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Topic: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney (Read 53167 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #195 –
Quote from: LP – on
Statistically we had a dominant midfield, despite struggling for wins we were right near the top of the tables for clearances and center breaks, yet MM applied the same handbrake game style that he'd applied at the Filth! :o

MM saw the boundary line arm-wrestle as the way to win finals, yet ironically he didn't win that many and when he did it was off the back of significant running power from guys like Daisy, Swan, Ball, Pendlebury, Didak, Matera, Mainwaring, Heady or Lewis!

It wasn't a bad game plan, but after a decade or more of being picked apart by opposition the chances of further success using it was at best slim.

I'm not sure the skills issue has much to do with a senior coach at AFL level, but he does need to wear the tactical criticism.

Didn't win that many finals? He holds the record lol.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #196 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Didn't win that many finals? He holds the record lol.

How many finals?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #199 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
27 off the top of my head.

He's coached more games than any other, but he isn't in the top dozen for premierships despite holding the record for most finals coached. That must leave him with one of the worst strike rates over the longest coaching career ever! Just looking at the total and ignoring the efficiency seems a little deceptive!

Perhaps his best trick was staying in the job with a game plan that gave you an otherwise minimal chance of ultimate success!

The numbers are a clear tell, more games, more finals, but less ultimate success per number of games played.

Lets put this another way, if MM had been coaching us through the 70s to the same statistical success level we would have won just a one and a bit flags!

A mate who is into car racing put it best, MM is the Alan Moffatt of VFL/AFL, some who is there at every race meeting so he's got a chance!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #200 –
Quote from: LP – on
He's coached more games than any other, but he isn't in the top dozen for premierships despite holding the record for most finals coached. That must leave him with one of the worst strike rates over the longest coaching career ever! Just looking at the total and ignoring the efficiency seems a little deceptive!

Perhaps his best trick was staying in the job with a game plan that gave you an otherwise minimal chance of ultimate success!

The numbers are a clear tell, more games, more finals, but less ultimate success per number of games played.

Lets put this another way, if MM had been coaching us through the 70s to the same statistical success level we would have won just a one and a bit flags!

You're talking horse crap now.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #201 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
You're talking horse crap now.

The numbers are all that count, opinion is the horse crap!

MM wasn't always a spud, but he was by the time he arrived at Carlton, that's just the way it is! MM was just as big of a spud when he arrived as Elliott was towards the end of his lingering Presidency! They did great things, back in the day in those circumstances.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #202 –
EB...agree on the drafting of quality users of the ball but have we missed the boat in the last 4 drafts? In 2015 we went for talls in Weitering, McKay, Curnow and then Cunningham with the last pick in the first 20. In 2016 it was SPS and Fisher (then Polson). In 2017 it was Dow and O'Brien. Walsh was the unanimous pick as number 1 last year but if there was a knock on him, it was his finishing.

I still get frustrated with blowing pick 10 on O'Brien. I had the misfortune to attend the game against Brisbane last year at the Gabba and I lost count of the number of times he kicked it STRAIGHT to an opponent. He did much the same on the weekend apart from one pass that hit Casboult. The club had it's eyes on Tim Kelly but he was gone by the time our next pick came....hindsight is wonderful in AFL Drafts but he was one we missed (along with a few other clubs) badly.

As an aside, talked about top-up players prior to this season and in a number of posts I said the club should be looking at Jye Bolton from Claremont.....first weekend of WAFL games just gone and another BOG for Claremont. I'd be staggered if he's not picked up as part of this supplemental/mid-season draft.

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #203 –
Quote from: WASurfer – on
EB...agree on the drafting of quality users of the ball but have we missed the boat in the last 4 drafts? In 2015 we went for talls in Weitering, McKay, Curnow and then Cunningham with the last pick in the first 20. In 2016 it was SPS and Fisher (then Polson). In 2017 it was Dow and O'Brien. Walsh was the unanimous pick as number 1 last year but if there was a knock on him, it was his finishing.

I still get frustrated with blowing pick 10 on O'Brien. I had the misfortune to attend the game against Brisbane last year at the Gabba and I lost count of the number of times he kicked it STRAIGHT to an opponent. He did much the same on the weekend apart from one pass that hit Casboult. The club had it's eyes on Tim Kelly but he was gone by the time our next pick came....hindsight is wonderful in AFL Drafts but he was one we missed (along with a few other clubs) badly.

As an aside, talked about top-up players prior to this season and in a number of posts I said the club should be looking at Jye Bolton from Claremont.....first weekend of WAFL games just gone and another BOG for Claremont. I'd be staggered if he's not picked up as part of this supplemental/mid-season draft.

It's not that simple, Kelly has guys like Hawkins, Ablett Jnr and Dangerfield playing forward and running in good patterns to the right positions. It makes space which makes the target easier to hit without a kick being intercepted. Our KPFs just aren't doing our mids any favors, which means in our team you have to be better than average by foot just to get an average result.

