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Re: Team selection disection

Reply #90 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
I think you'll find that he's cleaned up considerably in that area and hit most targets recently, in fact he's improved that much that his disposal is now very close to average. :o ;) :)

Came OShea hits targets in the VFL, hardly makes a mistake and I thought he had improved, attacks and defends not too bad at senior level but his disposal has been poor, the same skill level fault that got him the boot from Port resurfaced with senior pressure vs North. Kerridge is the same IMO, looks ok at VFL level with less pressure but will be exposed at senior level.
You are either a good kick/good decision maker or you are poor IMO and if its not fixed in your first couple of seasons then its going to be the same through the career.
Kerridge is a more hardened AFL body and will stop the bleeding a bit but you have to ask is it worth playing him  or better getting games into kids like Dow and putting up with some big losses....or does that do more harm to Dow ?...I dont know and it probably depends on the kids themselves as some have the maturity and some dont when you throw them in the deep end.

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #91 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Kerridge is a more hardened AFL body and will stop the bleeding a bit but you have to ask is it worth playing him  or better getting games into kids like Dow and putting up with some big losses....or does that do more harm to Dow ?...I dont know and it probably depends on the kids themselves as some have the maturity and some dont when you throw them in the deep end.

Are you prepared to risk the kids by throwing them in the deep end, not knowing if they will handle the situation or not?

The answer to this question has nothing to do with potential or ability, it's a learning curve. The problem we have at the moment is that we have almost not role models on the field, nobody sharing the load with the kids.

The world stands on the shoulders of those who came before us, AFL is no different! ;)

Throw the kids in the deep end and ask them to sort themselves out, without some senior structure or previous knowledge in support, and you can end up with a team of flat earthers! :o  imho, the deep end survivor plan is just another "Lord of the Flies" scenario, and that won't take us anywhere fast, it won't deliver any consistency, and it won't be repeatable.

We need a structure that churns out 20 to 30 AFL ready 2nd or 3rd year players in a sensible time frame. Surely standing on the shoulders of someone who has come before them makes sense regardless of the individuals capacity to deal with situations! Isn't that what you do with your kids?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #92 –
Quote from: LP – on
Are you prepared to risk the kids by throwing them in the deep end, not knowing if they will handle the situation or not?

The answer to this question has nothing to do with potential or ability, it's a learning curve. The problem we have at the moment is that we have almost not role models on the field, nobody sharing the load with the kids.

The world stands on the shoulders of those who came before us, AFL is no different! ;)

Throw the kids in the deep end and ask them to sort themselves out, without some senior structure or previous knowledge in support, and you can end up with a team of flat earthers! :o  imho, the deep end survivor plan is just another "Lord of the Flies" scenario, and that won't take us anywhere fast, it won't deliver any consistency, and it won't be repeatable.

We need a structure that churns out 20 to 30 AFL ready 2nd or 3rd year players in a sensible time frame. Surely standing on the shoulders of someone who has come before them makes sense regardless of the individuals capacity to deal with situations! Isn't that what you do with your kids?

Hodge, Lewis etc you can throw in the deep end and they handle it and become massive players for their club and quickly, Jonathan Brown was another, just a hard unit at 16 playing vs men down at Warrnambool, , Voss was another, the Scott boys, Joel Selwood, I wont count Gary Ablett jr as he was an exceptional talent.....Sticks was another who thrived as a young man being captain, Ricciuto another.....there is a common theme though, these players were mentally tough for what ever reason and were young men not young boys....we get too many boys...

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #93 –
Kennedy will be very good for us....

but too many pipsqueaks, agreed.

Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #94 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Hodge, Lewis etc you can throw in the deep end and they handle it and become massive players for their club and quickly, Jonathan Brown was another, just a hard unit at 16 playing vs men down at Warrnambool, , Voss was another, the Scott boys, Joel Selwood, I wont count Gary Ablett jr as he was an exceptional talent.....Sticks was another who thrived as a young man being captain, Ricciuto another.....there is a common theme though, these players were mentally tough for what ever reason and were young men not young boys....we get too many boys...

Sticks was 25 when he entered AFL.

Hodge and Lewis survived and became stars, but they were far from being superheroes on debut, they took some time and I contest they weren't thrown in the deep end like our kids. They had Crawford, Chick, Lonie, Harford, Bateman, Dixon and a host of bits players surrounding them including some serious KPP options.

