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Topic: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne (Read 56445 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #240 –
Quote from: LP – on
It's because he is so mobile, and his 2nd or 3rd efforts are relentless and instantaneous. They get no break against him, ruck SpecialK with Phillips or Lobbe against Gawn and we'd win far more clearances because Gawn would get no respite. They are flat out keeping up with Kreuzer, and won't easily defeat Phillips.

It's no different to Wet Toast rucking Naitanui and Lycett, after their recent success against Nthmond you'll find more clubs doing this.

Solo rucks are a weak point that can be exploited, we know that from good experience.
No argument from me. I have always been of advocate of 2 specialist rucks (not one plus big lug fwd who cant kick straight). It then becomes either 2 v 1 or 2 v 2. Don't like going in with Kruze alone, like the way he works in tandem with Flip.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #241 –
Quote from: laj – on
I reckon Grigg cpould've rucked all day in the GF and Richmond would've smashed Adelaide. You just rove to the opposition and make sure the opposition kids don't get a clear run at it.
Dont agree. Roving to the oppo ruckman is a fantasy if you ask me. Hard enough to get synergy with your own ruck let alone the other mobs. Geelong couldn't rove to the other rucks on the week and they have The Holy Trinity. Its not a coincidence that Wet Toast are on top of the table. 2 Rucks playing in the Ruck, 2 KPFs playing in the fwd line. What a novel concept.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #242 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Dont agree. Roving to the oppo ruckman is a fantasy if you ask me. Hard enough to get synergy with your own ruck let alone the other mobs. Geelong couldn't rove to the other rucks on the week and they have The Holy Trinity. Its not a coincidence that Wet Toast are on top of the table. 2 Rucks playing in the Ruck, 2 KPFs playing in the fwd line. What a novel concept.

The media is too focused on giving credit to the Nthmond game setup, and the Dogs before them, but have ignored the impact their lack of significant injuries had on those premiership seasons. The current game style is so high in intensity that if you lose a couple of key personal your fortunes will plummet.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #243 –
Look everyone is calling for hard and fast rules but they ignore too many factors.

1.  Richmond's ruck contesting in the grand final worked, because Adelaide became too Dusty focussed, and didnt put enough work into his teamates.

2.  Look what West Coast tandemn ruck and tandemn forwardline did to Richmond on the weekend.  They monstored them and Richmond had no answers.

3.  If Richmond tried to play a midfielder in the ruck against Grundy, or Kreuzer they would get hammered.  Not all the rucks are like Sandilands who are out of the contest after the bounce.

At the end of the day, sometimes the decision on what ruck setup you go with has less to do with which ruckman are available, and more to do with the rest of the side you can put out on the field.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #244 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Look everyone is calling for hard and fast rules but they ignore too many factors.

The best rule is "No Rules", if you have the right list it can win you a flag, go ask Dimma! ;)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #245 –
I think we'll see a lot more of H McKay playing second ruck. He's already shown glimpses that he could develop into a very handy key forward, they'll be keen to add the second string rucking duties to his bag of tricks, would make him a very useful player for us in a few years. They'll give him every chance to learn the craft

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #246 –
Quote from: Jack Burton – on
I think we'll see a lot more of H McKay playing second ruck. He's already shown glimpses that he could develop into a very handy key forward, they'll be keen to add the second string rucking duties to his bag of tricks, would make him a very useful player for us in a few years. They'll give him every chance to learn the craft
And thats where I have a problem. He's a farken KPF, train him and use him as a KPF. Why must we persist with this notion of multi use players. Let the kids learn one craft well then worry about pinch hitting elsewhere. Look at the negative effect on Weiter using him as a swingman. Henderson before him. Learn from past errors Blues.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #247 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
And thats where I have a problem. He's a farken KPF, train him and use him as a KPF. Why must we persist with this notion of multi use players. Let the kids learn one craft well then worry about pinch hitting elsewhere. Look at the negative effect on Weiter using him as a swingman. Henderson before him. Learn from past errors Blues.

I have some sympathy for this - jack of all trades, master of none and all that. We've also ruined players in the past by playing them in roles they were not suited to fill gaps caused by recruiting and development stuff ups. They then got crucified for being no good! I won't go through that sorry list again.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #248 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
I have some sympathy for this - jack of all trades, master of none and all that. We've also ruined players in the past by playing them in roles they were not suited to fill gaps caused by recruiting and development stuff ups. They then got crucified for being no good! I won't go through that sorry list again.
Nuffs enuff Cookie.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #249 –
I agree with others that Kreuzer is our best ruck, but only when he spends 90% of the game in the ruck. So if we want our best ruck to do his role, we need someone to give him a chop out. Playing a second ruck to do 10% of the rucking, when he is useless anywhere else but in the ruck, is ludicrous. The only other option is to only ruck Kreuzer (our best ruckman) in the ruck for 50 or 60% of the time so the other guy gets to ruck too. That takes away from our ruck stocks (we are not playing our best ruck there for the time that we should be), and means we have ruckmen playing forward or back or whatever that are less effective than other guys on our list in similar roles. Can't see why we ever consider playing 2 pure ruckmen while Kreuzer is up and about

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #250 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
FMD...  It really matters what jumper you wear doesn't it?

You got that right????
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #251 –
There can be no doubt Kreuzer is our best ruck option. The  lad is champ and like many are saying does his best work by spending most of the game at the coal face pushing opposition midfielders around.

But reality is he won't be making the taps to our next premiership winning midfield. He is vital to our short term survival, but we need a plan B and I doubt it is either Philips or Lobbe

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #252 –
Quote from: Barbs – on
There can be no doubt Kreuzer is our best ruck option. The  lad is champ and like many are saying does his best work by spending most of the game at the coal face pushing opposition midfielders around.

But reality is he won't be making the taps to our next premiership winning midfield. He is vital to our short term survival, but we need a plan B and I doubt it is either Philips or Lobbe

You have heard of De Koning and Mckay right?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #253 –
Quote from: LP – on
I was debating with Lods jumpers now versus back then, you need to read a whole thread before you comment.

The idea posted earlier that jumpers are a tell about a player's intent is rubbish, step in SOS or Hunter!

I did read the whole thread, but I got lost following the worms in your head, I do agree with you that long or short sleeves have nothing to with a players “intent”
Let’s go BIG !

Re: 2018 Rd 9: Post Game Calm: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #254 –
Quote from: LP – on
You have heard of De Koning and Mckay right?
Yes. But neither is a proven replacement yet. The catch 22 is that the only way they get that sort of experience is by displacing Kreuzer - and consensus suggests he does his best work when he's rucking solo for nearly the whole match.