Carlton Supporters Club

Whats wrong with Vescio? Not allowed to play against her old club?

I worry this Mouncey thing isn't going to end well.

Assuming Mouncey is free of injury, fit and of sound mind she could effectively become unstoppable. If that happens other clubs will start actively searching for and recruiting trans-gender athletes to compete against her. For example with the Mouncey decision, there are transitioned Ex.NBA athletes who are free to pursue an AFLW career, deny them and the AFL will be labeled prejudiced or even worse racist!

The good will of the girls who welcomed Mouncey to AFLW will be tested to the extreme as they or their associates are displaced from the sport they only just won the right to earn a living in!

That's when AFLW fans will start to switch off, the dreams of their daughters shattered!

Sounds extreme doesn't it, but it's not that far over the horizon!

On the other side of this coin, can you imagine the outcry if a transitioned athlete heading in the other direction manages to make it into AFL, and then gets cleaned up by a Mumford or Robinson type player live on air?

What changes to the rules and game will the AFL issue to ensure that doesn't happen?

This decision should have been left in the hands of the genes, that is a natural line of demarcation that cannot be debated!

The other part of it, is that its simply kept out of sports.  People can go trans after their sporting career is over, but they can't have it both ways so to speak.

I welcome it.

Only when things become "unfair" will sanity be restored.

The trans movement is an identity disorder, and should be treated as such and not entertained in the fashion we currently do, and only when people accept that people cannot actually transition gender will we make any real progress on this front.

The other part of it, is that its simply kept out of sports.  People can go trans after their sporting career is over, but they can't have it both ways so to speak.

Gender is not binary Thry.  It’s a continuum with a bunch of folk in the middle who could be biologically male or female regardless of their genitalia.

For not diseased individuals chromosomes are binary as you can get, base 2 with each X or Y!

Are you saying we should write rules that take into account the 0.1% like XYY or XX Male?

I'm not sure the weasel words of opportunistic lawyers or gender rights campaigners make much difference to biology, but at the moment they control and profit from the debate!

No matter what you choose to be labeled, your chromosomes are ultimately the tell!

DJC, if you or your descendants dig up Mouncey's bones in a few thousand years as part of a forensic investigation, you find male features and male chromosomes and identify the remains as most likely male. That is a reality that no legal paragraph or political slogan can change!

Gender is not binary Thry.  It’s a continuum with a bunch of folk in the middle who could be biologically male or female regardless of their genitalia.

For not diseased individuals chromosomes are binary as you can get, base 2 with each X or Y!

Are you saying we should write rules that take into account the 0.1% like XYY or XX Male?

I'm not sure the weasel words of opportunistic lawyers or gender rights campaigners make much difference to biology, but at the moment they control and profit from the debate!

No matter what you choose to be labeled, your chromosomes are ultimately the tell!

DJC, if you or your descendants dig up Mouncey's bones in a few thousand years as part of a forensic investigation, you find male features and male chromosomes and identify the remains as most likely male. That is a reality that no legal paragraph or political slogan can change!

Biological phenomena don't necessarily fit into human-ordained binary categories. So while humans insist that you're either male or female – that you have either XY or XX sex chromosomes – biology begs to differ.

For example, genetic men with Klinefelter syndrome possess an extra X chromosome (XXY) or more rarely, two or three extra Xs (XXXY, XXXXY); they typically produce low levels of testosterone, leading to less-developed masculine sexual characteristics and more-developed feminine characteristics than other men. In contrast, some men receive an extra Y chromosome (XYY) in the genetic lottery, and while they have been referred to as "supermales" that is more sensationalism than science.

Genetic women with Turner syndrome have only one X chromosome; they often display less-developed female sexual characteristics than other women. And people with a genetic mosaic possess XX chromosomes in some cells and XY in others. So how do we determine if they're male or female? Hint: Don't say that it depends on the chromosomal makeup of the majority of their cells, since women with more than 90 per cent XY genetic material have given birth.

Even if you get the "right" combination of sex chromosomes, it's no guarantee that you'll fit into the carefully circumscribed human definitions of male and female.

For example, genetic women (XX) with congenital adrenal hyperplasia produced unusually high levels of virilizing hormones in utero and develop stereotypically masculine sexual characteristics, including masculinized genitals.