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Topic: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane (Read 68268 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #120 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
It's quite possible that the rebuild is really just scratching the surface. Maybe deep down in the guts, the club isn't really doing the hard yards, because they've never really had to. Player development is a big tell for me. We've never really had to do it, and we still may not be doing it. Certainly looks that way.

We spent the first decade of the draft telling the world that it was a restraint of trade that wouldn't stand up in court, we didn't put any time or resources into it so we never became proficient at it.
We had the same attitude to the salary cap, that it didn't apply to us, and that ended in tears.
It's only in the last couple of years that we've finally realised that our way of doing things no longer worked, but by then we were so far behind the eight ball that what other clubs had done to get off the bottom wouldn't work for us.
So we decided on a ground up rebuild, but we'd never done it before and we are having all sorts of problems getting it right.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #121 –
I reckon Weitering's issues stem back to Jones' revival, you cant play two intercept specialists. Since then the lad has looked lost. Here's an idea, trade out Liam, and potentially resurrect a former number one pick to manage the defence whilst Doc moves into the midfield. He would fit into GC's back six easily.
I was there, Blight missed!!!
 

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #122 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
So we decided on a ground up rebuild, but we'd never done it before and we are having all sorts of problems getting it right.

I think many of us get that B4L, but it doesn't explain the lack of passion or sacrifice we see on the field, or the lack of structure!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #123 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I'm thinking of clubs like Geelong (Thompson), Pies (Buckley) and Richmond (Hardwick), who figured out if their coach was the right person for the job, and then stuck with him through the tough times, and gave him all the support he needed.

I don't know if Bolton is the right man for the job. But he doesn't have much to work with.

He's had good draftees and sent a few backwards. That excuse works if we finished on 6 wins, even 5, not ONE. We won 7 and 6 games last year and led 7 times in the last qtr last year and lost. Now one win. Some players are at the stage of stepping up to cover for losses to an extent.

They were finals like sides. Geelong and Richmond had been regular finalists before a down year. they were always fighting back regardless. Much different to winning ONE game in a year.

Collingwood has one win against a side in the 8 all year and that was Melbourne. Lost when they've played anyone any good. no side has has a draw open up and be so easy. they still have Richmond, Port, Sydney, West Coast etc to play yet.

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #124 –
Quote from: hanwell – on
I reckon Weitering's issues stem back to Jones' revival, you cant play two intercept specialists. Since then the lad has looked lost. Here's an idea, trade out Liam, and potentially resurrect a former number one pick to manage the defence whilst Doc moves into the midfield. He would fit into GC's back six easily.

There's alot in that.

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #125 –
Quote from: LP – on
Are those examples valid, were they in the same situation, or did they have the actual talent that was being wasted, do we actually have the talent?

Thompson had some talent, as well as Dank and The Weapon but psst, psst! You must not mention that!

Buckley, the jury is out!

Hardwick had an epiphany watching Frozen, and Let it Go! But credit when credit is due, he had to sack a bunch of controlling megalomaniacs to move forward!

If we don't have the talent, why sack the coach ? Won't the next coach have the same problems ? Since 2000, we've had Parkin, Brittain, Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Barker and Bolton. That must be close to an AFL/VFL record, even if you take Barker out. And look where we are. And yet people think we should sack Bolton.

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #126 –
Quote from: hanwell – on
I reckon Weitering's issues stem back to Jones' revival, you cant play two intercept specialists. Since then the lad has looked lost. Here's an idea, trade out Liam, and potentially resurrect a former number one pick to manage the defence whilst Doc moves into the midfield. He would fit into GC's back six easily.

Why the feck hasn't the club let Jones create his chaos inside F50, instead of bombing the ball long onto Charlie Curnow's head predictably time after time after time?

Put him on the wing, or even the ruck, most of his good football in the VFL before his revival last season came as a result of playing in the ruck under Fraser's tutor-ledge!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #127 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
We spent the first decade of the draft telling the world that it was a restraint of trade that wouldn't stand up in court, we didn't put any time or resources into it so we never became proficient at it.
We had the same attitude to the salary cap, that it didn't apply to us, and that ended in tears.
It's only in the last couple of years that we've finally realised that our way of doing things no longer worked, but by then we were so far behind the eight ball that what other clubs had done to get off the bottom wouldn't work for us.
So we decided on a ground up rebuild, but we'd never done it before and we are having all sorts of problems getting it right.

