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Topic: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide (Read 29918 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #30 –
Polsons best game by a mile and showed he can actually play a bit. Good to see reward for effort because he sure does try. that's the only new thing i learned that was positive.

We need Fisher, Dow and Sheil in the middle with Cripps, and still somehow keep pick 1 for Walsh.  With support from SPS and Kennedy that would be a quality midfield for a long time.

Maybe on tonight's effort we can be assured of a better PP.  It should be pretty early in the first round based on our recent history, but i suspect it will be mid to late first round thanks to the moaning from other clubs. Still not enough to land Sheil by itself but i'd hand over pick 11 (or whatever it ends up being) plus next years first rounder and maybe get Setterfield too. 

We must improve significantly next year.  On the field and in the coaches box.

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #31 –
Thank god thats over. Here's to 2019.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #32 –
Quote from: laj – on
Just found we won the inside 50s 61-54. In what football universe does that happens and you lose by 100pts. That is the poorest form of coaching imaginable. Injuries cant excuse that as we're good enough to at least get it and kick it in there.but have such a poor system, plan etc that we are getting zero from it.and getting slammed on the rebound. Playing modern footy is something we don't have a clue about.

It tells you that we have figured out a pattern of ball movement to get the ball where we want it to be, which is a good thing. It also tells you that we haven't figured out the rest, which is an indication as I've said repeatedly, that we have a mountain of work to do.

No coach encourages the players to turn the ball over, no coach encourages players to allow their tackles to be broken, to miss easy set shots, to miss shots on the run etc.

Our malaise runs deeper than the coach, deeper than the supposed wussy captain, and certainly much deeper than a PP.

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #33 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Coaching very average tonight Jim...Laird allowed to sit off the play on his own and rack up the possies.....coaching box needs a shakeup..

Even two of the commentators on FOX (ex players, Brown was one) were having digs at BBs coaching... never heard that from either of them before and you could hear they were hesitant and didn't want to nail BB but the coaching was just so bad it had to be mentioned.

There was nothing in last night's (or the season for that matter) coaching to instill any confidence in this little black duck that BBs the man for next year. Nuh. It'll be more of the same.

It was the last game of the year, the players should have been fired up and enthusiastic to enjoy the night... instead they seemed clueless, directionless, spiritless, confused and lethargic. It was a disgrace. The jumper was humiliated and you can't take that back.

I understand folks look for positives and to find reasons (injuries etc) for last night's debacle.... but the reality is this group needs a strong, experienced senior coach, a leader. Because BB sure as hell has lost them, and the blow-torch should be on others in the coaching box... Barker... vamoose please.

It should have been the easiest gig of the year, getting blokes up for the last game. Nuh. The players sent a very clear message to all and sundry last night in terms of their understanding of the game plan, and those who sell it to them.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #34 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
It tells you that we have figured out a pattern of ball movement to get the ball where we want it to be, which is a good thing. It also tells you that we haven't figured out the rest, which is an indication as I've said repeatedly, that we have a mountain of work to do.

No coach encourages the players to turn the ball over, no coach encourages players to allow their tackles to be broken, to miss easy set shots, to miss shots on the run etc.

Our malaise runs deeper than the coach, deeper than the supposed wussy captain, and certainly much deeper than a PP.
I think it actually means we get the ball into our forward line with meaningless entries that don't give our forwards enough to work with (but when it does get there, there also isn't enough defensive pressure to keep it there) and that our 'zone' is the worst defensive structure since the Maginot line.

Our forward ball movement is virtually non-existent. When we do try and link up and run together it can be good, but it is often derailed by someone miskicking or dropping simple marks (looking at you Ed Butterfingers Curnow). We then spend most of the game kicking long down the boundary line for safety in the hope that Charlie or Big Harry can beat the 2-3 opposition players who have lined up to stop them. The brilliant part is our initiative to first slowly switch play by kicking backwards a few times, before then kicking long down the line in hope. How can we expect to move the ball forward when we have 5 players anchored in the back 50 waiting for the switch all the time? That's nearly a third of our players sitting back while the opposition sets up across the ground to outnumber us everywhere else.

