Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

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Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #300 – April 29, 2019, 05:49:17 pm

Quote from: LP – on April 29, 2019, 05:39:53 pm

We've not a small forward in the club that can match Shiels effectiveness.

Yet, Shiels is the sort of player that will get pushed out by the Dawks when they try to take on other big trade targets, so please Carlton keep your ear to the ground.

I've read around the traps that he was widely tipped to be the 2019 captain, but Stratton got the job. They must rate him highly. But then again, the Hawks don't fool around. Ask Lewis, Mitchell and Hodge.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #301 – April 29, 2019, 06:43:25 pm

Quote from: Thryleon – on April 29, 2019, 03:03:22 pm

Nah they're ok. Its alarmist to think otherwise. They only have 9 players on their senior list over 30, of which at least 3 didn't play against us yesterday and the ones that did have a year or two left.

Their best player (shiels) yesterday is only 28.

By contrast two of our thirty plus year olds broke down mid game yesterday and we went from chocolates to boiled lollies.

Including McEvoy the number is 10 - he's 30 in July.

problem is all the old guard (and throw in Breust 29 in November) - are their best players. Shiels their best? Not.

Burgoyne, Roughy, Poppy, Birchall, Frawley, Henderson, Smith, Stratton, McEvoy.

That's the guts of their best (yeah, yeah there's O'Meara, Hardwick, Mitchell, Shiels, Sicily)

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #302 – April 29, 2019, 07:19:57 pm

Quote from: Baggers – on April 29, 2019, 11:02:12 am

Are you still in Canberra? Work is taking me there in a few weeks... love to catch up for a cuppa.

Would love to catch up, but I'm only really available after about 2pm most days. When are you here?

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #303 – April 29, 2019, 07:34:34 pm

It is now over 24 hours since we lost and I can feel that it is time to put in my 2 cents worth.
[1] I have rarely felt so bad about a loss. There was so much anger ... But it doesn't matter. No matter how angry or frustrated I may get, the game is over and we were on the wrong side of it.

[2] For so much of the game there was so much positive. We lose 3 of our best and still come back brilliantly in the last few minutes, only to be beaten by about a second.
So, should I ignore those really good things? I can't and I won't.
[3] Picking up the opponents' best mid makes so much sense to me. They managed to keep Cripps down, but certainly not out, by means fair and foul. Keeping O'Meara down to 20 touches and we win easily.
[4] With Cripps 'controlled', things boded poorly, and yet our midfield worked really well. Our clearance work was brilliant. It would have been even better had Kreuzer not tired. He was brilliant in the first quarter and gave McEvoy a bath. By the end McEvoy was a big reason in their comeback. That wouldn't have happened with a fully fit Kreuzer. But only having the one ruckman only works when he can see out the whole game.
[5] Our mids were really solid for so much of the game, but when they slowed down so many others also fell out of the game. Jack was brilliant in the first half, but didn't get any opportunities after half time. Cunners was the same.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #304 – April 29, 2019, 07:52:23 pm

I see us playing better football every week. Our ball movement at times is proper top notch now, and is a pleasure to watch. The important thing is that we are doing everything better for longer this season than last.

Losing sucks. Losing so often sucks more. Losing from 6 goals up sucks balls. The boys are learning their lessons the hard way. Lesson for this week - taking the foot off the pedal with a 5 goal lead at half time is a bad idea.

I don't know if Bolts is a very good match day coach yet, but I think he'll also learn from this loss (as if he needs more experience at that). Is his coaching any good? Based on 10 of the last 12 quarters i've watched i reckon he's got the boys playing some really good footy. There's still something missing though - is it the players or the coach who aren't quite there yet? There were some rotten coach killer moments that have already been mentioned on here, but something also went astray with their game plan after half time.

I still give Bolts to the end of the year before getting out the pitch forks. The list has been built, but it is still being developed. We need more wins, no doubt about it, and still think we can get to 6 or 8 for the season. That would make me happy, and unless the wheels fall off, we'll get them.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #305 – April 29, 2019, 07:55:14 pm

Quote from: Tragic – on April 29, 2019, 07:52:23 pm

I see us playing better football every week. Our ball movement at times is proper top notch now, and is a pleasure to watch. The important thing is that we are doing everything better for longer this season than last.

Losing sucks. Losing so often sucks more. Losing from 6 goals up sucks balls. The boys are learning their lessons the hard way. Lesson for this week - taking the foot off the pedal with a 5 goal lead at half time is a bad idea.

I don't know if Bolts is a very good match day coach yet, but I think he'll also learn from this loss (as if he needs more experience at that). Is his coaching any good? Based on 10 of the last 12 quarters i've watched i reckon he's got the boys playing some really good footy. There's still something missing though - is it the players or the coach who aren't quite there yet? There were some rotten coach killer moments that have already been mentioned on here, but something also went astray with their game plan after half time.

