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Topic: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn (Read 72856 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #195 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
And yet the consensus of this place is that Mitchell gets it a lot, but does nothing with it, and if he does nothing with it why bother tagging ?
Move Ed you say... BB thought Smith was the more damaging of the two and needed to be clamped.

Mitchell had about 12 scoring involvements.......DE of 78% and 9 tackles
Coaches votes below

CARLTON v HAWTHORN
10 Tom Mitchell (HAW)
7 Luke Breust (HAW)
7 Paul Puopolo (HAW)
4 James Worpel (HAW)
1 Ricky Henderson (HAW)

Our coach is an idiot......
 

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #196 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Mitchell had about 12 scoring involvements.......DE of 78% and 9 tackles
Coaches votes below

CARLTON v HAWTHORN
10 Tom Mitchell (HAW)
7 Luke Breust (HAW)
7 Paul Puopolo (HAW)
4 James Worpel (HAW)
1 Ricky Henderson (HAW)

Our coach is an idiot......

That’s all 20/20 hindsight mate.
Make that call at 1/4 time and watch Smith rip us a new one.
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t...
Let’s go BIG !

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #197 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
That’s all 20/20 hindsight mate.
Make that call at 1/4 time and watch Smith rip us a new one.
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t...

Thats BS...Mitchell has been racking them up for weeks now and had 14 possies in the 1st quarter, OMeara was out and they had Worpel and ORourke as their
2nd and 3rd mids....dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure out who to tag either before the game or after Mitchell had racked up 14 possies in the 1st quarter.
Bolton is inept tactically and not the first time he has fecked up like this...Mitchell had 43 the week before at DE of 83%...how can you let a player like Mitchell run around
unopposed?

Here is Paul Roos opinion below... IMHO we dont have a clue in the coaches box and how our kids can progress I dont know...

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carltons-handling-of-hawthorn-star-tom-mitchell-was-indefensible-says-paul-roos/news-story/84a201a1fd4273316f4f9176cf3d9fa1

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #199 –
Needed analysis to determine how Smith gets his possessions.  If he is a high hand ball received kind of player you clamp down on the earlier link in the chain - Mitchell.  That's Barkers job,  you know the master strategist in the box who clearly has mastered snakes and ladders, not chess.

Personally I would have clamped Mitchell and as I said pre-match,  run LoB on Smith.   Smith is a high impact player but can't impact if he hasn't got the pill.   These moves are so obvious I start thinking about the old tanking chestnut.

I've mentioned this more than once - BB gets the heat but WTF do blokes like Barker contribute?  
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #200 –
Bolton is one of many coaches who don't tag Mitchell. When you are in the position we're in, every decision looks like the wrong one.

Say we did put a heavy tag on Mitchell - what then ? Instead of 46 possessions, maybe he gets 20 odd. Instead of 9 tackles, maybe he lays 4. Instead of 2 goals 2, maybe he kicks 1 goal, or simply 2 behinds. Then what ? Hawks still win easily.

Tagging is very over rated, and a minor problem for us in the greater scheme of things. Our biggest problems are in the areas of ball movement, skill execution, player experience and injury, and all the taggers in the world won't help with that.

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #201 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Bolton is one of many coaches who don't tag Mitchell. When you are in the position we're in, every decision looks like the wrong one.

Say we did put a heavy tag on Mitchell - what then ? Instead of 46 possessions, maybe he gets 20 odd. Instead of 9 tackles, maybe he lays 4. Instead of 2 goals 2, maybe he kicks 1 goal, or simply 2 behinds. Then what ? Hawks still win easily.

Tagging is very over rated, and a minor problem for us in the greater scheme of things. Our biggest problems are in the areas of ball movement, skill execution, player experience and injury, and all the taggers in the world won't help with that.

Your right, our biggest problem is ball movement but not ours, the oppositions.
Our pressure, the stuff that we would be judged on, is terrible.
Our "zone defence" is woeful. Opposition simply play right through the middle of it week after week, and we keep doing the same crap.
Maybe we need to do the small things better Paul, like impacting the effectiveness of the oppositions best player.
Pressure him so he isn't as effective by foot which might mean he has 3 score involvements not 12.

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #202 –
Quote
Tagging is very over rated

One of the more vacuous comments I've heard on here for some time....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #203 –
Quote from: JonHenry – on
Your right, our biggest problem is ball movement but not ours, the oppositions.
Our pressure, the stuff that we would be judged on, is terrible.
Our "zone defence" is woeful. Opposition simply play right through the middle of it week after week, and we keep doing the same crap.
Maybe we need to do the small things better Paul, like impacting the effectiveness of the oppositions best player.
Pressure him so he isn't as effective by foot which might mean he has 3 score involvements not 12.

