List Changes 2018

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Re: List Changes

Reply #30 – August 30, 2018, 10:45:54 pm

It's a pretty well known story, also told by Epis. There is a greater context to it when you hear Manton's full story (he has the short, medium and long version - the long one is great) - lazy, entitled and thought he was better than he was.

For Glenn, the right person came at the right time and he was lucky enough to say yes. It is an inspirational story, because it taught him about consistent and persistent hard work and the rewards that can come with it. The sessions continued after '95. Manton tells it in a way that does make it inspirational. No, we're not all going to be superstars, but we can be better (simplistically)

Yes, he is out there, but he wants to make a difference. He has gone on to do some really good work with kids, he helped kick off White Lion, while Glenn can be about Glenn, there is little doubt that he does make a positive difference.

Re: List Changes

Reply #31 – August 30, 2018, 10:49:55 pm

Quote from: dodge – on August 30, 2018, 10:45:54 pm

It's a pretty well known story, also told by Epis. There is a greater context to it when you hear Manton's full story (he has the short, medium and long version - the long one is great) - lazy, entitled and thought he was better than he was.

For Glenn, the right person came at the right time and he was lucky enough to say yes. It is an inspirational story, because it taught him about consistent and persistent hard work and the rewards that can come with it. The sessions continued after '95. Manton tells it in a way that does make it inspirational. No, we're not all going to be superstars, but we can be better (simplistically)

Yes, he is out there, but he wants to make a difference. He has gone on to do some really good work with kids, he helped kick off White Lion, while Glenn can be about Glenn, there is little doubt that he does make a positive difference.

If you're Glenn being about Glenn, but still making a (positive) difference to young people's lives, that's A ok with me...

Re: List Changes

Reply #32 – August 31, 2018, 07:32:46 am

Quote from: dodge – on August 30, 2018, 10:45:54 pm

It's a pretty well known story, also told by Epis. There is a greater context to it when you hear Manton's full story (he has the short, medium and long version - the long one is great) - lazy, entitled and thought he was better than he was.

For Glenn, the right person came at the right time and he was lucky enough to say yes. It is an inspirational story, because it taught him about consistent and persistent hard work and the rewards that can come with it. The sessions continued after '95. Manton tells it in a way that does make it inspirational. No, we're not all going to be superstars, but we can be better (simplistically)

Yes, he is out there, but he wants to make a difference. He has gone on to do some really good work with kids, he helped kick off White Lion, while Glenn can be about Glenn, there is little doubt that he does make a positive difference.

Thanks for that dodge. IMO, the short version should be removed from Manton's repertoire altogether. I find it misleading, omitting key critical information. and can lead certain simpletons among us

to misconstrue his message and say things we may later regret.

The other thing that's worth considering is : who is this story for ? Is it for boozy sports nights, trivia nights etc., or is it really meant as a blueprint / legitimate method to get someone to perform at their best ? In mental health circles, abusing someone (Manton doesn't clarify exactly what this is in the article) would be an absolute no no.

I think it's an outlier, one of those 1 in a million stories, that won't work all that often.

Re: List Changes

Reply #33 – August 31, 2018, 08:02:19 am

Quote from: PaulP – on August 31, 2018, 07:32:46 am

I think it's an outlier, one of those 1 in a million stories, that won't work all that often.

Agreed, it's a great story of what you can achieve if you push yourself.

But the tactic is like whipping the slaves into gladiator shape.

Most won't come out like this!

Re: List Changes

Reply #34 – August 31, 2018, 09:47:08 am

Some seem to have missed a vital word at the top of this Glenn Manton article........"extract".

That, in combination with the word "book" indicates it is a very small sample of a much larger piece of work, and the fact that it is published via a media organisation usually means that it is edited down to the smallest size possible. I for one, will be keen to read the entire book. I've always had time for Manton and the work he's done outside football. There's many ex-footballers who do nothing worthwhile post career whatsoever......inane biased media commentary included.

Re: List Changes

Reply #35 – August 31, 2018, 10:34:35 am

Quote from: malo – on August 31, 2018, 09:47:08 am

Some seem to have missed a vital word at the top of this Glenn Manton article........"extract".

Exactly.

And a very small extract at that.

I,ve read the book and found it very good.

Re: List Changes

Reply #36 – August 31, 2018, 11:07:40 am

Quote from: flyboy77 – on August 30, 2018, 09:59:49 pm

oh, ok.