I still give Bolts to the end of the year before getting out the pitch forks. The list has been built, but it is still being developed. We need more wins, no doubt about it, and still think we can get to 6 or 8 for the season. That would make me happy, and unless the wheels fall off, we'll get them.

Well said, captures my thoughts exactly

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #306 – April 29, 2019, 07:57:38 pm

Quote from: flyboy77 – on April 29, 2019, 06:43:25 pm

Including McEvoy the number is 10 - he's 30 in July.

problem is all the old guard (and throw in Breust 29 in November) - are their best players. Shiels their best? Not.

Burgoyne, Roughy, Poppy, Birchall, Frawley, Henderson, Smith, Stratton, McEvoy.

That's the guts of their best (yeah, yeah there's O'Meara, Hardwick, Mitchell, Shiels, Sicily)

29 in November....

That means he'll be 29 in season 2020 and wont play a match aged 30 until 2021.

I told you that they're better than everyone thinks and they had a brownlow medallist out. Big boy at age 30 (not yet) will have 3 years of footy left in him minimum and they have ceglar waiting to play.

The advantage they have is they have a core of players that have been setting standards since they started winning flags 11 years ago.

That's consistency of method. Consistency of approach, consistency of standards, consistency of culture, consistency of message, consistency of game plan, consistency of personnel....

They have a decent layer of young talent that did their job against us, and they'll find a few more for next year. They didn't play a prelim for nothing last year.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #307 – April 29, 2019, 08:39:18 pm

Quote from: Micky0 – on April 28, 2019, 10:03:43 pm

BT highlighted how that hawk moved closer and to a better angle while Eleni was sorting our player out - what are the other umps watching and Murphy was watching him - Why didn’t he say something? I’m so ducking sick of watching teams like these pricks with their sniper coach, cheating and stepping forward or moving to better angles or all those little things, and we just sit there and watch it happen. So bloody frustarting! Where are our whinging players to question things?!

Oblivious umpire + cheating Chad = impossible angle becomes possible + goal.
Wingard took 3 - 4 steps to widen the angle. I was trying to let the ump know but the telly's long range broadcast wasn't working.

I was also p"&÷sed about Roughy taking a flying leap in the goal square that was unreasonable yet allowed. Ended in another goal.
And how many times did H end up flat on the deck after being blocked/pushed in the marking contest.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #308 – April 29, 2019, 08:44:17 pm

Quote from: PaulP – on April 29, 2019, 05:49:17 pm

I've read around the traps that he was widely tipped to be the 2019 captain, but Stratton got the job. They must rate him highly. But then again, the Hawks don't fool around. Ask Lewis, Mitchell and Hodge.

Do the Hawks players vote on the captain?..Stratton is very popular I believe.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #309 – April 29, 2019, 08:58:36 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on April 29, 2019, 08:44:17 pm

Do the Hawks players vote on the captain?..Stratton is very popular I believe.

Not sure Elwood. I'd be pretty curious to know myself.

I doubt we'd be able to land Shiels. Contracted to the end of 2022. Would be a very good addition.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #310 – April 29, 2019, 09:09:39 pm

Quote from: PaulP – on April 29, 2019, 09:58:48 am

I've had this discussion with you before. Your ideas on leadership are based on what you can see, what is visible to you on field, i.e big blokes throwing their weight around.

Thanks for filling me in on that.
Clearly you have a very good education and high IQ.

I don’t think you represent my beliefs on leadership at all.

I just don’t think someone who doesn’t perform the “one percenters” or team acts is ever going to be a strong leader. Joel Selwood is not a big guy but easily one of the best leaders in the AFL.

I accept the game can be brutal, it’s a pity you can’t.
You often remark that it is unnecessary but the history of recently successful teams suggest otherwise.
That doesn’t mean thuggery, just brutally physical games.

Leaders that can’t handle that always get exposed.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #311 – April 29, 2019, 09:18:34 pm

While some are still feeling sore about the narrow loss, you may get something out of this fun fact.

13,12 & now 10. That’s the free kicks Carlton have received in the last 3 weeks. Opponents have had 20, 22 & 19, respectively.

We're on target for the reverse bulldogs effect to take hold

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 6: Carlton vs. Hawthorn

Reply #312 – April 29, 2019, 09:20:51 pm

Quote from: LoveNavy – on April 29, 2019, 09:18:34 pm

While some are still feeling sore about the narrow loss, you may get something out of this fun fact.

13,12 & now 10. That’s the free kicks Carlton have received in the last 3 weeks. Opponents have had 20, 22 & 19, respectively.

We're on target for the reverse bulldogs effect to take hold

We're pretty undisciplined eh