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Topic: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast (Read 30218 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Barbs – on
Interesting stat from from today’s Gold Coast v Dogs match. The suns wons the hitouts 71 - 16.

Any chance Kreuzer will be ready?

I'll take it step further...

Bulldogs, despite that, won the centre clearances 14-8 and overall 44-30. So much for the big tapout advantage. Just have the mids in the centre square ready.

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #19 –
Quote from: laj – on
I'll take it step further...

Bulldogs, despite that, won the centre clearances 14-8 and overall 44-30. So much for the big tapout advantage. Just have the mids in the centre square ready.

Just further evidence taps are pointless stats, and our main problem in the absence of SpecialK is our ruck ineffectiveness around the ground.

It's not the hitouts that sway the result, it's the 2nd and 3rd efforts, or the absence of them.

You can lose the tap and win the clearances, through body positioning, blocks, second efforts, etc., etc..
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #20 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Tim English 15
Josh Schache 1

Jarrod Witts 52
Peter Wright 19
Witts has developed into a good tap ruckman, something I never expected when I saw him at Collingwood. He is our biggest danger at the weekend, as he can give his mids an overwhelming advantage in the middle of the ground. Granted that not all of his taps are to advantage, but the Dogs do have a very solid midfield crew. We badly need 4 quarters from our mids other than just Cripps and Walsh.

At this point I would be looking for ruck options. Having one for this game would be a disaster, a 'point source error'. How fit Kreuzer is, is going to be the question of the week.

Polson and Gibbons need to go back to the VFL and get their confidence back. A couple of big possession games and we can try one of them again.
Marchbank was clearly underdone. Whether we play him in the seniors this week is going to depend on the match-ups. Whether he plays seniors of VFL he will be better for the run.
Lochie O'Brien is another who will be under pressure. His game was disappointing. he needs t get a few 30+ possessions games in the VFL. It isn't impossible. However, he has certainly not come along as we had  hoped and is looking to be a possible mistake for our pick 10 selection.
Setterfield disappointed last weekend, but his fitness after such a long break is understandably ordinary. I'd be willing to persevere with his for a little while yet. But I would like to see him step up, as he does have a lot of what we need.

Who to bring in is an interesting question also: Jack Silvagni and Kennedy are reasonably obvious. They don't improve our pace, but they have bigger, stronger bodies (I can't believe I am writing that about Jack, who needs more work in this area, but when compared to...) and can help in the middle. Jack can also go forward.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #21 –
Not playing Kennedy and Jack sos is a mistake currently.   We need to work out if they're worth persisting with at afl level.

Fasolo is the same.  Polson, garlett and Gibbons too.

We wont find out anything about these guys playing in the vfl.  Playing marchbank under done was the height of stupidity as he is a premium player and has a history of breaking down.  Get him fit.  Now McGovern is under done too.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
We wont find out anything about these guys playing in the vfl.  Playing marchbank under done was the height of stupidity as he is a premium player and has a history of breaking down.

I'm not sure about that, to be a premium player I would think the starting point is reliability and he is at best unreliable, even ignoring his poor ball use and decision making.

Really, at the weekend, I thought we actually lost something by having Marchbank play the intercept and ball distributer roll instead of Weitering. In terms of distributing the footy Weitering is so far ahead of Marchbank it's not even worth discussing! So I would have flipped those roles and have Marchbank being the 3rd man up to hopefully feed Weitering with distribution opportunities.

It was just another rob Peter to pay Paul scenario, like rucking McKay!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #23 –
At the moment, for other clubs it's just worry about stopping Cripps or reducing his influence. I doubt there's too many others that opposition coaches are worried about. And yet for us, it's who do we tag or run with or try and stop and it'll be the same this week. Witts will slaughter us in the ruck and give them first use of it. Who plays a role on Sexton...a very dangerous player as is Jack Martin. Lukosius hasn't done much yet but this'll probably be the week he gets a a run on. If we're relying on Ed Curnow to backup with another 3 or 4 this week then we're in big trouble. With no Charlie Curnow and McGovern unlikely, we simply can't be playing McKay up the ground. If Kreuzer is fit, bring him to ruck with Lobbe and play Levi up forward as well. There's no one else with pace to bring in anyway as I see it.
 

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #24 –
Quote from: LP – on
I'm not sure about that, to be a premium player I would think the starting point is reliability and he is at best unreliable, even ignoring his poor ball use and decision making.
  Marchbank is a potential game winner.  He was very good against the Tigers in round 1 last season.  Hence his premium status.  The fact that we play him underdone (every single time he has returned from injury thus far) is the only reason he is unreliable because he gets hurt again.

Quote
Really, at the weekend, I thought we actually lost something by having Marchbank play the intercept and ball distributer roll instead of Weitering. In terms of distributing the footy Weitering is so far ahead of Marchbank it's not even worth discussing! So I would have flipped those roles and have Marchbank being the 3rd man up to hopefully feed Weitering with distribution opportunities.

It was just another rob Peter to pay Paul scenario, like rucking McKay!

Marchbank shouldnt have played EOS on saturday.  We dropped a player learning the caper but was otherwise fit in Garlett, only to play a bloke returning from injury.  This is the same old, same old for us, we do it every single time in an effort to ensure injured players stay injured (see Mitch McGovern and his "hamstring" injuries which will be linked to his pre season back injury).

Leave your ruck complaints out of it.  We have no fit ruckmen.  EOS.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
  Marchbank is a potential game winner.  He was very good against the Tigers in round 1 last season.  Hence his premium status.  The fact that we play him underdone (every single time he has returned from injury thus far) is the only reason he is unreliable because he gets hurt again.

Marchbank shouldnt have played EOS on saturday.  We dropped a player learning the caper but was otherwise fit in Garlett, only to play a bloke returning from injury.  This is the same old, same old for us, we do it every single time in an effort to ensure injured players stay injured (see Mitch McGovern and his "hamstring" injuries which will be linked to his pre season back injury).

Leave your ruck complaints out of it.  We have no fit ruckmen.  EOS.

It's all the same Thry, we rob Peter to pay Paul, and we've been doing it for a decade or more!

Surely there are ways to fix things, or at least attempt to fix things, without breaking what already works! (Like our crap game plan in 2018, designed to fix what the AFL and AFL Media said was bad!)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #26 –
Quote from: LP – on
It's all the same Thry, we rob Peter to pay Paul, and we've been doing it for a decade or more!

Surely there are ways to fix things, or at least attempt to fix things, without breaking what already works! (Like our crap game plan in 2018, designed to fix what the AFL and AFL Media said was bad!)

IMHO, the organisations that do this are forced to.

We are simply a majority developing list of players.  We cannot afford to have any of our top liners injured and they are often injured or playing under duress.  It's partly what makes an injury to us so much worse.  When Docherty broke down our chances of winning games were reduced by 50% immediately, simply because he is that important to our team.  When it became apparent that Kreuzer was struggling to get on the park, they reduced again by another 50%.  This isnt the case for a lot of teams but using Richmond as an example, look at how they have fared by simply having Martin playing much worse than he did over the last two years, Rance go down with a knee injury, and now Riewoldt with the wrist injury?  They are compounding and Richmond have now been rendered uncompetitive missing Bachar Houli, and Josh Caddy too.  They only beat us because we were similarly reduced.  Any other side would have given them a working over in round 1.    They wont win again this week either as the wheels are well and truly falling off now.  We are possibly the only side in the competition with a similar number of under done players and I am willing to bet that they will finish bottom 4 if things dont start changing for them.  They were playing on a lot of hard work and confidence, and are still a mentally fragile bunch.

We are stuck robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Our plight is exemplified by our ruck options.  Our first choice Kreuzer is injured (again).  Our Second choice Phillips is injured (again), our third choice (Lobbe) looks out of his depth, and is only on a list for that reason else he might have retired by now, our fourth choice a youngster (de Koning) is injured, and because Charlie Curnow is injured we are using our 5th choice (Casboult) as an alternative for both ruck and forward in case Lobbe is getting smashed and that means we are having to use our 6th choice (McKay) as another ruck rotation even though we need him in the forwardline, because Curnow is missing.

Thats before we even start talking about Docherty going missing.  Have a look at how debilitating the injuries to Kreuzer and Curnow are to our options.  They simply leave us undermannned.  Lets not pretend that Kreuzer's ruck work is the reason why we choose him.  He is good enough to break even in the ruck, its his presence after that makes him our first choice.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #27 –
I'd assert that Phillips and Lobbe suffer because we tried to solo ruck them against superior opponents, but in tandem they may have delivered us a better result.

As much as I like McKay long term, ignoring his contested marking stats, Phillips might almost be as effective resting inside F50 yet be a far superior ruck rotation.

If we are going to rob Peter to pay Paul, to me that makes better sense, a Lose/Win seems better than a Lose/Lose!

btw., Don't take my debate wrongly, I think there are short term and long term considerations. I just not sold on burning the short term for the long term benefit, I don't think the long term benefit is anywhere near certain enough to fully scorch the present.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #28 –
Quote from: LP – on
I'd assert that Phillips and Lobbe suffer because we tried to solo ruck them against superior opponents, but in tandem they may have delivered us a better result.

As much as I like McKay long term, ignoring his contested marking stats, Phillips might almost be as effective resting inside F50 yet be a far superior ruck rotation.

If we are going to rob Peter to pay Paul, to me that makes better sense, a Lose/Win seems better than a Lose/Lose!

btw., Don't take my debate wrongly, I think there are short term and long term considerations. I just not sold on burning the short term for the long term benefit, I don't think the long term benefit is anywhere near certain enough to fully scorch the present.

I dont know about that.  Lobbe and Phillips are one trick ponies from where I sit, and they are only passable at that trick.  I dont think they can play as forwards, and any attempt to do so would halve our effectiveness.

This is where Rowe might have been a better option  to keep.

Anyway, I digress.  Without Kreuzer we are simply towelled up too much in the ruck.  Sinclair smashed us by himself on saturday with very little support.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre-Game Possibilities: AFL Rd 4: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #29 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Anyway, I digress.  Without Kreuzer we are simply towelled up too much in the ruck.  Sinclair smashed us by himself on saturday with very little support.

Yet Sinclair hardly got an AFLCA vote, odd isn't it?

From where I sit, very early on Sinclair set the tone that the rest of the Swans followed, he was most uncompromising towards our players!

Further, I'm gob-smacked Henney got 10 votes, that is surely coaches taking the piss! You could coin toss the difference between Ed and Henney on the day, and neither deserved 10 votes. I'd have rated Zac Jones and Cripps someway ahead of both!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"