Jonathon Brown had as KPP role models Lynch, Bradshaw, Charman, White, Leppitsch and as general role models Scott, Scott, Johnston, Power, Pyke, Voss, Black, Akermanis, Lappin and Headland who were all established before he arrived! Hardly the deep end!

Ablett Jnr had in support Chapman, Ling, Wojinski and started with Enright, Corey, Johnston, Kelly, Bartel, etc, etc,. Most of them were still there and established when Selwood started five years later. Hardly deep end stuff is it?

I thought Ricciutto might be a good example of a surviver, but that doesn't stack up either. He had McGuinness, Bickley, Jarman and a host of others established when he arrived. Role models a plenty!

There isn't a single average player in that list though EB1, they are all extraordinary players and they all had far more support around them than our current kids!

It makes a huge difference, the situations are barely comparable!

They all played alongside significant mentors, we have a bunch of kids playing alongside peers!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #95 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Hodge, Lewis etc you can throw in the deep end and they handle it and become massive players for their club and quickly, Jonathan Brown was another, just a hard unit at 16 playing vs men down at Warrnambool, , Voss was another, the Scott boys, Joel Selwood, I wont count Gary Ablett jr as he was an exceptional talent.....Sticks was another who thrived as a young man being captain, Ricciuto another.....there is a common theme though, these players were mentally tough for what ever reason and were young men not young boys....we get too many boys...


Hmmm.

I think you are ignoring the environments that these guys all started playing football in granted they are tough as nails, but sometimes the difference between looking tough and being tough is simply being taught how to handle yourself on field.

Even our own Patrick Cripps had the benefit of having Chris Judd  even if it was a short time.

Anyway going back to the question of Kerridge its a simple equation.

Is the team playing like it lacks belief in its ability to compete?  For me, certain players are (they are learners).  That means that they need someone who can help them walk a bit taller, and IMHO, Kerridge is one of those players.


"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #98 –
No doubt having Judd around in his development years helped Cripps to some extent....but they didn't play together a great deal... which surprised me, because we even had a thread about Judd holding Cripps back.

http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=2167.0



Re: Team selection disection

Reply #99 –
Playing is just a generalisation of being a team-mate, it's not just the game day is it?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #100 –
It was Judd's influence that got Cripps motivated to hire a coach to help with his speed one off season.

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #101 –
Quote from: deags – on
It was Judd's influence that got Cripps motivated to hire a coach to help with his speed one off season.

Obviously a fairly average coach.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #102 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on

Hmmm.

I think you are ignoring the environments that these guys all started playing football in granted they are tough as nails, but sometimes the difference between looking tough and being tough is simply being taught how to handle yourself on field.

Even our own Patrick Cripps had the benefit of having Chris Judd  even if it was a short time.

Anyway going back to the question of Kerridge its a simple equation.

Is the team playing like it lacks belief in its ability to compete?  For me, certain players are (they are learners).  That means that they need someone who can help them walk a bit taller, and IMHO, Kerridge is one of those players.

If we are relying on Kerridge to add leadership and hardness then we are in trouble.....when he has the footy it wont be long before the other team get it back, thats the bottom line and why he plays VFL....
We lack depth in the middle tier age bracket, those mid age senior players are not good enough and thats one of our major problems, no seven man defense anymore and a high banana factor means big floggings when the kids tire..
Look at the reality, people want the likes of Kerridge, Matt Shaw in the team...not to win the game but to prevent massive losses.....we might as well go back to stacking the backline and playing negative footy again...
 

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #103 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Obviously a fairly average coach.

Cripps acceleration has certainly improved significantly from his first season, top speed won't really be affected.

But isn't it the first 3m to 5m that really count for an inside mid, after that he should be dishing off to an outside runner!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Team selection disection

Reply #104 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
If we are relying on Kerridge to add leadership and hardness then we are in trouble.....when he has the footy it wont be long before the other team get it back, thats the bottom line and why he plays VFL....
We lack depth in the middle tier age bracket, those mid age senior players are not good enough and thats one of our major problems, no seven man defense anymore and a high banana factor means big floggings when the kids tire..
Look at the reality, people want the likes of Kerridge, Matt Shaw in the team...not to win the game but to prevent massive losses.....we might as well go back to stacking the backline and playing negative footy again...

Do we have an alternative at the moment :(

What you point out is exactly right....that mid age/experience group is basically not up to it.
They provide little to the youngsters in terms of support because they're not secure in their own positions

...an ongoing problem ::)