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Topic: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn (Read 51245 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #76 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
I used to live up the road from Bowater Scott in Box Hill......

EB, you may find this amusing:

Scotties is a facial tissue brand originally owned by the Scott Paper Company. Created in 1955, it is noted for its emphasis on softness......................Wikipeadia

Maybe we should be looking for a sponsorship deal??  :o
Reality always wins in the end.
 

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #77 –
Quote from: blue4life on
Sorry mate but I don't buy it.
It was Brittain's fault, then Pagan's, then Ratten's, then Malthouse, and now Bolton?
Nah.

We were right to sack Brittain, Pagan and Malthouse. In hindsight, perhaps not Ratten. Are you saying we should have kept Pagan and Malthouse? We actually paid a heavy price to hanging on to them for too long!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #78 –
Quote from: laj on
Please! I hate the "Bolton can't do it for them" saying. It's his job to make sure they do them. That's one reason why they train. If they can't even do the basics right then why is he in a job. All that above is his job. Buck stops with him.

So a good horse trainer can take a hack running around on the picnic circuit and turn it into a Cup winner?
The bald facts are that of all the players we drafted between 2007 and 2014 only Kreuzer, Rowe, Graham and Cripps are still at the club, and two of those are on borrowed time.
That's effectively 8 years of the draft up in smoke, but somehow it's Bolton's fault that we've bottomed out in 2018.
I don't buy it.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #79 –
Quote from: blue4life on
Sorry mate but I don't buy it.
It was Brittain's fault, then Pagan's, then Ratten's, then Malthouse, and now Bolton?
Nah.

Wasn't Ratten's faullt. They sacked him after an injury ridden 11 wins from 21 games in 2012.

We have selected a novice coach who never played...no good, then we select a dinosaur...no good, he was past it, then we selected a novice coached who had played, did a pretty good job, we sack him for another dinosaur that's past it...no good, so we select another novice coach who has played AFL,, back to the bottom of the ladder.

See the pattern. We are poor at selecting the right coaches. We got one selection right, the young coach who had played, did a good job, the rest no good for various reasons. All those others sent us to the bottom. You just have to keep changing them until you get the right one. You'll get it right eventually, even Richmond eventually got one right.

Clarko's rebuild resulted in finals in 3 years, premiers year 4
Hardwick's rebuild 10 wins 3rd year, finals 4th year
Roos rebuild, starting from 2 wins got to 10 wins by year 3
Bolton's rebuild, bottom year 3, almost winless, albeit injuries but totally terrible.

We have alot of good youngsters out there, some very good, we have more established one's like Kennedy, Marchbank, Murphy, Simmo, Ed Curnow, Cripps. Kreuzer most weeks. Mightn't go through to 22 but much better than the near winless season we are producing, with the poor game plan that confuses players, the terrible skills, the lack of effort etc.. That coaching! We go out of our way to draft kids with kicking skills. What happens to them when they come to Carlton?

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #80 –
Quote from: Baggers on
We were right to sack Brittain, Pagan and Malthouse. In hindsight, perhaps not Ratten. Are you saying we should have kept Pagan and Malthouse? We actually paid a heavy price to hanging on to them for too long!

I'm saying that we've been blaming coaches for much deeper seated problems for far too long and that we're in danger of repeating the same mistake.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #81 –
Quote from: blue4life on
I'm saying that we've been blaming coaches for much deeper seated problems for far too long and that we're in danger of repeating the same mistake.

You'd have to think that the problems run a lot deeper than just the coach. If we can't identify the root cause(s) of our predicament we will never get out of it!
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #82 –
Quote from: blue4life on
So a good horse trainer can take a hack running around on the picnic circuit and turn it into a Cup winner?
The bald facts are that of all the players we drafted between 2007 and 2014 only Kreuzer, Rowe, Graham and Cripps are still at the club, and two of those are on borrowed time.
That's effectively 8 years of the draft up in smoke, but somehow it's Bolton's fault that we've bottomed out in 2018.
I don't buy it.


A near winless season is the coach's fault.

I coach athlete's from elite to grass roots. Thee role of good coaching is to get the best out of every athlete whether they win an Olympic medal to simply give their personal best times a good smacking. Hence the job of a coach, horse trainer is to get players to play to their potential. We are far from that. Don't argue that one with me. We are alot better than what we are showing. We have a number of youngsters with alot of ability with enough decent established players to be better than this.

Bet you said the same thing in 2007 as well. We played finals 2 years later. We suddenly found blokes were actually better than what we thought even if alot of them weren't that talented. Maybe because we had the only coach that was half decent since 2000.

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #83 –
Quote from: Lods on
The issue with today wasn't a lack of effort.
We were just outclassed.
The fact that we were able to kick a few goals in a row indicates we were still trying....their effort just dropped off.
Clarkson wouldn't have been happy...and any day that Clarkson isn't happy can't be all bad. ;)
You're right Lods re: outclassed. One passage of play summed it up for me, it was a contest between Breust and Shaw deep in their fwd 50. Triple premiership player versus GC reject, goal to Breust. The gulf in experience was blatantly apparent.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #84 –
Quote from: blue4life on
I'm saying that we've been blaming coaches for much deeper seated problems for far too long and that we're in danger of repeating the same mistake.

I don't think it's either / or. It's both. But hard to tell which is failing more... poor development/skills, or coaching. One thing is for certain and that is we are lacking discipline and game plan understanding.

That's 3 hidings in a row and we see no sign of hurt from the senior coach. That concerns me. It's as if everyone has accepted we're sh1te and everything is pinned on next year being better with new players and less injuries.

I've mentioned it before but I would love an independent assessment/audit of the club. I am confident we're heading in the right direction, but not so confident in terms of the people in charge/driving the new direction.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #85 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
You'd have to think that the problems run a lot deeper than just the coach. If we can't identify the root cause(s) of our predicament we will never get out of it!

I think that the root cause is our abysmal recruiting over an extended period which has left us bereft of good quality senior players in the 25 to 30 age group.
The problem is that it can't be fixed in one, two or three years, it's a long process to build a list virtually from scratch.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #86 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
EB, you may find this amusing:

Scotties is a facial tissue brand originally owned by the Scott Paper Company. Created in 1955, it is noted for its emphasis on softness......................Wikipeadia

Maybe we should be looking for a sponsorship deal??  :o

Cookie,..We should use it for the banner...my money's on the Scotties, our blokes would get bruised going through the banner.... :P ....er well some might make it through :-X

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #87 –
@ Jim

How is it Jim that we just seem incapable of getting hold of and sustaining the right coach?? What is stopping us from doing that?
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #88 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
You'd have to think that the problems run a lot deeper than just the coach. If we can't identify the root cause(s) of our predicament we will never get out of it!

Last time we had a decent coach, the only one since 2000, we went from a similar basket case to finals in 2 years. You'll be surprised what coaching does. The coach and the recruiter are everything. Look what happen at Port when they swapped from Primus to Hinkley. Horrible to finals in one year.

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #89 –
Quote from: laj on
Last time we had a decent coach, the only one since 2000, we went from a similar basket case to finals in 2 years. You'll be surprised what coaching does. The coach and the recruiter are everything. Look what happen at Port when they swapped from Primus to Hinkley. Horrible to finals in one year.

Ok Jim, before you sneak off to Europe who do we replace Bolton with and do we continue with the rebuild as is or do we need to reset the rebuild?...