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Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #15 –
Quote from: LP – on
I read the highlighted part as you basically holding a mindset that AFLX is in someway competing with the main game.
It's using our senior players so it will be effecting them and I'm hoping it won't be adversely effective on our main season.


Quote
I might be wrong but that doesn't seem consistent with MIO's position that AFLW is a different sport he just isn't interested in, have I read MIO post wrongly?

If it's a different game/sport then I would think it's not in competition by definition, if over time the newbies garnish media support that is a problem for the AFL, not for AFLW or AFLX.

I'm not trying to force AFLW or AFLX down peoples throat, people are free to choose. But I believe it's clearly wrong to take a line of argument that compares either game to their AFL predecessor. It would be like comparing chess to chequers, only the board they play on is the same!

In particular my position on this stuff has been turned round by watching the WFA in the UK. It's almost a better game to watch than the Premier League, no fat-heads, no diving, no interruptions for video reviews, no players just there for the money, and yet the WFA game is full of skills and speed! No wonder clubs like Chelsea, Manchester and Liverpool are heavily invested in the WFA.

I think this is self evident, it's about using a resource to it's fullest extent.

Shrug shoulders.

I don't know what you read to end up with this but meh for me the main allure of Carlton is watching our team play afl footy and whilst I'm happy for our women's team and wish them every success it is merely a detail.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
It's using our senior players so it will be effecting them and I'm hoping it won't be adversely effective on our main season.


Shrug shoulders.

I don't know what you read to end up with this but meh for me the main allure of Carlton is watching our team play afl footy and whilst I'm happy for our women's team and wish them every success it is merely a detail.


I don't have daughters, but I can understand why some people are so frustrated with the way women in sport are perceived.

I think they deserve every bit of attention they get without the need to judge them relative to men. I do not see them as halftime entertainment or a curtain raiser there just to fill in the blanks. I'm sure you don't mean to infer that they are just a sideshow.

I see the elite in the girls, even if it is a different kind of elite to the men!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #17 –
Quote from: LP – on

I don't have daughters, but I can understand why some people are so frustrated with the way women in sport are perceived.

I think they deserve every bit of attention they get without the need to judge them relative to men. I do not see them as halftime entertainment or a curtain raiser there just to fill in the blanks. I'm sure you don't mean to infer that they are just a sideshow.

I see the elite in the girls, even if it is a different kind of elite to the men!

The problem LP is that most people only have X percent of their time to dedicate to their watching of sports. You get the odd person who watches everything they can, but for most people that isn't a reality.
It is why you wont' find many people who watch the AFL, SANFL, VFL, WAFL  etc. It isn't about being a sideshow, but it can be about competing with the quality of the sport. If the best players in the VFL all started playing in another competition it is quite conceivable that people will switch leagues to watch the best players. Not all, but a percentage will for sure, because for a lot of people it is about the quality of the skills on display. The same happens in soccer, with people watching a club like PSG this year, that previously would have paid them little or zero attention. They keep their team they support, but find themselves tuning into the top teams as well.

With me at the moment, I watch the EPL & AFL, I have an interest in the tennis slams, an interest of course in Olympics, a little in the cricket and now with Ben Simmons I am following the NBA more than I have since the 90s. I also have an interest in the men's & women's soccer, but I admit that if the Australian Men were stronger I would pay less attention to the Matildas and openly state that I know far more Australian Men soccer players than I do women of any nationality.
 
You are right, women do deserve to be more than a sideshow, but with many sports competing for corporate and public dollars, the spectacle must entertaining in it's own right, not 'just as a women's sport'. For some AFLW is absolutely doing that already & there is a serious chance that more people will watch an AFLW game than any other non-olympic event in women's sports history this year... which is amazing!!! But the level of football does need to get much better, the women need to develop much higher skills and athleticism. It matters not to me that most are not full time professionals, because that is the same for most Olympians who need primary jobs.