One example of this is McKay and Casboult closing up space at the weekend by pressing too far up the field and leaving all the free space behind them! So what happens, the mids kick the ball long to free space but the Swans defenders are first back onto the ball! It makes the mid look bad, but if the KPF has closed up the space in front of him that will happen 90% of the time! Look at the flip side, start McKay or Casboult back and the mid drops the ball in the space in front of them and the KPF then gets a run at a contested mark, it's that simple.

So why doesn't it happen, McKay and Casboult didn't work hard enough, on their 2nd or 3rd efforts they often defaulted to shallow runs and so no space is created in front of them. They have to run deeper on those repeat leads and that will spread defenders and create space.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #204 –
Quote from: WASurfer – on
EB...agree on the drafting of quality users of the ball but have we missed the boat in the last 4 drafts? In 2015 we went for talls in Weitering, McKay, Curnow and then Cunningham with the last pick in the first 20. In 2016 it was SPS and Fisher (then Polson). In 2017 it was Dow and O'Brien. Walsh was the unanimous pick as number 1 last year but if there was a knock on him, it was his finishing.

I still get frustrated with blowing pick 10 on O'Brien. I had the misfortune to attend the game against Brisbane last year at the Gabba and I lost count of the number of times he kicked it STRAIGHT to an opponent. He did much the same on the weekend apart from one pass that hit Casboult. The club had it's eyes on Tim Kelly but he was gone by the time our next pick came....hindsight is wonderful in AFL Drafts but he was one we missed (along with a few other clubs) badly.

As an aside, talked about top-up players prior to this season and in a number of posts I said the club should be looking at Jye Bolton from Claremont.....first weekend of WAFL games just gone and another BOG for Claremont. I'd be staggered if he's not picked up as part of this supplemental/mid-season draft.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. O'Brien vs Kelly can't be judged right now - not by a long long way.

O'Brien looks to be in the middle of some pretty solid second year blues. His running ability is elite and his ball use is generally pretty good. He's light though and will take some time.

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #205 –
And lacks intensity at the contest and lacking when it gets physical.  
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #206 –
Jeza...second year blues implies a pretty good first year and I wouldn't have said his debut year was that good. My point is that we seem to be recruiting blokes who can't kick properly. We seem to get slaughtered when we turn it over...which happens a lot.

There's no easy answers and I appreciate that, but like most, the frustration seems to be just never ending and we are almost totally reliant on Cripps at the moment and that's not healthy for him or the team. Even Nic Newman...I was rapt to get him in as I thought his long, penetrating kicking would be handy...but even his disposal is all over the shop. I know we miss Williamson but the fact is he's played about 15 games all up and we don't have anyone in the backline who you'd back in to run with it and hit a target up the field. Then we have midfielders who can't hit a target.

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #207 –
Quote from: WASurfer – on
Jeza...second year blues implies a pretty good first year and I wouldn't have said his debut year was that good. My point is that we seem to be recruiting blokes who can't kick properly. We seem to get slaughtered when we turn it over...which happens a lot.

There's no easy answers and I appreciate that, but like most, the frustration seems to be just never ending and we are almost totally reliant on Cripps at the moment and that's not healthy for him or the team. Even Nic Newman...I was rapt to get him in as I thought his long, penetrating kicking would be handy...but even his disposal is all over the shop. I know we miss Williamson but the fact is he's played about 15 games all up and we don't have anyone in the backline who you'd back in to run with it and hit a target up the field. Then we have midfielders who can't hit a target.

+1

Although, there is merit in what LP is saying.  How can you judge how well blokes hit targets by foot, when the only options they have are difficult ones, and more often than not they are put under extreme pressure from the receive??

We have been cooking teamates all season with poor choices of disposal which simply creates a chain of crappy disposals.  How many times has anyone stated we chose the right option there??  I think I saw one occasion where Cripps pulled his kick short which resulted in a kick to a leading forward on saturday.  Beyond that, it was always to contests, or on top of someones head forcing them to take a contest or halve a contest.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #208 –
Hmm, I think the contrast is this, and I hate to write this because I can't stand KPPs who stage for free kicks, Jack Riewoldt.

McKay, Casboult and McGovern fans need to watch Jack Riewoldt work as a contrast, I also think he is miles ahead of his cousin as an effective KPF.

Jack Reiwoldt works deep repeat leads, often back across the top of the square then hard up at the ball carrier through the guts or out to the HFF. If he doesn't get the ball kicked to him he doesn't fold back dragging defenders with him, he keeps going and arcs across the contest outside F50 leaving and creating space for Nthmond's small forwards to work in. He also often sets up to be in the zone to mark the escape kick. I think he's even ahead of Franklin in this regard, Buddy tends to trail back into the contest, but of course Buddy can because he's also effective as a crumbing forward.

I'd thought that tete-a-tete between Simmo, Cripps and sMurph in the last quarter was related to Cripps not being like Riewoldt. Luckily Ed got a 50m penalty and the chance of the Swans running a missed scoring attempt out of our F50 evaporated. But Simmo and sMuprh were into Cripps and Setterfield to get across to the flanks and get the zones setup early in case Ed missed. They were driving the effort to lock the ball inside our F50 if a goal wasn't scored.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Parlay: AFL 2019 Rd 3: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #209 –
FMD, some Carlton players other than Cripps polled an AFLCA vote!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"