So we put a heavy tag on Mitchell, coach looks like a genius, and we lose by 9 or 10 goals instead of 12. Job done ?

Look, the coach isn't an idiot - he is quite aware of the pros and cons of tagging Mitchell. There's plenty of 50/50 decisions that you need to make as a coach. No coach has the manpower to cover all the bases, so you need to make a choice, and because Mitchell had a day out, folks say Bolton is an idiot. I say no, he isn't.

Tagging is not the same as general field pressure, 1%ers etc. At least not in my book.

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #204 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Tagging is not the same as general field pressure, 1%ers etc. At least not in my book.

Tagging is greatly diminished now, the faster ball movement of the current game styles means having a guy who just stops is a luxury teams cannot afford!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #205 –
Tagging is undervalued and a waste of time? but the bloke coaching the other team who is a multi premiership winning coach found it important enough to tag Cripps and send someone to belt him??

Think I'll stick with Clarkson and Roos ....We are clueless in the coaching box...Mitchell is the brownlow favourite and has been dominating, it was a no brainer.....

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #206 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Tagging is undervalued and a waste of time? but the bloke coaching the other team who is a multi premiership winning coach found it important enough to tag Cripps and send someone to belt him??

Think I'll stick with Clarkson and Roos ....We are clueless in the coaching box...Mitchell is the brownlow favourite and has been dominating, it was a no brainer.....

 ;D
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #207 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Tagging is undervalued and a waste of time? but the bloke coaching the other team who is a multi premiership winning coach found it important enough to tag Cripps and send someone to belt him??

Think I'll stick with Clarkson and Roos ....We are clueless in the coaching box...Mitchell is the brownlow favourite and has been dominating, it was a no brainer.....

Ed tagged Smith and did a much better job than Howe did on Cripps.  Clarkson should really have tried someone else on Cripps if he really wanted to curb his influence.  He probably should have had someone on Murphy too as he was second to Mitchell in metres gained.

Mitchell is rarely tagged, and I don’t believe that it’s all down to Buckley dismissing his impact.  Interestingly, Mitchell didn’t attract any coaches’ votes in his previous >40 possession game.  He reminds me of Ablett jnr at his best; a very good player who inflated his performances with inconsequential possessions.

I was happy to see our young blokes going head to head with Mitchell.  That will do much more for their development and the team’s progress than having Ed trying to lock Mitchell down.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #208 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Thats BS...Mitchell has been racking them up for weeks now and had 14 possies in the 1st quarter, OMeara was out and they had Worpel and ORourke as their
2nd and 3rd mids....dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure out who to tag either before the game or after Mitchell had racked up 14 possies in the 1st quarter.
Bolton is inept tactically and not the first time he has fecked up like this...Mitchell had 43 the week before at DE of 83%...how can you let a player like Mitchell run around
unopposed?

Here is Paul Roos opinion below... IMHO we dont have a clue in the coaches box and how our kids can progress I dont know...

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carltons-handling-of-hawthorn-star-tom-mitchell-was-indefensible-says-paul-roos/news-story/84a201a1fd4273316f4f9176cf3d9fa1

Glad this was brought up. I watched On The Couch last night and always like Roos' insights/thoughts. Damning for BB or whoever the hell is running our coach's box (Barker?). "Indefensible... no brainer" etc re tagging either of Smith or Mitchell with Ed then tag the other with a kid to help him learn... yep, no brainer.

Our coaching box can't be so dumb, the only logical explanation is tanking.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: 2018 Rd 17: Post Game whatever : Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #209 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Tagging is undervalued and a waste of time? but the bloke coaching the other team who is a multi premiership winning coach found it important enough to tag Cripps and send someone to belt him??

Think I'll stick with Clarkson and Roos ....We are clueless in the coaching box...Mitchell is the brownlow favourite and has been dominating, it was a no brainer.....

And Cripps' output was about normal, which proves my point. 30 disposals, 2 goals 1, 7 tackles. The tagger did little to quell his influence, and was effectively wasted. Even with their injuries, the Hawks could cover one man doing this job.

We have very limited resources. We can barely kick 80 points per game with 22 fit players and no taggers - how is playing 2 taggers going to help us ?

Whinging about tagging is one of the classic supporter lines. Through no fault of anyone of us, we are simply not privy to what happens in match committee meetings, in the coaches box etc. We can only react to simple scenarios - understandable but frustrating for all of us. Not playing a tag on Mitchell is part of a larger picture, which we don't know about.

When you have players kicking numerous set shots oof, when you have a team that are serial turnover merchants, when you have a team of kids and numpties struggling with zone defense, clearly Bolton has bigger problems than a tag.