leadership groups despite the fact they had so many senior statesman that might have been able to make a difference.

I can only draw on my own experiences and append that to any knowledge of have of leaderships in different organisations inside & outside of sport. I have no other magic wand that can tell me whether that is correct within Carlton..

But using that information that I have, I still cannot buy into 20% leaders and I do wholly disagree that anyone capable of making a difference as a leader at the club should be in the leadership group.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out this year, I think the reality is we are unlikely to really know. I hope the decision is the right  one, but it is one area I will say I am critical of the club... I think in general my vibe around most things to do with this reset of the club is a positive one, but unfortunately I don't feel the same way about this decision
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

 

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #76 –
MIO.

There's no one size fits all wrt leadership. I suspect this is a spike in leadership numbers which is unlikely to continue for long. I also suspect that there is a certain amount of cover in those numbers - e.g Doc is already sidelined, so that's already down to 7 max on match day. I can't see many games where all 7 of the remaining guys will play together.

Other things that Bolton et al might be thinking :
- consistency of message / reward for effort, as DJC states
- possible accelerated development of our youngsters
- game time management for older guys like Murph and Simmo
- input from professional leadership consultants / staff
- player-led position on leadership (happy playing group is a good playing group)
- etc.

IMO, a storm in a tea cup. If we bomb this season, it won't be because of too many leaders.

Or it could just be like the Public Service. Lot of "leaders", but in reality, only a couple of heads and a couple of brains.

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #77 –
Pretty obvious it's a transition period set up.

Simmo and Smurf on the way out.

Tractor - reward for effort. 28yo now.

Ed C. - role model par excellence. Legend. 28yo now.

Doc, Plow and Crippa - the future.

Who really GAF that the Tiges had 3 only in their group......
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #78 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Who really GAF that the Tiges had 3 only in their group......

I reckon any thinking Tigers supporters would, if that's not an oxymoron.

Having only three players worthy of the leadership group could be a portent of troubled times ahead.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #79 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Pretty obvious it's a transition period set up.

Simmo and Smurf on the way out.

Tractor - reward for effort. 28yo now.

Ed C. - role model par excellence. Legend. 28yo now.

Doc, Plow and Crippa - the future.

Who really GAF that the Tiges had 3 only in their group......

They're the benchmark at the moment, on and off the field.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #82 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I reckon any thinking Tigers supporters would, if that's not an oxymoron.

Having only three players worthy of the leadership group could be a portent of troubled times ahead.

That has to be at best a wildly presumptuous assumption.
3 leaders for 42 or so players. That actually seems to be a very good number.

I hear what you are saying Paul, I just don't particularly agree.
I think there are fairly good reasons to limit the number of leaders and have the message come through a small group of voices. Natural leaders will take it upon themselves to ensure their colleagues are living those values and they don't all need titles.

I also think the quality of leaders and their ability to get the message through to the group is a greater deal that what perhaps you do Paul. I agree it won't be the defining reason of our success or lack of it this year, but I think it makes a difference and is something we should be aiming to get right.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #83 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Agree, they made the most of their luck last year.
Care to elaborate on the this "luck" thingy? If it wins you flags, we need get us some of that stuff stat!
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #84 –
Quote from: mateinone – on
That has to be at best a wildly presumptuous assumption.
3 leaders for 42 or so players. That actually seems to be a very good number.

I hear what you are saying Paul, I just don't particularly agree.
I think there are fairly good reasons to limit the number of leaders and have the message come through a small group of voices. Natural leaders will take it upon themselves to ensure their colleagues are living those values and they don't all need titles.

I also think the quality of leaders and their ability to get the message through to the group is a greater deal that what perhaps you do Paul. I agree it won't be the defining reason of our success or lack of it this year, but I think it makes a difference and is something we should be aiming to get right.

Yes, no doubt there's more than one leadership style, and more than one theory on how to best approach it. I really don't think it's a biggie one way or the other.

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #85 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Care to elaborate on the this "luck" thingy? If it wins you flags, we need get us some of that stuff stat!

Every team that wins a flag needs some luck. I think with the Tiges, they had a great run with injuries, and they also recruited the missing puzzle pieces at the same time. Balme, Caracella, Nankervis, Prestia and Caddy.

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #86 –
Quote from: mateinone – on
That has to be at best a wildly presumptuous assumption.
3 leaders for 42 or so players. That actually seems to be a very good number.

I hear what you are saying Paul, I just don't particularly agree.
I think there are fairly good reasons to limit the number of leaders and have the message come through a small group of voices. Natural leaders will take it upon themselves to ensure their colleagues are living those values and they don't all need titles.

I also think the quality of leaders and their ability to get the message through to the group is a greater deal that what perhaps you do Paul. I agree it won't be the defining reason of our success or lack of it this year, but I think it makes a difference and is something we should be aiming to get right.

I had 45 staff and seven managers reporting to me and my 2iC.  That worked extremely well.  Of course, a footy team is not the same as a work organisation but leadership principles still apply.

Limiting the number of leaders is not conducive to good leadership.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #87 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Every team that wins a flag needs some luck. I think with the Tiges, they had a great run with injuries, and they also recruited the missing puzzle pieces at the same time. Balme, Caracella, Nankervis, Prestia and Caddy.
It had alot more to do with the bit in bold. Its utter nonsense to suggest they got lucky and are no good. They proved the old saying, a champion team will always beat a team of champions. As Bill Bilichick says, "Do Your Job", the Tigers role players certainly did theirs.
PS I hate em as much as the next bloke, but fair suck of the sauce bottle lads.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #88 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
It had alot more to do with the bit in bold. Its utter nonsense to suggest they got lucky and are no good. They proved the old saying, a champion team will always beat a team of champions. As Bill Bilichick says, "Do Your Job".

Dude, I'm with you. My position is that they are a very good team, but they did have some luck, no question in my mind. Every team that has ever won a flag has some luck.

Re: Leadership Group 2018

Reply #89 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I had 45 staff and seven managers reporting to me and my 2iC.  That worked extremely well.  Of course, a footy team is not the same as a work organisation but leadership principles still apply.

Limiting the number of leaders is not conducive to good leadership.

I disagree, but as I said each has there own thoughts based on their experiences.
My managers ran about 25 to a team with usually 2-3 team leaders depending on the team leaders and complexity of the teams.
Again that worked very well, but that is why I say each person's experience.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL