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Poll

Who would you like to see as the next Captain of the Carlton football club?

Patrick Cripps
[ 39 ] (66.1%)
Sam Docherty
[ 18 ] (30.5%)
Other
[ 2 ] (3.4%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Topic: Next Captain (Read 36338 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Next Captain

Reply #45 –
Cripps will be able to do all he does now and be as inspirational as he is now, whether he's captain or not. I doubt his team mates will find him any less inspirational or accountable in the absence of a title.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #46 –
Quote from: DJC – on
2.  No-one knows that Murphy has been an ordinary captain.  Some folk may think that, but others, including Juddy and Bolts, assert that he is a very good captain.

If know one knows then how do Judd and Bolton?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!
 

Re: Next Captain

Reply #47 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
If know one knows then how do Judd and Bolton?

Read what I wrote more carefully MBB  ;)  Assert is not the same as know! 

I assert that the views of Juddy, Bolts and the playing group about Murph's captaincy are more informed/accurate than the views/opinions of supporters generally and most of those folk paid to have opinions about football matters.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Next Captain

Reply #48 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
If no one knows then how do Judd and Bolton?

They are not just anybody, in this matter they are not like another person on the street, they are both specialists and experts in privileged positions, with information that the rest of us are not party to, privileged information!

Media and forum members might question those assertions, but those questions are posed from very weak positions. Positions that are almost worthless in the debate, if not for the influence of marketing people and administrators.

The "no one knows" argument reminds me of the climate deniers who think their opinion is equal to that of thousands of climate experts!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Next Captain

Reply #49 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Read what I wrote more carefully MBB  ;)  Assert is not the same as know! 

I assert that the views of Juddy, Bolts and the playing group about Murph's captaincy are more informed/accurate than the views/opinions of supporters generally and most of those folk paid to have opinions about football matters.

You keep writing that kind of thing that the staff, players and coach etc. knows best but you're happy to post your own opinions and in case you haven't noticed we're a crap club so maybe they don't have a clue what's best? ;D

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Next Captain

Reply #50 –
I think the tell for Bolton, SOS etc. is in the actions rather than the words. It goes without saying that they will pump up Murph's tyres in public, but if the action is to keep him as captain up to now, then I guess he is "best available." Silvagni played under Kernahan, and Bolts worked with Hodge, so I figure between them they know a thing or two about good captains. I'm sure they would have given the job to someone better, if they had the option.

At any rate, Murphy's reign is very near the end, so we can look forward to opining about the next candidate real soon.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #51 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
You keep writing that kind of thing that the staff, players and coach etc. knows best but you're happy to post your own opinions and in case you haven't noticed we're a crap club so maybe they don't have a clue what's best? ;D

Well, we've certainly been an extremely poorly performing club for a very long time as evidenced by the depth of the hole we found ourselves in. I think anyone trying to defend that record would have their work cut out. Our current coaching and list management have full awareness of that and of the size of the job to get us out of that hole. It's very early to pre-judge how they might go but just pray that they know what they're doing, because if they don't we have many more long years of frustration and heartbreak ahead of us.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #52 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Silvagni played under Kernahan, and Bolts worked with Hodge, so I figure between them they know a thing or two about good captains. I'm sure they would have given the job to someone better, if they had the option.

Two very good examples of the difference in leadership, Kernahan's attack on the football was pure, extremely hard but completely fair and within the rules. Hodge was uncompromising to the point of being illegal.

A lot of Kernahan era past players, our and theirs, consider him one of the greatest captains of all time!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Next Captain

Reply #53 –
Quote from: LP – on
This debate about captaincy is mired in stereotypes, perceptions and personal preferences. The irony for me is that I cannot say Judd was a Hodge or Brown type captain, yet he copped none of the invective Murphy has to deal with!

I am not sure what your expectations were but I don't think he could have done much more.
Playing on the ball all day and winning contested footy is a bit tougher than playing outside.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #54 –
We stuffed Judd up and shortened his career by turning him into a inside mid....he led more by example than being a player who rallied the troops with speeches etc..
We need to learn from Judd and not bugger up Cripps either, the kid will be burnt out and a cripple if he keeps having to carry the team over the line....

Re: Next Captain

Reply #55 –
Quote from: JonHenry – on
I am not sure what your expectations were but I don't think he could have done much more.
Playing on the ball all day and winning contested footy is a bit tougher than playing outside.

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
We stuffed Judd up and shortened his career by turning him into a inside mid....

If I recall either in his book or a published article he wrote that it was his decision, not something we forced him to do.

I also heard him mention on radio once that a longer career was not guaranteed if he had continued the high intensity outside running he was known for. From his book and his various statements I infer that he effectively made a decision between what he thought was the lesser of two evils, bruising and muscles soreness over joint damage and pain.

I think that flies in the face of the idea that outside running at AFL intensity is somehow easier! It may be bruise free, but easier, I suspect not!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Next Captain

Reply #56 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
We stuffed Judd up and shortened his career by turning him into a inside mid....he led more by example than being a player who rallied the troops with speeches etc..
We need to learn from Judd and not bugger up Cripps either, the kid will be burnt out and a cripple if he keeps having to carry the team over the line....

Totally agree. He desperately needs some quality reinforcements asap. Hopefully Kennedy will come back in soon but we need more and we must not let him battle on for another year without these. He needs more time between shifts!
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #57 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
We stuffed Judd up and shortened his career by turning him into a inside mid....he led more by example than being a player who rallied the troops with speeches etc..
We need to learn from Judd and not bugger up Cripps either, the kid will be burnt out and a cripple if he keeps having to carry the team over the line....

Funnily enough...
I've always found it hard to be critical of Murphy. The introduction to senior football he was provided by the club, and his teammates in particular, was very much less than it could have been. The poor kid was targeted and knocked silly in his early days.

It's the problem we have when we call upon some players to carry more than their share. (Judd, Cripps.... even Weitering to some extent.) Some players carry the burden well, but it must have a debilitating effect as the years go by.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #58 –
Quote from: Lods – on
It's the problem we have when we call upon some players to carry more than their share. (Judd, Cripps.... even Weitering to some extent.) Some players carry the burden well, but it must have a debilitating effect as the years go by.

It's why Murphy is so good Lods, and clearly the only choice for captain, he's never stopped committing himself despite all the battering we subjected him to, by our choice!

The irony of posters complaining about our treatment of Judd, while busily lambasting Murphy, is not lost on me!

Really, that first year of Murphy's career was a disgrace, a very dark day for Carlton FC! He was thrown in the deep end and survived. I have no doubt his performance ever since has been degraded despite it still being clearly A-Grade, he is probably besides Judd the only other player over that period who was clearly and consistently A-grade.

Carlton is such a contrast to clubs like Geelong and the Dawks, half the time you don't hear about their draftees until they are 2 or 3 years in! For a long time we seen to be calling time on guys before they have even had a chance to fire a shot!

I suppose that is our historical silver-spoon mindset, Lords of the Manor making use of the utilitarian players as a resource, if we break one we can always buy another! It reeks of disrespect!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Next Captain

Reply #59 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
You missed a massive con for cripps.   He can be exposed by a quick opponent and can be caught not being accountable.

He won't be like that his whole career but Docherty is anything but unaccountable.

....and Docherty can be exposed in the air by a resting ruckman. Nobody is perfect.

As for not being accountable, he had 11 tackles last week. When was the last time Doc or Murph had that many? FYI, never and 2014. Cripps has still had more tackles in a game than the other 2.