As far as summaries go, that's not bad.

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #128 –
I'd happily trade Jones for a half decent midfielder, there's certainly merit in that

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #129 –
Quote from: LP – on
Why the feck hasn't the club let Jones create his chaos inside F50, instead of bombing the ball long onto Charlie Curnow's head predictably time after time after time?

Put him on the wing, or even the ruck, most of his good football in the VFL before his revival last season came as a result of playing in the ruck under Fraser's tutor-ledge!

Yes, that was the case. I enjoyed watching him run around the ground in the ruck taking 1000 marks. Scared the living crap out of the opposition physically. Not only that he become a much better forward too when he went there. These are thing Bolton should be looking at. He's too scared to change. jones defensive role should be Weitering's. He'd play alot better then.

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #130 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
And look where we are. And yet people think we should sack Bolton.

Like I said, I don't know what the answer is, but I can see big problems on match day that are not explained by the talent, and I'm not sure those comparisons to other clubs are valid because none of the coaches were in this rebuild situation as a result of their own clubs doing!

Have you watched a Nthmond game in which you can credit the win on the coaches moves? I can recall coaches like Clarkson, Matthews, Roos and Longmire doing stuff that won them matches, but Dimma? Has there ever been a game that has had everyone talking post match about that Dimma inspired move that won Nthmond the game?

Who takes the credit for Nthmond, Dimma or ...........?

Who takes he blame for Carlton, Bolton or .................. ?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #131 –
Quote from: LP – on
Like I said, I don't know what the answer is, but I can see big problems on match day that are not explained by the talent, and I'm not sure those comparisons are valid because none of the coaches were in this rebuild situation as a result of their own clubs doing!

Have you watched a Nthmond game in which you can credit the win on the coaches moves? I can recall coaches like Clarkson, Matthews, Roos and Longmire doing stuff that won them matches, but Dimma? Has there ever been a game that has had everyone talking post match about that Dimma inspired move that won Nthmond the game?

Who takes the credit for Nthmond, Dimma or ...........?

I guess the Martin to Full Forward was his signature move but now he has Caddy down there he doesnt do it as often....

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #133 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
If we don't have the talent, why sack the coach ? Won't the next coach have the same problems ? Since 2000, we've had Parkin, Brittain, Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Barker and Bolton. That must be close to an AFL/VFL record, even if you take Barker out. And look where we are. And yet people think we should sack Bolton.
We continue to pick the wrong coaches. Brittain, who had never played the game, took us from PF to the spoon in two years, we took Pagan and Malthouse on reputation as hopeful messiahs, old coaches way past their best, game had passed them by, and Bolton, the other extreme, young coach who, like Brittain had never played AFL, never a great idea with a zero success rate with Victorian clubs, who's not up to the task of a big rebuild.

The one that did improve us against the odds was Ratten and we sacked him with an 11-10 record just to show what a decent coach can do. We'd kill for that. He took us from the pits of crape to finalists in two years with a pretty average side hampered by poor recruiting. Cream at the top, crape at the bottom.

No, a good coach will improve things. Beveridge being a good example. Dogs were below us when he took over and they were premiers within two years. We are going backwards at a million miles an hour, can't go on like this.

Re: 2018 Rd 15: Post Game Pain: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #134 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
If we don't have the talent, why sack the coach ? Won't the next coach have the same problems ? Since 2000, we've had Parkin, Brittain, Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Barker and Bolton. That must be close to an AFL/VFL record, even if you take Barker out. And look where we are. And yet people think we should sack Bolton.
We have a list full of talent that is under performing.

Individuals not giving their best in a system that doesn't allow them to. We consistently set up in the wrong places around the ground, repeatedly watch the opposition exploit the same defensive failings in our tactics, move the ball slowly rather than take the game or run together in offence and fail to offer anything resembling pressure around the ground.

The zone defence doesn't work and we keep making baffling player selections. We all see it, the commentators see it and it appears that the players know it. The only people not seeing it are the match committe, Bolton and the coaching panel.

Rather than clear out the list (again) and try the same deficient coaches with a new group I'd rather see the same players given a new game plan, coaching group and development plan (and maybe medical support so they aren't playing injured)