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Topic: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle (Read 59504 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #195 –
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Bring back Wallsy!!!

Interesting.

Last 5 coaches under 50% including to high profile coaches.   Maybe Palmer is onto something.

The game has past him by.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #196 –
The structure we now have is correct, the problem is implementation, both on and off field!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #197 –
Quote from: laj – on


We had cream at the top but crap in the bottom half. The 2011 SF had 8.players off the rookie list. Other than Judd we had all those players were there under Pagan. Say what you want about Ratten he turned us from a basket case to finalist in 2 years.


We have become extremely emotive and reactive with our decision making.  Ironically with Ratten had we reviewed our situation properly we might have simply moved forward with him rather than changing to Malthouse. 

We have applied the same emotive decision making we used to sack Brittain, Appoint Pagan, Sack Pagan, Appoint Ratten, sack Ratten and then appoint Malthouse.  The club appear to have finally learned their lesson, and have sacked Malthouse for good reason, and then appointed Bolton with the appropriate decision making lacking from our football club in it's history.  Let's not go further back.  Football has been a very different business since the millenium, and it took us 15 years to come to gripps with the decision making required to suit the current era.  The problem is, we might be 15 years too late, and therefore still a bit behind the others today, but we can catch up quickly if we leave the footy team alone and start focussing on the rest of the place and what we need to get better at (simply running the place for a start).


Quote from: laj – on
Abysmal? You're F joking. We had generally an ordinary side and we got to play finals within 2 years after being a basket case like we are now. Open your eyes and have a look at his record compared to every other coach since 2001. Would've been alot more interesting if he had SOS as his List Manager rather than that dud Wayne Hughes, given we were close to a PF one year. We turned other sinto hacks, he turned us around. Imagine a coach a Carlton recently having a better than 50% record, playing finals, and in the year he was sacked for Malthouse he still won 11 games in  an injury hit year. We'd kill for that now. He did way better than Pagan and Malthouse, two "gun" coaches. while you talk about abysmal appointments I'll point to the scoreboard. I know who wins that one.

Without reinventing the wheel and covering off the old territory of this one I think we are at the point, where the only tangible information we can draw from any of this period is that the decision making of the footy club is more broken.

I had this opinion once before.  Its simply time to stop meddling in the football part of the football club, and start looking at the methodology behind running the place, which speaks for why we changed from Steven Trigg to Cain Liddle.  I am most enthused that Liddle has not appeared to do much aside from make a simple statement about our club culture which was 110% on the money.  We got ourselves into this situation and we will get ourselves out of it.


Quote from: LP – on
The structure we now have is correct, the problem is implementation, both on and off field!

Yep.  An often quoted statement at my place of employment.  We need to do better with the things we have, rather than look to add to them, or make changes and bring in more people.  For some time, we have been adding people to our footy club, and then dragging them down to our level.  We need to start doing the opposite and have people come in, and start bringing us up to their level. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #198 –
Cast your eye over Ratten's side of 2009 and you'll find 8 or 10 players who were either A grade or not far from it, do the same over this week's team and you'll struggle to find three.
That's the bottom line, it's a culmination of two decades of neglect and incompetence.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #199 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Cast your eye over Ratten's side of 2009 and you'll find 8 or 10 players who were either A grade or not far from it, do the same over this week's team and you'll struggle to find three.
That's the bottom line, it's a culmination of two decades of neglect and incompetence.

That might be true, but it's hard to blame Ratten for that and we might say similar about the current mob playing footy for us in 9 years time.

The recruitment of players under his tenure, says more about us than it did about Ratten.  The senior coach shouldnt be having as large an influence on list management as that because it becomes reactive.

There is a theme emerging that we need to spend a little more of our time doing critical analysis on.  We need to stop looking at the figures involved, and start looking at how the decisions were/are made.  To some degree individuals are part of that process, but on most levels of organisation people often do the best they can with the tools at their disposal.

