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Author Topic: Reset Rants  (Read 16502 times)

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Online townsendcalling

  • Best & Fairest Winner
Reset Rants
« on: April 29, 2018, 10:02:36 AM »
It seems that many of the threads end up being rants about our reset, so I thought I’d start one exclusively for the rant!

Here’s my take, for what it’s worth. In the years to come, when we do return to significant competitiveness, have again awoken the sleeping masses who ‘barrack for’ Carlton plus picked up all the newbies, have a cup or two more in the cupboard (thus stretching us away from Essendon who are on the proverbial Road to Nowhere), when Cripps has notched up his 250 in the competition and we are discussing Deisel or Cripps in the center of our all time greatest team, when we are debating which was better Kouta’s last quarter in 99 against Essendon or Charlie when he single handedly torn Adelaide apart in that semi, when we refer to our 200 game superstars (Dow, O’Brien and De Koning) as the Class of 2018.....when I say all that to my grand kids or whoever is listening, I will also be saying that it wasn’t always like this

I will say that I stuck fat when the club took the bold / courageous move of 4 years of pain and sacrifice to ensure that we set ourselves on a course whereby we’ll NEVER have to reset again but simply top up and recruit wisely to stay as a contender.

There were passages on Friday night that frustrated me to the max (mainly from players who will not be part of the major resurgence) but I also saw enough isolated incidents to say ‘Yeh, this could be exciting!’

Rant over and out. 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 10:07:23 AM by townsendcalling »

Offline PaulP

  • Hall Of Fame
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2018, 10:33:05 AM »
The starting point in all this is purely and simply whether or not you believe in the current regime and current approach, whatever the short term evidence may tell you. If Bolton is doing exactly what he outlined when he applied for the job, and he was awarded the job based on being able to stay true to the course, then the club should have the guts to back him in, 100%, no ifs or buts.

Offline Lods

  • Administrator
  • Senior Coach
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2018, 11:05:02 AM »
If you could set out a strategy and say 100% that it will work there wouldn't be any questioning of the direction.

But we can't do that.
There are elements we can control.
There are decisions we can make that seem like a good idea at the time ( a more attacking 2018)...but often circumstances can work to derail them (injuries to key personnel).
And there are elements totally out of our control....e.g We don't know what the future holds for players coming off contract....we've signed some of the young ones to extensions... some before they've even reached double figure games! Others remain a worry...They'll come for Cripps big-time.
....and there's the old coach killer-injuries!

There are key questions that remain over the ability of coach and list manager.
The potential seems there...how will those young players develop. (3 of last years rising stars are really struggling at the moment and a number one draft pick is seemingly out of sorts)

Have we cut too deep into the list leaving us with an extended time frame to turn the corner?

Now a rebuild seemed like a good idea at the time, but the best argument I've heard for it was.... "It's something that we haven't tried before."

I can't have faith in that...I need something more.

So for me there are some uncertainties that require a wait and see.
Now is not the time for a change of direction...but the road needs to smooth out a bit in the months ahead or the wheels will fall off.


« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 11:20:29 AM by Lods »

Offline laj

  • Assistant Coach
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2018, 11:08:43 AM »
We've been given quite a list of good, young players, who alot of coaches would be happy to work with. By the 3rd year we should be seeing some movement up the ladder, playing with some direction, or at least having some idea of what you're supposed to do. Right now, 2 of our gun first round picks, Weitering and SPS look lost when they should be developing into stars. Last year, in about 70% of our games you could say we were right in it pretty late with a chance of winning despite just winning the 6 games. We were a prick of a side to play up until about round 18 when the young ones started to tire. We could well have expected to be top 10 or 11 based on that.

What we have done well is pick alot better beyond the first round. That will help as we develop.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 11:11:57 AM by laj »

Online ElwoodBlues1

  • Hall Of Fame
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM »
Footy is a business, like any other business you have to deliver to the customers.....Stkildas rebuild has failed, Richardson will probably get the lemon and sars at seasons end, thats the reality.  Our rebuild is faltering, if its not the list then its the football department and we need to make changes to the staff or how we go about it, doesnt mean Bolton has to go but it might mean a shake up and a  few others have to go and my pet hate a Director of coaching gets placed above Bolton to fill in the gaps where he is lacking.
He is a novice coach who came from a successful club but he is still a novice, he looked rattled at his last presser and said we need wins and is hoping to get a few by mid year....he isnt an idiot , while he has downplayed results as a factor in the rebuild he knows every loss is another nail in his coffin and he looks like he is starting to feel the pressure. No one expects a win vs the Crows but if we get hammered by arch rival Essendon its going to test the character of the board...

I wouldnt sack him but like I said I would give him more support and tweak a few things in the footy dept.....
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 11:30:43 AM by ElwoodBlues1 »

Offline PaulP

  • Hall Of Fame
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2018, 11:45:01 AM »
Amazon operated at a loss for about 4 years before it turned a profit, and my simplistic knowledge of the business world leads me to believe they still have years where they lose money.

If the model, methods and personnel are sound, then sometimes you need to sit tight and have faith. I see little value in returning to the "sack coach after 5 minutes" model.

Offline cookie2

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall Of Fame
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2018, 11:49:46 AM »
The whole club is invested in this reset or rebuild or whatever word you want to use not just BB. Our reputation as a club is on the line more than  it's ever been before imo. It is a huge investment in that sense and so the club collectively must pull out all stops to make it work. I believe the time for finger pointing at individuals is over.  The time frame I believe, as I have posted before, is that we are turning the corner this year, very competitive next year and climbing the ladder with young talent really starting to impress.

So far this year we have concerns for a number of reasons which are well documented, Some sound like excuses others may be valid but I certainly have my own concerns. I desperately hope that the senior club officials are very closely monitoring things and if BB does need more assistance then he gets provided with it - whatever is deemed appropriate. No more singling out sacrificial lambs - I certainly would not be even considering sacking BB as an option until the reset time frame is completed. If he is sacked then he should have plenty of mates to keep him company and the next reset should be a much more extensive one both on and off field.
I went to a faith healer last night and he was rubbish, even the bloke in the wheelchair got up and walked out!

Offline PaulP

  • Hall Of Fame
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2018, 12:03:09 PM »
Nice post cookie.

Offline hanwell

  • Under 18 State Team
  • Still bleeding blue
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 12:17:12 PM »
Two rounds ago I was ready to revert to "old Carlton" and sack the coach. Now, after so many people with real affinity with the game (Derm, Duck,etc) pleading for us the supporters to be patient, I can see why.
I like Townsend can see the potential this group is brewing, we will get another very early pick this year, and by all accounts this is the best draft in a generation (like the Hawthorn one that set them up for a decade).
Throw in Ben Silvani who is almost a bonus even if someone throws his name up early it would only bite into our second round (which we have two picks from memory), almost like sos thought this might have been how this year may pan out.
Don't forget that we virtually have stripped the playing list back to bare bones, I can't think of any other club to have been this ruthless, virtually taken back to a GWS/GCoast scenario, year zero stuff. It's not a reset or rebuild, it is a re-creation.
Its a completely different sport but Manchester United used to be crape, they recreated their entire list and gave Fergie carte blache and they have never looked back, but it was not over night. Fans brought out a tee shirt that stated
" I barracked for Man U when they were crape!"
I will do the same, design one through Vista Print, date it and put it on mothballs.........
Faith is building as is my club
Hanwell out.
I was there, Blight missed!!!

Offline PaulP

  • Hall Of Fame
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2018, 12:25:13 PM »
Nice post H.

EDIT : and you should have faith regardless of what media people say - this week it's white, next week it's black..............

Offline laj

  • Assistant Coach
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2018, 12:52:59 PM »
I was to see better selections and the look of at least a modern game plan where the players have some idea of what they are doing out there. If the latter doesn't happen, well, that's on the coach. Team selections are totally out of kilter with the modern game.

Offline Lods

  • Administrator
  • Senior Coach
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 01:13:29 PM »
Don't forget that we virtually have stripped the playing list back to bare bones, I can't think of any other club to have been this ruthless, virtually taken back to a GWS/GCoast scenario, year zero stuff. It's not a reset or rebuild, it is a re-creation.

Isn't the problem with that though, that we're trying to do a duplication of the GWS/ Gold Coast situation without the draft concessions.

(We may pick up Ben Silvagni but at this stage the one he's likely to replace would be his brother.)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 01:16:40 PM by Lods »

Offline PaulP

  • Hall Of Fame
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2018, 01:22:53 PM »
Isn't the problem with that though, that we're trying to do a duplication of the GWS/ Gold Coast situation without the draft concessions.

(We may pick up Ben Silvagni but at this stage the one he's likely to replace would be his brother.)

We've only been able to do it by giving players up along the way, so we have got more 1st rounders than the expansion clubs, but clearly it's at a cost.

Offline Lods

  • Administrator
  • Senior Coach
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 01:25:00 PM »
We've only been able to do it by giving players up along the way, so we have got more 1st rounders than the expansion clubs, but clearly it's at a cost.

It's also in many cases their 'unwanted' first rounders which puts us well behind.

Offline Baggers

  • Brownlow Medallist
  • Apprentice Human
Re: Reset Rants
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2018, 01:30:20 PM »
Absolutely agree with the sentiments, well considered thoughts and opinions expressed in this thread.

Well said, Fluffy One. Yes, 'Our reputation as a club is one the line'. Spot on. In corporate speak, our brand is on the line and is wearing some deep wounds already, in fact our club is only being held together by past reputation and past success. Today our club is limping badly due to the wounds delivered by arrogance, ignorance, laziness and jobs for mates.

Enormous credit must go to the Triggster and Judge for stopping the rot and setting a direction that factored in the desires of the Members and supporters - no more quick fixes.

But are we taking it too far? Are we using the sins of the past to excuse and justify present abject failure as inevitable if you're not doing it the 'new way', the 'reset' way? Are we using the sins of the past and what we supporters wanted to justify a slower than necessary 'rebuild', which started out as a 'reset'. Are we throwing out the baby with the bath water? Were there some characteristics of the traditional Carlton way which actually worked? Before Elliott fckd up everything, we had a culture of innovation, rapid change if necessary and pure excellence.

So, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment. Here are mantras we've heard from the club which I personally believe are wrong and counter productive or need further, better explanation:

1.  Not deviating. What does this actually mean? Does this mean not deviating from the path of no saviours or quick fixes? Or does it mean not to deviate from the present game plan/coaching styles/coaching & admin staff and so on? Both? Even Apollo missions, although having a clear destination, knew that constant 'course correction' is a reality.

Is BB willing to question his coaching/direction? There are some basics in coaching which need never be questioned, as they are self-evident realities. Something went horribly wrong and failed dismally when we attempted to alter our game to accommodate a more offensive style. It failed grandly, though it did provide us with, all up, about 20 minutes of attractive footy... not winning footy, but pretty footy. This tells me that our coaching people did NOT think it through. We seem to have dumped this... good, but I repeat, it would seem that we did not think through this strong change in game plan or it wasn't implemented correctly or we don't have the culture to integrate change, or someone was covertly resistent to the change... whatever, it was a colossal c0ckup which only confused everyone, the players, seemingly, most of all.

This early rounds 'offensive layer' flies in the face of the stated 'not deviating'. Good intention though, but obviously poorly done for whatever reason. 'Offensive layer' spanks of pretty speak, seductive corporate cr@p.

2. 'We're not putting a ceiling on...' Bullcrap. Although this sounds like a sexy, motivation 101 kind of statement hinting at not preventing us from amazing progress, it is cr@p. The human brain is a magnificent goal achieving device and needs/demands specific, incremental goals. We can then measure and deal with failure and celebrate successes along the way. I am confident we have these measurements in certain areas within the club, but we need bold, public, accountable declarations of W/L or ladder position goals or whatever... the Tiggers made a bold declaration a few years back re membership nos... they were laughed at, and who is doing the laughing now? There are many other examples. Seems to me that 'we're not putting a ceiling on (whatever)', is a cop out and actually playing safe. Fck safe. (But make sure how you deliver the goal public is simply put, not something that'll open you to mockery -- remember 'what have the 'Blues got cooking' or whatever it was. Dumb.

And that leads me to:

3. 'Not getting too high or too low'. Bullsh1t. That spanks of 'moderate.' Beige. And again, safe. There is nothing to be feared from expressing and acknowledging deep lows (hurt), this can become a great motivator. As can acknowledging and expressing big highs... a significant success deserves and demands celebration - this helps with goal achieving/setting by the way. Maybe BB is like this in his personal life, keeping ceilings (remember 'no ceilings?') on pain and joy... hurt and exhilaration?

Not getting too high or too low minimises loss/hurt/pain, which is not something a healthy person (or organisation) should ever do. Likewise, minimising a big win should never, ever be done. A big win should be celebrated and enjoyed to the fullest (within a certain time frame of course). This helps our brains understand and be super clear about our desired 'goals'.

Maybe moderating feelings is something that comes with 'teaching'. But leadership begs for authenticity, without artificial limits. Great leaders know how to manage extreme highs and lows (in themselves and others) and turn them into motivation and PASSION.

BB is a likeable person who will get more time and be forgiven more sins than more abrasive senior coaches. But where we are at present is totally unacceptable, and by where we are at present, I mean showing no improvement, in fact, we've gone further backwards.

For BB to mention that we'd win a game or two before the bye flies in the face of everything he's said previously and tells me that others may be pulling his strings/he's under pressure to deliver or he'll be marched out of the place... maybe this comment is just to keep the chooks (us) happy for a while, by feeding us a few morsels.

I really hope that BB is the man for the job, but to me 'no ceilings' is very similar to no accountability.

'Not getting too high or too low', minimises... and nothing ever shrank to greatness.

And to me the only things you never deviate from, when wanting sustained success, are ruthlessness, mongrel persistence and passion... and green shoots never grew into trees of ruthlessness, mongrel persistence and passion when grown in a soil of 'not getting too high or too low'.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

 

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