It's old school, but clearly worked for Manton....

I know a lot of psychs and they're scary f...ers, personally and professionally.

Almost en masse, so I'm dubious about your argument to be honest.

Wow, what an incredible sweeping generalisation! Suddenly you've obliterated those in the psychological caring professions. The psych professions are no different to any other... you get the spectrum of folks, though continued better training is weeding out the 'scary' ones as you put it. But the one thing that does unite most in the psych professions is a sincere and unrelenting desire to help others, often at their own expense... and rarely for monetary gain.

Re: List Changes

Reply #37 – August 31, 2018, 12:36:05 pm

Quote from: Baggers – on August 31, 2018, 11:07:40 am

Wow, what an incredible sweeping generalisation! Suddenly you've obliterated those in the psychological caring professions. The psych professions are no different to any other... you get the spectrum of folks, though continued better training is weeding out the 'scary' ones as you put it. But the one thing that does unite most in the psych professions is a sincere and unrelenting desire to help others, often at their own expense... and rarely for monetary gain.

Yes, I know a couple of psychologists and you’d struggle to find more caring, helpful folk.

Re: List Changes 2018

Reply #38 – August 31, 2018, 08:28:44 pm

Quote from: townsendcalling – on August 30, 2018, 05:18:20 pm

Gonski:

Mullet
O'Shea
Shaw
JMG

with ASOS retired

5 places down

So far.

Re: List Changes 2018

Reply #39 – August 31, 2018, 09:27:25 pm

There may not be a rookie list for much longer, but I'm not sure if it is 2019 or 2020 when it disappears. Also I wasn't sure about how the 'rookie draft' will work, so I kept a format I used last year:

Update #1   30/08/2018
Senior List:
We are not expected to make as many changes this year as we have in recent years, but I would be surprised if we didn’t make a few surprises in our list management. The first delistings occurred today, and I thank ‘Townsendcalling’ for bringing them to our attention:

2018 List:   40 players Present AFL Maximum

Confirmed Delistings:
[1]   Aaron Mullett – contract not renewed after one season.
[2]   Cam O’Shea – disappointing to delist him after one season, but he struggled in the seniors this year. He may be asked back to the Northern Blues, depending on what he decides he wants to do.

Confirmed Additions:
Nobody yet. But as the season hasn’t even finished yet, there is plenty of time for SOS and company to weave their magic. We are trying to recruit some players with experience between 22 and 27, preferably for the midfield, as we need to help Cripps.

Potential Delistings, Retirements or Out-trades:
[1]   Matthew Kreuzer – I wouldn’t want to lose this guy, but whether he plays on or not is going to depend on how his heart responds. A potential retirement.
[2]   Sam Kerridge – I expect Kerridge to remain, but others don’t feel the way I do. How the club feels about his ordinary disposal will determine his future. A potential trade or delisting, but not a high probability of either.
[3]   Sam Rowe – I expect Rowe to go on, but he had a poor finish to the year and his body is not getting any younger. A potential retirement, but not a high probability.
[4]   Jarrod Garlett – I expect that Garlett has a 2 year contract, but recent rumours about being disciplined and his incredible downturn in form leave him open. I hope he gets another go and can rediscover the form from early in the season, but the club knows more about his headspace than I do.
[5]   Matthew Lobbe – even with some decent games to finish the season, Lobbe really displayed his limitations as a modern ruckman. I can’t see him getting any better. If Kreuzer were 100%, I’d say he was in a lot of trouble, but we may keep him on. A potential retirement or delisting.
[6]   Nick Graham – I would be very surprised if Puss were still with us in 2019. He may be so good in the VFL, but he hasn’t been able to do it in the seniors. A potential trade or delisting.
[7]   Andrew Phillips – Phillips showed some pretty good signs at times this year, but he remains very fragile and can’t get any continuity into his football. The club needs the next great ruckman, not a patient in rehab. A potential delisting, although not a high probability.
[8]   Levi Casboult – Levi had a shocking year with injury and form and has been passed by Harry McKay, who looks to be getting better with each game. We may keep him for depth, especially as a back-up ruckman, but he will be trade bait. And other clubs could well be interested. A potential trade.

This could get us 10 changes in the senior list, although I doubt that will happen. Another 3 changes, on the other hand, would not be unexpected or reckless.
I did not include Thomas, Simpson or Wright either.

Potential Additions:
[1]   Ben Silvagni – doesn’t look like a superstar at this point, but he was good enough to get into the Vic Metro line-up. He has more height and natural athleticism than Jack has. He is a very high probability to be our last active pick as a F/S.

Nobody else is certain at this point, but we are very likely to be an active trader.

Rookie List:
Rookie players are able to play senior footy pretty much straight away, but I am not yet certain when the rookie list will be absorbed into the main list. So:

Confirmed Departures:
[1]   Matt Shaw – one not very impressive season lead to no further contract.
[2]   Jesse Glass-McCasker – too little too late, but he may be invited to play in the VFL if the club thinks he can make it as a forward. We’ve definitely given up on him as a future key defender.
[3]   Alex Silvagni – Retired after his body betrayed him once too often. He may be around the club in an off-field capacity or with the VFL, as he was highly regarded for what he could do off the field with our youngsters.

Confirmed Additions:
Nobody at this point.

Possible further Departures:
[1]   Kym LeBois – he has talent, but he is just so fragile. He has started to look better on the field, but is always injured and not producing enough. Possible delisting.

Cat B Rookies:
[1]   Cillian McDaid
Definitely remaining for 2019.
But we can recruit more Cat B rookies, just not from Ireland.

Potential Additions:
[1]   Liam Hickmott – very high probability that we will recruit this lad as his form at junior levels in WA has been outstanding. Not that prolific for WA at the Carnival, but I think he will be a certainty for a rookie spot. And his brother may well be included as well.

There are other rumours going around, but as delistings have just started, there is plenty to come in this area. Of those rumours, Ethan Penrith and Sam Fisher would have the highest probability of being selected by us for 2019. Both started slowly but really picked up as the season went on.

Conclusion:
I expect 5 changes in the senior list at the moment, although that is very early expectations. I expect Ben Silvagni to be drafted as a F/S. That leaves 4 other spots for draftees or trades. That is not a lot, so I do expect to see more action take place in the near future.
As for the rookie list, there appears to be 4 departures, but maybe 3 inclusions. That also doesn’t leave a lot of room to play. But with a senior list of 40 in 2018 we were at our maximum size under those set of rules.

Re: List Changes 2018

Reply #40 – September 13, 2018, 06:29:01 pm

Rules for rookies have changed, but the rookie list as such remains for 2019.

Update #2   13/09/2018
Senior List:
We are involved with so many trade talks at the moment that it is hard to keep abreast of them all. Some of them, I like. Others, I am less comfortable with. Not all of the trades will come to fruition: we simply do not appear to have the space on our list. It will be some time yet before these come to a head.

2018 List:   40 players Present AFL Maximum

Confirmed Delistings:
[1]   Aaron Mullett – contract not renewed
[2]   Cam O’Shea – contract not renewed.

Confirmed Additions:
Nobody yet. But the jungle drums are beating hard and Carlton appears to be in the race for pretty much everybody who appears to be available. Even with this there are no firm moves yet, although the most probable is a Free Agent selection for Fasolo of Collingwood. Not my favourite deal, but ... The next most likely is Mitch McGovern from Adelaide, who has stated that he no longer wants to be at the Crows.

Potential Delistings, Retirements or Out-trades:
[1]   Matthew Kreuzer – No word about how he is going. We may not find out about Kreuzer until training begins. A potential retirement.
[2]   Sam Kerridge – Kerridge has not been offered a contract at this time. It has been suggested that the club may rookie him, depending on how the trades go.
[3]   Jarrod Garlett – No mention of Garlett in dispatches since he went on for surgery. Not sure what is going to happen here.
[5]   Matthew Lobbe – Less likely to be moved on with such a large cloud over Kreuzer, but I can’t see him with us in 2020. A potential retirement or delisting.
[6]   Nick Graham – Puss has not been offered a contract for 2019 yet, and has been told his fate depends on the trade period. To be honest, I think Puss has the highest probability of being elsewhere in 2019 of all of the potential list changes.
[7]   Andrew Phillips – No word about Phillips has come out at all. A potential delisting, although not a high probability.
[8]   Levi Casboult – Levi’s name has been conspicuous by its absence in trade talks. No idea how this one is going to go. A potential trade, but not a high probability.
[9]   Matthew Wright – like Kerridge and Graham, his contract talks have been suspended until after the trades. He may be demoted to the rookie list.
[10]   Jed Lamb – I thought he would be unlikely to be under pressure with the way he finished the season, but his contract talks have also been put off until after the trades. He could be a rookie yet.

This could get us 12 changes in the senior list, although I doubt that will happen. Simpson, Wright and Rowe have a new contract for 2019.

Potential Additions:
[1]   Ben Silvagni – doesn’t look like a superstar at this point, but he was good enough to get into the Vic Metro line-up. He has more height and natural athleticism than Jack has. He is a very high probability to be our last active pick as a F/S.

Other names on the trade list include Shiel (GWS), Dunstan (St.K), Dahlhaus (WB), McGovern (Ad), Setterfield (GWS) and more! Fasolo is looking likely to be a Free Agent selection.

Rookie List:
Rookie players are able to play senior footy pretty much straight away, but I am not yet certain when the rookie list will be absorbed into the main list. So:

Confirmed Departures:
[1]   Matt Shaw – not offered a new contract
[2]   Jesse Glass-McCasker – not offered a new contract and looking less likely to be offered a rookie spot with 4 senior potentially becoming rookies.
[3]   Alex Silvagni – Retired. I haven't heard anything of his intentions for 2019 yet.

Confirmed Additions:
Nobody at this point. But Lamb, Wright, Kerridge and Graham are now in the picture.

Possible further Departures:
[1]   Kym LeBois – Looking more probable as the trades go on. Possible delisting.

Cat B Rookies:
[1]   Cillian McDaid
Definitely remaining for 2019.
But we can recruit more Cat B rookies, just not from Ireland.

Potential Additions:
[1]   Liam Hickmott – looking less likely, but stilla long way from not being on our horizon.
[2]   Ethan Penrith – looking less likely now with the senior players in the picture.
[3]   Sam Fisher – no word about Fisher as yet, but he has done everything he could do.
[4]   Jesse Palmer – looking less likely now.

Conclusion:
I expect changes. We cannot trade everybody in without some players going out. We will have pick #1, unless we trade it and pick #11 (Priority Pick). We then have 2 second rounders, then a 4th rounder. With the top echelon of this draft cohort looking very good, I simply cannot see us trading our way out of it. There is too much talent on offer. But the number of changes appear to be more significant than was expected not that long ago.

Re: List Changes 2018

Reply #41 – September 13, 2018, 07:43:57 pm

Crash, why is Jesse Palmer looking less likely now?

Re: List Changes 2018

Reply #42 – September 13, 2018, 08:14:48 pm

Quote from: Thryleon – on September 13, 2018, 07:43:57 pm

Crash, why is Jesse Palmer looking less likely now?

He did really well the other day at the VFL Awards. I would have thought that would do him some good. But then there was the message put out by Carlton suggested that some of our senior players may be put on the rookie list. If that happens, and it is looking likely, then we won't get a lot of picks in the draft without trading out some players or delisting guys I don't think we really want to flick. That makes it harder for both Fisher and Palmer.

The other thing is our interest in guys like Fasolo and McGovern. Fasolo and McGovern fill the role that Palmer would fill, and probably better. With out other forward options I cannot see us recruiting lots of guys for that role, especially with Matthew Wright to compete against.

I reckon that has put a lot of pressure on Garlett, Pickett and leBois as well. if we trade for a small forward, not likely, but not impossible, one of those three will go. Probably LeBois. (I really don't know what is going on with Garlett, even with him having an operation. He couldn't have too bad or we would have scheduled his surgery earlier.)

If the trades fall through, then Palmer really comes into the picture. But Fasolo and McGovern are looking like some of our more likely successes.

Re: List Changes 2018

Reply #43 – September 13, 2018, 08:29:05 pm

LeBois should go imo.

Clearly extremely injury prone even before hitting the big bodies of senior AFL footy.

Sorry, but next!

Re: List Changes 2018

Reply #44 – September 13, 2018, 09:18:17 pm

Quote from: flyboy77 – on September 13, 2018, 08:29:05 pm

LeBois should go imo.

Clearly extremely injury prone even before hitting the big bodies of senior AFL footy.

Sorry, but next!

I like how SOS operates, Mullet and Oshea showed little and he flicked them after 12 mths. If LeBois is shown the door Ill understand. If he is given another year, it means SOS thinks given a go fair go with injury, he has the tools to play AFL (and Ill understand that also).