We are looking at Bolton looking similarly befuddled as Ratten did back in 2012 and malthouse did in 2015.  There endeth the comparison.  Now we need to learn how to stop it from happening again and that's how you know we have progressed.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #201 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
That might be true, but it's hard to blame Ratten for that and we might say similar about the current mob playing footy for us in 9 years time

I'm not blaming Ratten in any shape or form, what I'm attempting to do is to explain the relative success that Ratten enjoyed in his first few seasons as compared to the situation Bolton finds himself in today.
The team we've been fielding over much of this season is as weak or weaker than anything Pagan had at his disposal, so I really don't know what more people expect.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #202 –
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
Bring back Wallsy!!!

Interesting.

Last 5 coaches under 50% including to high profile coaches.   Maybe Palmer is onto something.
What is Palmer trying to say in his tweet, do you think?

What happened to him at CFC? How many seasons was he with us, I don’t even recall him tbh!  But if it’s just some hack that didn’t work hard enough to make it then why TF do we care what he has to say?

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #203 –
Quote from: Micky0 – on
What is Palmer trying to say in his tweet, do you think?

What happened to him at CFC? How many seasons was he with us, I don’t even recall him tbh!  But if it’s just some hack that didn’t work hard enough to make it then why TF do we care what he has to say?

He played 1 game in the seniors, and was only with us for 1 season. I guess he had plenty of time on his hands to survey the joint.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #204 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
He played 1 game in the seniors, and was only with us for 1 season. I guess he had plenty of time on his hands to survey the joint.

He also has refused every media request to elaborate. Fairly gutless really, throw on from behind then run away. Maybe that was the attitude he has for the 12 months and was therefore not required.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #205 –
Quote from: townsendcalling – on
He also has refused every media request to elaborate. Fairly gutless really, throw on from behind then run away. Maybe that was the attitude he has for the 12 months and was therefore not required.

The reports I remember for the VFL last season had him as a good consistent performer. Maybe what you say is true, or maybe he's aggrieved because the club doesn't reward good form.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #206 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
The reports I remember for the VFL last season had him as a good consistent performer. Maybe what you say is true, or maybe he's aggrieved because the club doesn't reward good form.

Was always very surprised he didn'r get more games. Clearly, a very capable player with a strong work ethic.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #207 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
The reports I remember for the VFL last season had him as a good consistent performer. Maybe what you say is true, or maybe he's aggrieved because the club doesn't reward good form.

Likely he is disgruntled but that doesn't change the fact he is might just be the type to call it as he sees it.

We have won 2 of 22...…..and some loses this year have been downright awful and I myself doubted in the first half on Saturday if the players cared at all - certainly didn't play like a desperate team to get a win at home against an interstate mob who rarely win away and yet after an hour of indoors footy we were goal less.

So are Palmers comments that unbelievable?  Or is it just that they are coming from what many say is a big mouth that we have an out to discredit his comments. 

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #208 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Likely he is disgruntled but that doesn't change the fact he is might just be the type to call it as he sees it.

We have won 2 of 22...…..and some loses this year have been downright awful and I myself doubted in the first half on Saturday if the players cared at all - certainly didn't play like a desperate team to get a win at home against an interstate mob who rarely win away and yet after an hour of indoors footy we were goal less.

So are Palmers comments that unbelievable?  Or is it just that they are coming from what many say is a big mouth that we have an out to discredit his comments.

Personally, I'm not swayed one way or the other, and I'm not fussed by what Palmer says or doesn't say. As I have said a few times, we have 4 teams, and they're all terrible. There's nothing more that needs to be said in my view. Our culture is in plain sight.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle

Reply #209 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Personally, I'm not swayed one way or the other, and I'm not fussed by what Palmer says or doesn't say. As I have said a few times, we have 4 teams, and they're all terrible. There's nothing more that needs to be said in my view. Our culture is in plain sight.
Can you have a good culture and lose games? Can you have a bad culture and win premierships?
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership