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Poll

Who would you like to see as the next Captain of the Carlton football club?

Patrick Cripps
[ 39 ] (66.1%)
Sam Docherty
[ 18 ] (30.5%)
Other
[ 2 ] (3.4%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Topic: Next Captain (Read 36352 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Next Captain

Reply #75 –
As a small aside, Jonathan Brown was co captain of the Lions in 07-08, then sole captain from 09-12, then co captain in 2013. The Lions played finals in just one of those years, and often finished in the lower reaches of the ladder.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #76 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I think on the Staging For Frees Index, Murphy rates pretty low IMO, in an industry where such habits are not only encouraged, but dare I say also discussed and rehearsed.

Compare Selwood and Murphy.

Both stage for free kicks. One earns them more than the other and comes off most weeks looking like a mummy.

Selwood would practice staging for free kicks, or at least earning them with his shrug.
Murphy doesn't need to practice throwing his head back.


Quote from: PaulP – on
I've said it before - much too much is made of the role of captain - one individual simply cannot make that much difference.

How much difference can a colour make? What about a whole jumper design?
I'm tipping a lot less than a captain, but yet, our club, and others around the world, have changed them in order to turn fortunes around in one way or another.

Keep in mind playing football in your local league is different to that of AFL level. A Captain at AFL level needs to have more strings to their bow.

As stupid as it sounds, the right captain can not just ease pressure on the coach, but the whole club.

Look at how the people on here who used to give it to Gibbs on a weekly basis. Even if he played a blinder, some people simply didn't like the way he went about it. Bryce Squibbs could often be heard on here and in the outer. That is how opposition supporters see him. That trickles into the media as well.
Similar can be said about Marc Murphy, except being captain the scrutiny is 10-fold.

Look at how the media have already jumped on board the Cripps-train and suggesting Murphy should be replaced.
Any poor performance Murphy puts in from here will reignite that debate. He is a divisive figure outside our football club. As a result pressure is heaped on him, and the club. Bolton is forced to defend him at press conferences and forced to defend his own stance. Questions are asked of those above him as well.

Cripps as captain and 95% of that noise disappears.

In short, the captain should represent your brand. Not only for your teammates, but the extended AFL community as a whole.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #77 –
When you say "the right captain", you mean the right captain as ordained by the media ? Well, f#ck 'em. The last group we should be bowing to are the media. We've been extremely weak in this respect for ages. They will always find a new whipping boy. In late 2012, the media determined we needed to change coach and Mick was the man. Then in early 2015, they again determined we had to change coach because Mick wasn't the man. We need to resist their nonsense, because eventually they will move on to the next story, scandal etc.

Murphy is nearing the end anyway. He will be gone soon enough, and then we can whinge about Doc, Cripps etc.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #78 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
When you say "the right captain", you mean the right captain as ordained by the media ?
No.

I mean the right captain for the football club.

That is the players, coaches etc.
That is also enhancing the brand of the club, which helps with members, supporters, AFL community including the media.

Each time i make a post about this, someone assumes that is the ONLY requirement. It is not.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #79 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
No.

I mean the right captain for the football club.

That is the players, coaches etc.
That is also enhancing the brand of the club, which helps with members, supporters, AFL community including the media.

Each time i make a post about this, someone assumes that is the ONLY requirement. It is not.

How do you know that Murph isn't that player, at least for now ?

Re: Next Captain

Reply #80 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
How do you know that Murph isn't that player, at least for now ?

I don't think Murphy was ever the right player. Carrazzo and Simpson should've got it instead of him.

But as for now...
For all the reasons i've discussed thus far.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #81 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I don't think Murphy was ever the right player. Carrazzo and Simpson should've got it instead of him.

But as for now...
For all the reasons i've discussed thus far.

That's not really what I was asking. If the club is going through a full reset, including, one would think, a process to select the best captain, why is Murphy still in the role ? Bolton is into his 3rd year now. It's not as if he hasn't had enough time.

You can't assume the club hasn't gone through the correct process because you don't agree with the selection.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #83 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
That's not really what I was asking. If the club is going through a full reset, including, one would think, a process to select the best captain, why is Murphy still in the role ? Bolton is into his 3rd year now. It's not as if he hasn't had enough time.

You can't assume the club hasn't gone through the correct process because you don't agree with the selection.

When Bolton came in, he wouldn't dare choose anyone other than Murphy for captain.

He couldn't give it to Simpson, because it should've been done before and he is/was too old. How he is still going today is remarkable.
He couldn't give it to Cripps, Doc because they were too young and not half the players they are today.
So he could he have given it too?

As for the 'process', i'm dubious of that anyway.