As for our defence, the way players just guard space is infuriating. So many times through the season, and especially last night, we saw our guys jog into the spot they've been told to occupy in team meetings only to stand by while the opposition runs harder through all the spaces, works the ball forward with ease and kicks to someone who has managed to 'sneak' back behind our last line of defence to take an easy mark or run onto a loose ball.

Our game plan is broken and our structures and systems don't work. We can bring in all the top end talent and draft picks we like but if we don't improve our skills, work rate and game plan in 2019 we're going nowhere. We have got to abandon the zone in 2019 to play some accountable 1 on 1 footy or at worst, drop just 1 player back loose behind play.
 

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #35 –
Barbs, I don't deny that there is a problem with our zone, and I'm not sure if the players are too young / too dumb to make adjustments when required, if the coaches aren't communicating properly etc. There are many reasons. Docherty is so far and away our best and smartest defender it's just not funny. We have the very experienced Daisy and Simmo acting as on field back line generals, and yet they cannot marshall the troops ? And for this Bolton should be sacked ? People seem to forget our zone was rock solid in 2016 and 2017 - people think Bolton is suffering amnesia ?

I don't have any allegiance to Bolton, I just think laying it all at the coach's feet is a cop out answer to our current predicament.

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #36 –
Out tackled 70 to 50 by a Softish crows outfit.   Disgraceful.

Formula for success is simple:

Eliminate/minimise disposal errors
Draft/trade in a midfield

100 percent work rate 100 percent of the time

Develop a system to move the ball forwards.
Piss off the zone defence and learn to play simple,  traditional "beat your opponent" defence. 

Don't front up next year Bolton without addressing the above or you won't make round five.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #37 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Barbs, I don't deny that there is a problem with our zone, and I'm not sure if the players are too young / too dumb to make adjustments when required, if the coaches aren't communicating properly etc. There are many reasons. Docherty is so far and away our best and smartest defender it's just not funny. We have the very experienced Daisy and Simmo acting as on field back line generals, and yet they cannot marshall the troops ? And for this Bolton should be sacked ? People seem to forget our zone was rock solid in 2016 and 2017 - people think Bolton is suffering amnesia ?

I don't have any allegiance to Bolton, I just think laying it all at the coach's feet is a cop out answer to our current predicament.
The zone was pretty far from solid in 2016 and 2017. If one player, Docherty, missing is all it takes for your defensive structure to fall apart then its a fair indicator that the system isn't particularly robust.

For whatever reason, it doesn't work. The coaches (not just Bolton but all of them) should have seen this already and adapted. But they haven't. It isn't just the backline with Daisy and Simmo though, the zone is a team defence - which is failing because as a team the playing group isn't implementing it.

So yes, that is the job of the coaches (again, not just Bolton). When one of two players continually get things wrong you can blame them. But when an entire playing group isn't running hard you have to look at the coaches. When disposal and skills are woeful across the board, you have to ask what the coaches are doing at training to develop them properly. And finally, when the opposition works out your game plan and thrashes you like this on a number of occasions, you have to question why we stuck with the same game plan each time.

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #38 –
....sails over wide mid on into the stand.

Sticking with the "plan" and expecting better results is insanity.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #39 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
It tells you that we have figured out a pattern of ball movement to get the ball where we want it to be, which is a good thing. It also tells you that we haven't figured out the rest, which is an indication as I've said repeatedly, that we have a mountain of work to do.

No coach encourages the players to turn the ball over, no coach encourages players to allow their tackles to be broken, to miss easy set shots, to miss shots on the run etc.

Our malaise runs deeper than the coach, deeper than the supposed wussy captain, and certainly much deeper than a PP.

You actually.think he should hang around after that? That's where it starts and it now HIS responsibility for our skills. With drafting at least we have put an emphasis on recruiting players will the ability to kick. What happens when they come to Cartlon? Something to do with our plan, structure being so poor that we are continually kicking to outnumbered situations?

Coaching is most of it! Don't make excuses for him. That's excusing failure. You get nowhere doing that. Look at what's happening and the scoreboard. Winning inside 50s 61-54 and losing by 100pts is disgraceful.  How does that happen.

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #40 –
My interpretation of the comentary and my own not-so-well-informed observations (of what I had the strength to actually watch)  bring me to the conclusion that, whilst we lack forward 50 pressure and options atm and far too few precision entries, this reefs back to our poor midfield performance. This also results in excess pressure on the defence.

Our midfield is nowhere near good enough to push forward quickly due to poor skills that lead to punishing turnovers. We can win the ball alright (in large measure down to Cripps) but its what happens (or doesn't happen!) after that. This cripples us and constrains our ability to mount effective attacks on goal especially our poor F50 pressure because we have to stay further back in an attempt to cover the inevitable errors. Too many imes our F50 entries were just gifting the ball back to the Crows. To make it worse we could not cover the Adelaide spread and we did not tackle anywhere near effectively enough

There are probably plenty of other areas of problems but imo that is the major one. We had Lang, Mullet, Murphy, Kerridge, O'Brian, Wright and Ed Curnow (and some would argue others too) all pretty much ineffective last night - we were not surprisingly slaughtered. We just didn't come close to a competitive AFL grade collective midfield . Result - defence under seige again and tall forwards left just looking on for far too much of the time.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #41 –
Just hopped on the HS website for the post mortem.

Tough article but fair.

"On a night when the disillusioned few in navy blue who attended were crying out for a four-quarter effort, they instead got surrender."

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/adelaide-thrashes-carlton-by-104-points-completing-blues-worst-season-in-117-years/news-story/0169255de74cf7476ac7a99ae36c1f7d

The comments section has been invaded by all the well-wishers of other clubs who are satisfied with our performance this year.

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #42 –
Quote
How can we expect to move the ball forward when we have 5 players anchored in the back 50 waiting for the switch all the time? That's nearly a third of our players sitting back while the opposition sets up across the ground to outnumber us everywhere else.

As for our defence, the way players just guard space is infuriating. So many times through the season, and especially last night, we saw our guys jog into the spot they've been told to occupy in team meetings only to stand by while the opposition runs harder through all the spaces, works the ball forward with ease and kicks to someone who has managed to 'sneak' back behind our last line of defence to take an easy mark or run onto a loose ball.

Our game plan is broken and our structures and systems don't work. We can bring in all the top end talent and draft picks we like but if we don't improve our skills, work rate and game plan in 2019 we're going nowhere. We have got to abandon the zone in 2019 to play some accountable 1 on 1 footy or at worst, drop just 1 player back loose behind play.

AGree with this.  WTF did we continue with that zone defence?  It was infuriating sitting up on level 3 watching the turnover occurring 3 kicks before it did.  If i can see that as a member sitting up on level 3, what the f*** are that big group of coaches looking at and why are they not changing it??

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #43 –
I'm happy with the zone style because the coach is expecting them to learn how to play in a way that will win. One on one is for wet days and the bottom leagues. Watch a division one game in local leagues; they play zone.

Its the turnovers that are killing us. We won the inside 50s, which shows we are winning the ball and getting it forward. We then break down and it comes back and we are struggling to get back to position. Playing one one one is not going to improve us much.

One a few occasions this year our approach has worked and we score. Fast ball movement via accurate kicking is very hard to defend. But it requires great skills and being organised and we are struggling to meet these levels.

The coach has high expectations. Good.

Re: 2018 Rd 23: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #44 –
Also I saw plenty of players in our midfield standing back letting Cripps only go in to get the hard ball.  I actually recall one bit of play, I think it was Lang or Mullett, standing there as a bystander when Cripps came from elsewhere and got in there.  Not good enough, to allow Cripps to do the hard yards every single time.

As an aside, thought Marchy was okay.