To me (in the limited amount I have seen) the ball moves slowly there just isn't the intensity & the sport is not any more exciting than watching a local game between 2 teams I don't know. I also don't get the way that commentators tip toe around the issue of players being not fit enough and overweight. If it was male players in any sport they would call it out and surely that should be the case as well, because the fitter the players the more successful the clubs, the better the spectacle etc.. To make this game successful, I think most of the women have a fair way to go with their fitness. Hopefully the chances will be visible every year, I think they will be.

It is of course possible that women will get to an elite level, but I think it is ignorant to the reality if anyone believes that AFLW skills/fitness are not a LONG way from being where it will be in 5 or so years. In 5 years I am hoping the players and public can come back, watch footage of these games and say, yes they were pioneers, but the level of the game was average. That would then mean that women have taken a huge leap.

Whilst it might not be useful to compare the game to the men's game, there is something to be said to comparing women at the top level of other sports and where they might sit in comparison to the men.

Below are some of how I would compare the top females and where they might sit if playing in men's leagues.

I think the Matildas would beat a lot of male league sides at maybe 2 levels below the A-League, perhaps 3?
The top women tennis players could likely beat players outside perhaps the top 600-700 players in the world
I would think the Australian Women's Basketball team could also be competitive in metropolitan division 1 leagues.
The current level of women's football I don't think would get anywhere near a division 2 league team or any top 6-8 team in a Victorian country league. I think in all honestly they would struggle to finish outside the bottom 4 in most Under 18 competitions.

Now I raise this comparison, because I do believe that it shows that if the women can train to an elite level they should be able to get to the stage where perhaps they could challenge at those levels, their fitness alone would be enough to ensure that they could run a lot of those teams off their feet, as well as their better coaching levels etc. In 5 years, perhaps 10, then women might achieve that level of maturity. If they do.. the spectacle will be much better, the movement of the ball will be much quicker and then I believe they will have a sport quite capable of standing on it's own 2 feet.

Anyway, as I have said... I think that the sport will take off, I think it is great that this could create more pathways for more women to become full time professional athletes, but it is important to make sure they are being assessed correctly, especially internally, because if the sport stays at the level it currently is... I think it might struggle to sustain a full paying public's interest.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #18 –
Quote from: LP – on
On a separate issue, has anyone picked up that there is some innuendo in the media about bad blood between Tayla Harris an the Lions? I noticed that even one of the AFLW captains picked this as the one season game to watch, Tayla playing against her old side. It reminds me of Marc Murphy's debut against the Lions, they told the world they would smash him and they did! :o

I haven't read anything to suggest that, but personally i think it is to be expected. Harris was the Lions marquee player. Plastered all over their merchandise, the face of the club.

Would you be happy if Vescio just up and left?

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I actually enjoy the women's competition and I'm looking forward to the start of the season.
Towards the end of last year it became less of a novelty for me and more an extension of the club in a similar manner to the VFL side.
It was very much "Carlton" for me with the same desire for a win as you would experience watching the men's side...but to each his own.

With that in mind for those that are interested... what format do we want to use for the sites "best and fairest competition."
We just did a 3,2,1 last year and it seemed to throw up a well-deserved winner but some expressed the view they'd prefer a system similar to the one we use for the men's competition.
Anyone keen to take it on as a project.

If its just a 3,2,1 its an easy project to take on and i could do it.
If its more convoluted, my interest in it is less enthusiastic.

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #20 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
If its just a 3,2,1 its an easy project to take on and i could do it.
If its more convoluted, my interest in it is less enthusiastic.

I think it might be best to just go with simple the 3,2,1 again.
Keep it simple and easy to manage.
There were probably only about a dozen of us voting last year (less for some games) and it wasn't too difficult to update.

If you don't mind... then it's your baby Kruddler. :D

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I think it might be best to just go with simple the 3,2,1 again.
Keep it simple and easy to manage.
There were probably only about a dozen of us voting last year (less for some games) and it wasn't too difficult to update.

If you don't mind... then it's your baby Kruddler. :D

 :)

Hopefully I will get to see a few games - no TV at the moment  :(
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #22 –
Quote from: DJC – on
:)

Hopefully I will get to see a few games - no TV at the moment  :(

I just don't remember whether that was an issue with us last year in the B&F voting....
Not the no TV at all (hope that gets fixed DJC ;)), but the coverage on free to air TV.
Hard to vote if you don't see the game.

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #23 –
This week's game is on free to air TV, Channel 7, in Victoria for what it is worth. I don't know how many games will be on ANY sort of TV this year, though. I KNOW I will not see all of the games live, although I hope to see more than I did last year.
I am taking my elder daughter on Friday; straight from school to the ground. How we will cope with the parking will be a question, but it often is.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #24 –
Quote from: LP – on

I don't have daughters, but I can understand why some people are so frustrated with the way women in sport are perceived.

I think they deserve every bit of attention they get without the need to judge them relative to men. I do not see them as halftime entertainment or a curtain raiser there just to fill in the blanks. I'm sure you don't mean to infer that they are just a sideshow.

I see the elite in the girls, even if it is a different kind of elite to the men!

Its a different competition to watch that is for sure, and I meant in no way to paint them as a side show.

The main event will always be the main event.

Like MIO my time is divided into the what I can follow and what I can't, and largely that time is dictated by a female which has a tinge of irony to it (my wife).

Occasionally she prevents me from seeing the AFL seniors.


"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Its a different competition to watch that is for sure, and I meant in no way to paint them as a side show.

The main event will always be the main event.

Like MIO my time is divided into the what I can follow and what I can't, and largely that time is dictated by a female which has a tinge of irony to it (my wife).

Occasionally she prevents me from seeing the AFL seniors.

That's easy fixed. ;)

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I think it might be best to just go with simple the 3,2,1 again.
Keep it simple and easy to manage.
There were probably only about a dozen of us voting last year (less for some games) and it wasn't too difficult to update.

If you don't mind... then it's your baby Kruddler. :D

Yep. A handful of 3,2,1's will be easy to update for 7 rounds (+ finals?)

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #27 –
Team for tonight:

Quote
CARLTON

B: J.Hosking 11, D.Hardiman 31, L.Brazzale 12
HB: G.Pound 6, A.Downie 30, B.Davey 1
C: S.Audley 26
HF: T.Harris 22, K.Harrington 9, N.Stevens 21
F: M.Gay 8, D.Vescio 3, S.Li 35
Foll: B.Moody 16, S.Hosking 10, K.Loynes 2
I/C: K.Shierlaw 25, L.Arnell 13, G.Gee 19, N.Plane 32, K.Gillespie-Jones 5
Emg: T.Lucas-Rodd 18, S.Last 7

It's good to see so many of our new players debuting. Interesting to see Lucas-Rodd as an emergency, she was more than handy last year. Also seems to have been a bit of a fall from grace for Maddie Keryk, was VC last year and not even in our starting lineup this year. I hope she fights her way back in.

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #28 –
Quote from: Navy Maven – on
Team for tonight:

It's good to see so many of our new players debuting. Interesting to see Lucas-Rodd as an emergency, she was more than handy last year. Also seems to have been a bit of a fall from grace for Maddie Keryk, was VC last year and not even in our starting lineup this year. I hope she fights her way back in.

I just heard on 774 that around 50 players will debut this round.  The flipside is that 50 players from last season will miss out.  There was also discussion about players being told to get fitter and lose weight.

I heard Lauren Arnell on the radio last week and she said that the players are much fitter and stronger this season.  She said that the first season's experience opened their eyes to the demands of professional sport (perhaps even some from other professional sports) and everyone has worked much harder.

Expect a faster, harder game.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!
 

Re: AFLW Rd 1: Carlton vs Collingwood at Ikon Park

Reply #29 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
That's easy fixed. ;)

Shes as Navy as I am Kruddler, and actually accompanies me to games, but lets face it, her priorities don't lie in watching footy and sometimes she makes those priorities mine.

Give and take after all!
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson