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Topic: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon (Read 50259 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #135 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
I love Kreuz - he is very important to us atm but we definitely need a good back up for him. We have 2 good ones in Phillips and Lobbe and we must do everything possible to hang on to them imo. Phillips is probably the one who is more likely to want to go elsewhere so we need to find a way to keep him happy. A good salary plus a few senior games a year may do that for a year or two but others will surely come knocking?

We only need one back up as we develop De Konning, who looks a likely type. In the case of a run of injury to our rucks we just use Levi, Jones etc for a week or two.

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #136 –
Phillips needs to repay the faith a bit IMHO.  We have supported him through 2 seasons where he was relatively injured, and unable to play football, and is now coming good.  Its a bit rich to move on for more opportunity simply because hes good enough too.


In the past we were guilty of failing our players, which is why we found player retention difficult, and player attraction.  It means that money talks, and thats the only way to get players.

What I hope we are doing (led by Bolton) is investing in people as individuals and really giving them all the tools to reach their best version of themselves.  This means working with them to maximise their football learning, as well as teaching them life skills and perhaps helping them through opportunites for the future (setting up learning opportunities, business opportunites, investment opportunities, coaching opportunities etc).  This is a bit more conducive to building an environment that players won't just jump out of, and why its imperative that even if we arent travelling well on field, that we are doing all we can to get the most out of people both on and off it.

Obviously, we cant hang onto everyone all the time, and that will mean that we eventually have to cut our ties with people, but the manner in which players have parted ways with us in the past, and the manner in which we have parted ways with players in the past, have both indicated that we are over simplifying our management of people and looking at them as commodities.  to a degree this will always be true, but I think its this sort of thing that we can control and get right, that will lead to better performance at all levels of the football club.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #137 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Just want to mention SPS...there was a moment early in the game where he didn't go hard enough and actually backed away from the contact. I thought at the time it was a poor effort. Lyon got stuck in to him and rightly so I thought, but I watched him after that and he went head down into the contests I saw.
As long as he learns from that, and I'm sure the coaches will highlight it, it's going to be fine.

Have seen a few comments about this and heard Lyon get stuck in as well. I went back to the replay and watched it a few times and want to give him the benefit of the doubt here. I don't reckon he was worried about the contact, I think he was trying to tap the ball to the side and spin out of trouble. I think he was trying to avoid the contact, but only so he could gather the ball and run. The Indigenous guys think a bit different sometimes, think about doing things that most other players don't even consider, that's what makes them so great to watch.
Anyway not worried about SPS at all, reckon he has got the right stuff to make it.

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #138 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Phillips is too good to be playing extended periods in the magoos, and if that happens, he'll be seeking opportunities elsewhere, and rightly so.

Agreed, I would be looking to move Kreuzer to a club that can challenge for the flag and get a win/win for both parties.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #139 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Agreed, I would be looking to move Kreuzer to a club that can challenge for the flag and get a win/win for both parties.

It's a tough call, but with every injury he gets it is closer to happening.

It probably depends on whether Kreuzer is prepared to accept a pay-cut to chase a flag, because given his history no team would take him on as their solo 1st ruck option! I would think GWS is the team that needs a Kreuzer type to free up their talls who are mostly better suited as KPFs, so it could well be a Kreuzer / Patton type deal.

Could you imagine what having Kreuzer fit and firing would do for the GWS midfield, the blocks and chop-outs he would provide for the likes of Green, Shiels, Ward, Tarranto or Whitfield! Kreuzer when fit is the physicality of Mumford with the mobility of Cameron.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #140 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Agreed, I would be looking to move Kreuzer to a club that can challenge for the flag and get a win/win for both parties.

This is very much a head v heart proposition for mine. Given his age, injury history etc., given that we now have two younger guys in Lobbe and Phillips who are arguably better as "pure" ruckmen, plus TDK, plus the obligatory part timers (Casboult etc.), my head understands that there is some merit to this idea.

But deep down, I feel Krooz is such a heart and soul player, and as Navy Blue as it is possible to be. And still playing good footy. I really couldn't bear to see him in any other colours. That would really drive a massive dagger right between the right and left ventricle.

If I was running the joint, I'm just not sure I would have the coglioni to do it.

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #141 –
Quote from: Jeffy38 – on
De koning will be 1st ruck before Phillips i reckon. Phillips a good 2nd banana only

Phillips is only a first ruck as he can't doing anything forward. Means he's a back-up hence will find it tough to get back in bar injury.

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #142 –
Quote from: LP – on
Surely you haven't forgotten Phillips effect on Nic Nat already, I realise he didn't do it for 4 Qtrs but that is a taste of what Phillips can do?

He doesn't much around the ground or up forward. While Kreuzer's there he's only a back-up, certainly a solid back-up but a back-up nonetheless. Would they play him before Lobbe?

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #143 –
Quote from: LP – on
It's a tough call, but with every injury he gets it is closer to happening.

It probably depends on whether Kreuzer is prepared to accept a pay-cut to chase a flag, because given his history no team would take him on as their solo 1st ruck option! I would think GWS is the team that needs a Kreuzer type to free up their talls who are mostly better suited as KPFs, so it could well be a Kreuzer / Patton type deal.

Could you imagine what having Kreuzer fit and firing would do for the GWS midfield, the blocks and chop-outs he would provide for the likes of Green, Shiels, Ward, Tarranto or Whitfield! Kreuzer when fit is the physicality of Mumford with the mobility of Cameron.

Kreuzer for Shiel and steak  knives?

Hard to say no to that?
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #144 –
All that said, let's not forget Sandi is still going around (well) at 35.

Our form Big Harry played till he was 35/36 too?
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #145 –
Quote from: laj – on
We only need one back up as we develop De Konning, who looks a likely type. In the case of a run of injury to our rucks we just use Levi, Jones etc for a week or two.

With Kreuz's injury record I feel safer with two backups as first ruck tbh. Is not costing us that much. Don't want to make do and mend, unless of course we got an offer we couldn't refuse. De Konning is definitely a likely type but is  a few years away.

Phillips of course has also had his injury woes.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #146 –
And I'm not really a fan of this habit Bolton has of occasionally targeting one player - first Mills at the Swans, then Ablett at GC, now Goddard. It's not a great look for the game, and it makes us look like we have no skilful way of winning, so we have to resort to this. I'm hoping it's just a temporary, growing pains arrangement.

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #147 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
And I'm not really a fan of this habit Bolton has of occasionally targeting one player - first Mills at the Swans, then Ablett at GC, now Goddard. It's not a great look for the game, and it makes us look like we have no skilful way of winning, so we have to resort to this. I'm hoping it's just a temporary, growing pains arrangement.

Today the media are all over Goddard's team-mates for not offering him any chop-outs or assistance, they are accusing the CheatsFC players of looking after themselves, playing for their own survival.

The Bumbers have years of pain coming their way, they have a stinky culture, grown out of shortcuts and privilege! You can see it on the faces of blokes like Hurley, they ponder why is it all so hard? Probably because they are playing unassisted for the first time in their career! ;)

How ironic for Carlton supporters to watch this happening, after nearly a decade of watching blokes like Tuohy and Henderson jog past as Marc Murphy was put to ground repeatedly by opponents like CheastFC, it was a pleasure to see the Bumbers disintegrate in this manor.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #148 –
Quote from: LP – on
Today the media are all over Goddard's team-mates for not offering him any chop-outs or assistance, they are accusing the CheatsFC players of looking after themselves, playing for their own survival.

The Bumbers have years of pain coming their way, they have a stinky culture, grown out of shortcuts and privilege! You can see it on the faces of blokes like Hurley, they ponder why is it all so hard? Probably because they are playing unassisted for the first time in their career! ;)

How ironic for Carlton supporters to watch this happening, after nearly a decade of watching blokes like Tuohy and Henderson jog past as Marc Murphy was put to ground repeatedly by opponents like CheastFC, it was a pleasure to see the Bumbers disintegrate in this manor.

That's not the point I'm making. 4 quarters of tummy taps, shoulder charges etc. focused on one player is a pretty poor excuse for footy. If I was on the laws of the game committee, I'd really be pushing hard to clean up this aspect of the game.

Manner ?

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #149 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
That's not the point I'm making. 4 quarters of tummy taps, shoulder charges etc. focused on one player is a pretty poor excuse for footy. If I was on the laws of the game committee, I'd really be pushing hard to clean up this aspect of the game.

Manner ?

It's not temporary PaulP, it has always been part of football, sport, war, politics or just about any other organised conflict. You target the leaders!

My sons been a captain of footy teams on and off for years, and he's one of the smaller players on the field like Murphy. What enables him to contribute consistently are the actions of team-mates not the opposition. The opposition are always into him! Teams must always stand up for each other, the minute they don't they are no longer a team, and that is the ultimate test!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"