Previously the process has been exposed from a former player, and former assistant. Votes for the leadership were given by players and calculated by the coaching staff....who proceeded to shift players in and out of the leadership group as they saw fit, ignoring the voting 'process'.
The club has a history in 'choosing' who they want, overriding the players and in Micks case, the coach as well.
Why do you think this time is any different? There has been shifty's going on with the last 2 coaches, why not now?

Re: Next Captain

Reply #84 –
Where are these exposés as provided by the former player and assistant ? Why do you assume that the voting process was solely the preserve of the players ? You imply the coaches input into the process was corrupt - should not the coaches get a vote as well ? If it's only the players who vote, isn't it possible that it may descend into a popularity contest ? Perhaps, just perhaps, the process was fair and reasonable all along and it was made clear to the players that their vote was not final, nor was it binding.

You say it's remarkable that Murph has lasted this long. Without knowing what goes on inside the club, maybe we should allow for the possibility that it isn't all that remarkable.

If what you say is true, and the process is deeply flawed, even after a full reset, then the club should just pack up and call it a day. I'll buddy up with my James Hird inflatable doll, and go and support the Bombers.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #85 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
If what you say is true, and the process is deeply flawed, even after a full reset, then the club should just pack up and call it a day. I'll buddy up with my James Hird inflatable doll, and go and support the Bombers.

Somehow I don't think you need to worry, there is more to selecting a captain than the meat-head approach!

If you took too literally many of those demands posted on Murphy as captain, then Mitch Robinson would have been the logical choice! ;D

You need some blunt tools in a team, but it doesn't have to be the captain. I think most posters are frustrated because we have none at all!

Ownership of a JTurd doll is a little disturbing though! :o
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Next Captain

Reply #86 –
Quote from: LP – on
Somehow I don't think you need to worry, there is more to selecting a captain than the meat-head approach!

Although ownership of a JTurd doll is a little disturbing! :o

Having a club that is potentially still dysfunctional even after the reset is 1000x worse than my doll, thank you very much.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #87 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Having a club that is potentially still dysfunctional even after the reset is 1000x worse than my doll, thank you very much.

I don't think we are dysfunctional, it's a very simplistic explanation of what the fans observe, they need a single current point of blame and cannot help but think fixes will be instantaneous!

I do not deny the process is frustrating, but it does have a clear destination with more than one available route that most cannot agree on!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Next Captain

Reply #88 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Where are these exposés as provided by the former player and assistant ? Why do you assume that the voting process was solely the preserve of the players ? You imply the coaches input into the process was corrupt - should not the coaches get a vote as well ? If it's only the players who vote, isn't it possible that it may descend into a popularity contest ? Perhaps, just perhaps, the process was fair and reasonable all along and it was made clear to the players that their vote was not final, nor was it binding.

You say it's remarkable that Murph has lasted this long. Without knowing what goes on inside the club, maybe we should allow for the possibility that it isn't all that remarkable.

If what you say is true, and the process is deeply flawed, even after a full reset, then the club should just pack up and call it a day. I'll buddy up with my James Hird inflatable doll, and go and support the Bombers.

First paragraph, I don't assume anything.
I was told what the players were told.
I was told what the coaches decided afterwards.
Either the coaches lied to the players beforehand. Or they changed their mind afterwards and failed to tell the players.
In any event, it breeds mistrust amongst the group, especially when the message trickles down from one of the assistant coaches to at least one of the players at the time.

As for 'remarkable'....i was clearly talking about Simpson, not Murphy. If this type of comprehension is commonplace, i'm not surprised you are still arguing.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #89 –
I know the original source of the rumors Kruddler refers to and it was initally a disgruntled past player.

Actually, since Ratts time it's been the same player as the source for many of these rumors, someone who just wouldn't tow the team line and got the kibosh because of it! The bloke is still sprouting rumors about the current Carlton club even though his AFL career ended up at a foreign club some time ago!

The system is simple, players vote on the members of the leadership group, from the list of top nominations the coaches selected the leadership group, captain and VC from that list. Not all the top nominations make the final cut, and the captain isn't necessarily the top player choice, although Daisy confirmed he thought after voting Murphy was the unanimous player selection for this year, and that was later confirmed a couple of weeks later by the coaches. The proposed captain has to accept the nomination, you cannot be made captain if you do not want it!

The coaches by the way, at the time Daisy's opinion was offered, refused to confirm or deny Murphy would again be captain. I suppose that is because of the two things that must happen after the player vote.

It has to be that way because the players have no idea who is a keeper and who is a trade bait, you cannot have players select a captain who will be possibly traded at season end, it kills club culture!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"