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Topic: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle (Read 59479 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #151 –
It (the Pagan era)was the start of the rot...but the forces that brought him to the club have an equal share of the blame.

Palmer in his tweet about "culture" may have been closer to the mark than we care to admit.
Some things can be papered over for a time but if enough pressure comes due to lack of progress then the cracks will always resurface.

The problem is.... where do we find the source of the problem because there doesn't seem to be any real consensus.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #152 –
Quote from: LP – on
I can't agree about BB.

But I do think he does himself significant harm when he tries to claim we stood up well in the 2nd half, when it's clear to all that Freo went into fuel saving mode! Fans are not dumb, don't blow smoke up their ar5e!

It is dumb! Why go down that path with that game plan.

Agree with the rest though. We aren't gullible.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #153 –
Quote from: Lods – on
It (the Pagan era)was the start of the rot...but the forces that brought him to the club have an equal share of the blame.

Palmer in his tweet about "culture" may have been closer to the mark than we care to admit.
Some things can be papered over for a time but if enough pressure comes due to lack of progress then the cracks will always resurface.

The problem is.... where do we find the source of the problem because there doesn't seem to be any real consensus.

One starting point would be to look at what has not changed in the last number of years, which to my mind is as follows :
- Andy Mac
- board members
- senior group of players, including Simpson and the 2 No1's.

Everything else in the footy department has changed. And I'd be looking very closely at our medical department as well.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #154 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
One starting point would be to look at what has not changed in the last number of years, which to my mind is as follows :
- Andy Mac
- board members
- senior group of players, including Simpson and the 2 No1's.

Everything else in the footy department has changed. And I'd be looking very closely at our medical department as well.

Yep
Injury management....
.... what about development?
To me that's where we've been poorest...and yes, part of that has been the lack of strong senior influence....but that's not the only reason.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #155 –
Quote from: capcom – on
I have no time for him either, but he inherited a badly crippled club, a fact he didn't know when he signed on courtesy of the AFL draft sanctions.  But when he went after Martyn, that was my last straw.  He was never a great coach IMHO

He built North's dominant sides of the 90's virtually from scratch, but in fairness North has been a well administered club with a strong culture for a very long time so he had good support, which was something sadly lacking at Carlton.
By the time he got to Princes Park we were broke, out of the draft with a sub standard and ageing list and a dysfunctional board.
Ratten was coach when we played the Kreuzer Cup, I was there when the cheer squad clapped the players off after the loss, but if we're going to rewrite our recent history we may as well rewrite all of it I guess.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #156 –
Nearly spat my coffee out when I read the line about Gibbs. ;D

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #157 –
It would've taken a couple of years for the draft picks to take affect. Even then we landed Simmo, Walker as a PP and Nick Stevens through the PSD. Pagan was past it when he got to Carlton and totally lost the players. Let's not rewrite things too much. Soon as we sacked him we were very competitive the next year and in the finals within 2 years from an absolute basket case.
 

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #158 –
I wasn't apportioning blame.  I know thru an impeccable source that ALL clubs were told not to deal with us with our (assumed) top picks as we were in the AFL gunsights

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #159 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Yep
Injury management....
.... what about development?
To me that's where we've been poorest...and yes, part of that has been the lack of strong senior influence....but that's not the only reason.

Development is one of those words that sounds good, but who really knows what the hell it means ? At any rate, according to the CFC website, we have 4 development coaches, and Barker is head of strategy and high performance. God help us all.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #160 –
And further to my previous point, those development blokes are all post 2010-2011, except Barker who started in 2011. Look no further.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #161 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Development is one of those words that sounds good, but who really knows what the hell it means ? At any rate, according to the CFC website, we have 4 development coaches, and Barker is head of strategy and high performance. God help us all.

To me....
It means taking the raw product you draft as an U/18 player and making him bigger, faster stronger....working to improve their weaknesses and building on their strengths so they become long term players.

Otherwise you don't need coaches and we can spend the money elsewhere.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #162 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Nearly spat my coffee out when I read the line about Gibbs. ;D

Tell me where it's wrong though. I know it reads like an absurdity, but take a look at the reality. It's like Gibbs has applied his voodoo over there. He's been there not 5 minutes and the Crows are a basket case after being the Grand Final the year before. Tell me that's a coincidence.   O0
Drugs are bad, mmmkay...

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #163 –
Quote from: Spanner – on
Tell me where it's wrong though. I know it reads like an absurdity, but take a look at the reality. It's like Gibbs has applied his voodoo over there. He's been there not 5 minutes and the Crows are a basket case after being the Grand Final the year before. Tell me that's a coincidence.   O0

Might just be Gibbs
Eddie B and big Sam didn't have the same spells. :D

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #164 –
Quote from: laj – on
It would've taken a couple of years for the draft picks to take affect. Even then we landed Simmo, Walker as a PP and Nick Stevens through the PSD. Pagan was past it when he got to Carlton and totally lost the players. Let's not rewrite things too much. Soon as we sacked him we were very competitive the next year and in the finals within 2 years from an absolute basket case.

Three number one picks, a number two pick, and Judd, not to mention Fevola, Stevens, Waite, Betts and another couple of hacks.
I won't get into yet another Pagan v Ratten barney, I'll only say that they were both bad appointments appointed for the wrong reasons, as was Malthouse.
We've lurched from one disaster to the next, and they've all been of our own making.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.