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Topic: Our list - what we have and what we need (Read 25889 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Judging improvement becomes clouded when youre impatient ;)

Not really....you look at the results, ladder and percentages and it's pretty obvious.
Have we improved in the last three years?
We're younger...that's about it!

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Not really....you look at the results, ladder and percentages and it's pretty obvious.
Have we improved in the last three years?
We're younger...that's about it!
What about all the green shoots?
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #19 –
Quote from: deags – on
My one concern with that side as listed is McKay.
Sure we haven't seen enough of the kid, and I'm not saying he couldn't be the next Lance Franklin, but he just doesn't seem to have the mongrel or "in and hard at it" that I'd expect from a kid who is sitting in the 2s, wanting to make it as a professional AFL player.

I agree deags.
Harry has done zilch so far this season. Kerr is showing more key forward potential than Harry.
Not so sure about Kerrs ruck work though.
I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #20 –
Quote from: sandsmere – on
I agree deags.
Harry has done zilch so far this season. Kerr is showing more key forward potential than Harry.
Not so sure about Kerrs ruck work though.

I think at this stage it's Kerr by some margin as far as F50 roles go, and he's rucked for an extended period in the VFL. But you'd have to think that when or if McKay switches on he's got the physical attributes, besides being big he's quick and agile for his size.

Will the Twins ever succeed while they are split?

Is Mckay a bit of a Daniher, all size and leap with not so much physical presence, or does he have a bit of mongrel?

Long term Kerr could be our Taylor Walker, but can we afford to have Kerr and Silvagni in the same side?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #21 –
Quote from: sandsmere – on
I agree deags.
Harry has done zilch so far this season. Kerr is showing more key forward potential than Harry.
Not so sure about Kerrs ruck work though.

What a crock, the VFL hasn't even started ff!

We got flooged a few weeks back in practice, suggesting forwards had limited supply then last week we faced the reigning premiers....harry got 2, kerr got 1.

Harry turned 20 in December.

Contrast to Daniher.

Was a spud until 2015 aged 21. But even in 2014, they simply played him, played him played him....imo that's what they should be doing with Harry, just play him.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #22 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
What a crock, the VFL hasn't even started ff!

We got flooged a few weeks back in practice, suggesting forwards had limited supply then last week we faced the reigning premiers....harry got 2, kerr got 1.

Harry turned 20 in December.

Contrast to Daniher.

Was a spud until 2015 aged 21. But even in 2014, they simply played him, played him played him....imo that's what they should be doing with Harry, just play him.

We don't know what sort of leg up Daniher has been given and any comparisons to him are fraught with danger IMHO.

Whatever it takes and all that jazz etc.

McKay needs to be looked at based on HIM, not on what others have done.

Irrespective, with our key position stocks, and our likelihood for success, it might be that he is simply thinking he will be given a spot and that mentality might result in us making sure players earn their stripes.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #23 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
What a crock, the VFL hasn't even started ff!

We got flooged a few weeks back in practice, suggesting forwards had limited supply then last week we faced the reigning premiers....harry got 2, kerr got 1.

Harry turned 20 in December.

Contrast to Daniher.

Was a spud until 2015 aged 21. But even in 2014, they simply played him, played him played him....imo that's what they should be doing with Harry, just play him.

Your points suggest Harry should be left developing in the VFL, we don't have any of the ready made KPFs to support him in his development like Daniher did. Daniher was able to run around in the AFL as a virtual non-contributor for 2 or 3 seasons, do we have that luxury?

I think until some of the senior heads role, we cannot afford the luxury of sending the kids to the slaughter!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #24 –
Kerr is ready for a run I think, not consistent enough, but consistent enough of the choices available. You won't get four quarter efforts, you will get cameos for two quarters. If those quarters can be the 2nd and 3rd quarters, this may prove effective enough.

Encourage him to take the game on, do not play him out of the square, lead, present and have a go.

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #25 –
Quote from: LP – on
Your points suggest Harry should be left developing in the VFL, we don't have any of the ready made KPFs to support him in his development like Daniher did. Daniher was able to run around in the AFL as a virtual non-contributor for 2 or 3 seasons, do we have that luxury?

I think until some of the senior heads role, we cannot afford the luxury of sending the kids to the slaughter!

I have no idea where yuo get that from, it doesn't even make sense.  ::)
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #26 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
I have no idea where yuo get that from, it doesn't even make sense.  ::)

Deags, Thry and Sandsmere are correct.

You basically assert that the VFL not having started is no basis for form good or bad, practice match or not, then assert that a kid who has shown nothing in meaningless VFL practice games deserves a run!

If you want to make your point you have to compare Daniher's VFL career pre-AFL selection, to McKay's VFL form, which is of course impossible because McKay's form line is virtually non-existent.

The only real indicator of any value we have is the VFL coaches feedback, and at the moment the McKay stuff isn't grabbing anyone's attention. Up until now, McKay's all reputation and potential with little performance.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #27 –
Quote from: sandsmere – on
I agree deags.
Harry has done zilch so far this season. Kerr is showing more key forward potential than Harry.
Not so sure about Kerrs ruck work though.


Kerr isnt a ruckman, he got to ruck in the twos when we were short on big blokes, he is 194cm so good Kp size but not a genuine ruck size.
He actually showed a bit of nous and good body positioning when he did ruck which probably gave a false sense of his abilities...
I really like him as a footballer and think he is a bit more rounded than Harry in terms of being able to play up the ground and throw his weight around a bit.
This season looks like being another experimental one and I reckon playing Kerr at FF with the odd run up the ground would do more good than harm and give us another big body in the team
who probably has a bit more aggression about his play..
 

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #28 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

Kerr isnt a ruckman, he got to ruck in the twos when we were short on big blokes, he is 194cm so good Kp size but not a genuine ruck size.
He actually showed a bit of nous and good body positioning when he did ruck which probably gave a false sense of his abilities...
I really like him as a footballer and think he is a bit more rounded than Harry in terms of being able to play up the ground and throw his weight around a bit.

This season looks like being another experimental one and I reckon playing Kerr at FF with the odd run up the ground would do more good than harm and give us another big body in the team who probably has a bit more aggression about his play..

I agree with all this, Kerr is capable of doing the Levi role in my opinion, primarily forward while offering our ruck a chop in the F50 stoppages. His jump and strength let him do the ruck role even while injured in the VFL, but it's not the AFL.

For me an important point is this. Kerr is not so much of a loss at ground level around stoppages, so he should take the ruck and he'll be more than just an annoyance, and nobody will get an easy ball around him.

McKay is ultra-mobile for his size around the ground at stoppages, good below his knees and can almost play as another bullocking mobile forward. When he gets sucked into the ruck at F50 stoppages it's a loss for us because at the moment he doesn't have the 2nd efforts and recovery he needs after the tap, not because of fitness but because or experience and knowledge.

If Kerr is not in then I'd rather see Jones play as the sacrificial KPF alongside Charlie and another marking target whoever that may be, even Casboult. Let Jones take all F50 stoppages, because Jones has supreme recovery and attack on the football at the moment without hesitation, that will create opportunities in the F50. Let Levi clear out and drop behind play and compete for the high ball coming out of our F50 zone. This variable role base approach makes more sense to me than mindlessly welding blokes into set positions.

Further this isn't new skills they have to learn, it stuff they have already shown and they just need the game plan to allow them to make use of it.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Our list - what we have and what we need

Reply #29 –
I rated Daniel Venables a couple of years ago in his draft year. He went to the WCE and kicked 3 round 1 or 2 this year. Like him. Wouldn't mind snaring a couple of 20-22 years olds like that to top us up more, and without giving away much.

I'm interested to see what Jordan Gallucci from the Crows does this year also. Another Vic kid with some talent in his 2nd year of AFL footy, ala Venables.

Potentially some lost Dogs. Dahlhaus, Wallis and Smith could be handy. I do like Lukas Webb and Bailey Dale too. They'd fit our Club nicely.

Then add a potential top 5 pick - could be any of Lukosius, Max Kind, Ben King, Walsh, Rankine or Hill. jets all of them!

To be honest, and I have been quite frustrated already this year, we are playing kids so we look and play footy at the top level just that way. We look small and skinny, slow at times and without confidence, or looking to the skipper or someone to make a stance. Charlie C, Cripps, Fisher and Marchbank are doing the job thus far. Others will improve. We will know more in the 2nd half of this year, our 3rd year of the reset/rebuild, IMHO.

Hold tight till then!