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Topic: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb) (Read 74325 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #225 –
Quote from: LP – on
Yet after 2010 they didn't win a flag, and Malthouse got the kibosh in 2012!

Dane Swan, Scott Pendlebury, Dale Thomas, Luke Ball, Dayne Beams, Travis Cloke, Heath Shaw, Leon Davis, Steele Sidebottom were all at the top of their game, supported by Didak, Brown, Krakour and Jolly. It wasn't a bad list!

They probably should have won 2011 and 2012 as well, it not unreasonable to think the ridiculously heavy workload game plan was the reason they didn't!

Malthouse didn't coach anywhere in 2012 - he finished up at the Pies at the end of 2011.

I think the Pies lost the 2011 GF partly because Mick had a bad hair day in the coaches box, and partly because of all the emotions regarding the handover to Buckley. I doubt it had anything to do with the players being tired.

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #226 –
Malthouse's last game for Collingwood was the 2011 grandfinal.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #227 –
The AFL coaching premiership average is roughly 4 flags from 500 games, Malthouse got 3 flags from over 700!

Sometimes stats can be deceptive, I doubt it applies in this case!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #228 –
Quote from: LP – on
The AFL coaching premiership average is roughly 4 flags from 500 games, Malthouse got 3 flags from over 700!

Sometimes stats can be deceptive, I doubt it applies in this case!

Wait where is that based on?
How many coaches have coached for 500 games and how many coaches have won 4 flags?

That seems a strange stat that needs more info
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

 

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #229 –
Quote from: mateinone – on
Wait where is that based on?
How many coaches have coached for 500 games and how many coaches have won 4 flags?

That seems a strange stat that needs more info

It's not a strange stat it is just a stat, for coaches with around 500 AFL/VFL games or more the average is 4 flags, it's is a stat without bias or subjectivity.

Like there is only one coach to make it to 300 Home and Away games without a flag!

AFL Coaches Tables

Prior to that last Pies flag, MM had one of the worst coaching averages in AFL/VFL history for a premiership coach with so many games under his belt!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #230 –
Quote from: LP – on
The AFL coaching premiership average is roughly 4 flags from 500 games, Malthouse got 3 flags from over 700!

Sometimes stats can be deceptive, I doubt it applies in this case!

This discussion within a discussion started because you made a comment about Malthouse being too focussed on tagging and destroying player morale. The first point cannot be true if we look at the Pies 2011 season, and the second is pure conjecture. The Pies players seem to like him well enough. I'm not sure what his flag / game ratio has to do with this discussion, but anyway........

I guess we should be very worried about Bolton, because when it comes to being defence minded, he could be Mick's evil twin.........

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #231 –
All discussion that involved some form of opinion without a suitable measure or test are opinion.

That is why the stats are relevant, they are an objective measure of one coach against their peers.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #232 –
Im not usually a naysayer but ......

I dont know how much to make of our wins. A win is a win and ill take winning ugly anyday but my biggest concern after 2 jlt games is that if both the aints and dawks had of kicked straight, we would have lost both games comfortably.

Im happy and excited at our list and our continued progress but ive still got a few reservations of how far we  have actually come...... thus far.
Too little and Way too late. Pull your fingers out boys!!

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #233 –
Quote from: bigblue – on
Im not usually a naysayer but ......

I dont know how much to make of our wins. A win is a win and ill take winning ugly anyday but my biggest concern after 2 jlt games is that if both the aints and dawks had of kicked straight, we would have lost both games comfortably.

Im happy and excited at our list and our continued progress but ive still got a few reservations of how far we  have actually come...... thus far.

Yes, agree, but it's still early days. Cam Bruce stated quite clearly that he wasn't happy that too much of the game was played in our back half. As I said earlier, still much work to be done. But there's little bits of improvement here and there, which simply has to continue.

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #234 –
Quote from: LP – on
It's not a strange stat it is just a stat, for coaches with around 500 AFL/VFL games or more the average is 4 flags, it's is a stat without bias or subjectivity.

Like there is only one coach to make it to 300 Home and Away games without a flag!

AFL Coaches Tables

Prior to that last Pies flag, MM had one of the worst coaching averages in AFL/VFL history for a premiership coach with so many games under his belt!

Okay so for coaches above 700 games the average number of flags is 3

So it is a strange state you are taking from the history of coaches a pool of 7 and saying their average is, it hardly counts and then there is coaching in the modern era with the number of teams compared to the era of 12 teams.

Most coaches that have a career coaching record above 50% have a good record as a coach, those above 60% are elite.

I am not a fan of Malthouse, but he was successful at the Bulldogs, Eagles and Collingwood, he was just completely awful with us
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #235 –
When two all time great coaches fail at your club it's obvious where the fault is.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #236 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
When two all time great coaches fail at your club it's obvious where the fault is.

And extra credit should be given to the one coach who achieved even modest success, despite the crippling dysfunctionality pervading the entire organisation.

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #237 –
Quote from: mateinone – on
Simmo on the other hand was bloody awful.
Simmo started the last few years in ordinary form (preseason). Once the whips get cracking in Rnd 1 at the G, Simmo will be the Simmo we know and love (well at least I love him).
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #238 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Simmo started the last few years in ordinary form (preseason). Once the whips get cracking in Rnd 1 at the G, Simmo will be the Simmo we know and love (well at least I love him).

There isn't a Carlton fan anywhere that doesn't love Simmo, and everything he's done for the club, everything he's achieved, and everything he represents. But he should have retired at the end of 2016. Every player reaches the end at some point, and his last couple of seasons unfortunately represent diminishing returns, at least IMO.  

Re: JLT 2018 - Carlton v Hawthorn (Sat 10th Feb)

Reply #239 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Simmo started the last few years in ordinary form (preseason). Once the whips get cracking in Rnd 1 at the G, Simmo will be the Simmo we know and love (well at least I love him).

Agree.....with no Docherty he will be more important doing the rebounding, Richmond with their fleet of small forwards might get him to gear a bit earlier than usual.